Tasers are not magic. And it takes 21 rounds to drop the bad guy after he stabs an officer.

[Fledermaus]

After shots were fired the guy was still grasping the female officer and had to be kicked away.

 

[Artymoon]

After shots were fired the guy was still grasping the female officer and had to be kicked away.

Definitely a case for high capacity magazines.

 

[Helix]

i'm not going to get into the typical gun debate, as it always goes nowhere. however, i will say that i'm somewhat amazed that incapacitating tranquilizers aren't in more widespread use. i feel like if you had a room full of anesthesiologists, this problem could be addressed relatively quickly.

 

[Fledermaus]

i'm not going to get into the typical gun debate, as it always goes nowhere. however, i will say that i'm somewhat amazed that incapacitating tranquilizers aren't in more widespread use. i feel like if you had a room full of anesthesiologists, this problem could be addressed relatively quickly.

The issue with that is the possible interactions with drugs already in the system... One or two heart stoppages and the cops will be murderers because they should have known the tranq would have killed them.

 

[Helix]

The issue with that is the possible interactions with drugs already in the system... One or two heart stoppages and the cops will be murderers because they should have known the tranq would have killed them.

and bullets don't do that? i'd take the risk of reversing medication over metal tearing up organs / causing death by exsanguination. i don't see this as an unsolvable problem.

 

[Fledermaus]

and bullets don't do that? i'd take the risk of reversing medication over metal tearing up organs / causing death by exsanguination. i don't see this as an unsolvable problem.

Bullets should be a last resort.

And here is the problem.

There is no "less than lethal" weapon that hasn't been demonized for being excessive force. And "less then lethal" have been lethal.

Since the majority of these psycho Jason type killers are already on drug I see huge problems getting the mix right.... That and the lag between getting gazorped and falling down.

 

[Helix]

Bullets should be a last resort.

And here is the problem.

There is no "less than lethal" weapon that hasn't been demonized for being excessive force. And "less then lethal" have been lethal.

Since the majority of these psycho Jason type killers are already on drug I see huge problems getting the mix right.... That and the lag between getting gazorped and falling down.

i think that it's a solvable problem. there were people at one point who thought that we couldn't get from NY to California in under half a year, and now it takes like seven hours by plane. in the same time, humankind has made it to the moon and back on multiple occasions. figuring out non-lethal instant and reversible incapacitation seems doable. if that was assigned to me as my priority project, i know what my first steps would be.

 

[Drowning Man]

IF an officer is going to fire their weapon, they are going to shoot to kill. Police work isn't the movies or some old western where you shoot the guy's weapon our of his hand. If you're going to shoot someone....you shoot to kill.

That said, it seems like officers love to shoot people who are already out. Some poor bastard is in death throws and they're like, "STOP MOVING!" and they unload another couple of magazines into him. That kind of bullshit should be treated the same way as when an officer has someone handcuffed on the ground, and they kick him in the head.

 

[Fledermaus]

i think that it's a solvable problem. there were people at one point who thought that we couldn't get from NY to California in under half a year, and now it takes like seven hours by plane. in the same time, humankind has made it to the moon and back on multiple occasions. figuring out non-lethal instant and reversible incapacitation seems doable. if that was assigned to me as my priority project, i know what my first steps would be.

I wish the tranqs will work as you hope in the future.

 

[Fledermaus]

IF an officer is going to fire their weapon, they are going to shoot to kill. Police work isn't the movies or some old western where you shoot the guy's weapon our of his hand. If you're going to shoot someone....you shoot to kill.

That said, it seems like officers love to shoot people who are already out. Some poor bastard is in death throws and they're like, "STOP MOVING!" and they unload another couple of magazines into him. That kind of bullshit should be treated the same way as when an officer has someone handcuffed on the ground, and they kick him in the head.

Irrelevant to this event.

21 rounds. And the bad guy kept coming.

 

[Helix]

I wish the tranqs will work as you hope in the future.

i have at least one idea, but i would want a room full of anesthesiologists on my team to tell me why it can't work before i would even recommend it. there has to be something that works more effectively and reversibly than flying chunks of lead.

 

[Fledermaus]

i have at least one idea, but i would want a room full of anesthesiologists on my team to tell me why it can't work before i would even recommend it. there has to be something that works more effectively and reversibly than flying chunks of lead.

Police are always trying different methods....

One idea was using bolas like the Argentines do.

Another was a sticky spray to immobilize.

CS/CN gas.

Pepper spray.

Mace.

Rubber bullets.

Net guns.

I guarantee if a viable tranq is developed it will sell like hot cakes to the LAPD.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

i have at least one idea, but i would want a room full of anesthesiologists on my team to tell me why it can't work before i would even recommend it.

You don't need "a room full of anesthesiologists." I can tell you right now this is unlikely to work. Tranquilizing agents are carefully dosed based on many factors, including body mass. Wide variability in body mass means your tranquilizers are either so underpowered as to be useless, or so overpowered that lethality is a concern. There are also allergic reaction and drug interaction concerns.

there has to be something that works more effectively and reversibly than flying chunks of lead.

What does "more effectively" look like?

 

[Helix]

You don't need "a room full of anesthesiologists." I can tell you right now this is unlikely to work. Tranquilizing agents are carefully dosed based on many factors, including body mass. Wide variability in body mass means your tranquilizers are either so underpowered as to be useless, or so overpowered that lethality is a concern. There are also allergic reaction and drug interaction concerns.


What does "more effectively" look like?

a tranquilizer instead of flying chunks of lead. it's only hard to envision that if one makes it hard.

and yeah, i would definitely want a room full of trained anesthesiologists if i were to be assigned this project. it's good to consult people who have more knowledge than you do when tackling something complex like this.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

a tranquilizer instead of flying chunks of lead. it's only hard to envision that if one makes it hard.

You utterly failed to answer the question. What does "more effectively" look like when comparing your tranquilizer method to the thrown lead method? What outcome would lead to you labeling tranquilizers as "more effective" than lead?

and yeah, i would definitely want a room full of trained anesthesiologists if i were to be assigned this project. it's good to consult people who have more knowledge than you do when tackling something complex like this.

And I'm telling you you don't need them. In order to drop a 300+-pound man, the tranquilizers would have to be so loaded as to be almost certainly lethal to a 115-lb woman. I would also challenge you to come up with a drug that is nearly-instantaneously effective for any person the way lead to the brain or heart/aorta is.

 

[Individual]

After shots were fired the guy was still grasping the female officer and had to be kicked away.

It was a good shoot. End of story.

 

[bomberfox]

Bullets should be a last resort.

And here is the problem.

There is no "less than lethal" weapon that hasn't been demonized for being excessive force. And "less then lethal" have been lethal.

Since the majority of these psycho Jason type killers are already on drug I see huge problems getting the mix right.... That and the lag between getting gazorped and falling down.

Ummm since cops have been known to aim at people’s eyes and head with rubber bullets i can see why.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Looks like a good shoot to me.