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Tariffs Hit SC hard

God that is so wrong that WRONG is really the only response it deserves. Not to mention that WHEN YOU ASSEMBLE, you are closer to your end market and you control your end market. Why do you think China is trying to push US and European ASSEMBLY out of China.....They have a huge and growing end market and they want to control it just like companies want to try to control our end market here.

Why do you think I have constantly opposed that STUPID Foxconn plant going up in Wisconsin. One reason, Foxconn is a Chinese company that assembles. Foxconn is partially China's effort to attack our end markets directly. Of course Trump supports that plant.

Foxconn is Taiwanese, not Chinese. It has major operations in China
 
Tariffs shut this plant down in less than 6 months? Believing that's true isn't just irrational, it's moronic.

Probably operating on the edge of being barely profitable before the tariffs, with the tariffs, no profit at all and no expectation of profits in the near future. It could certainly not wait on the possible end of tariffs or alternate sources of parts to be available. So the owner/s shut down before having to put good money after bad
 
Foxconn is Taiwanese, not Chinese. It has major operations in China

True but their taiwan operations are now dwarfed by China operations. Plus their relationships, much more important in China business than they are in US business are all focused in the Chinese mainland. Agents represent the customer to suppliers in China more than agents represent suppliers to customers. So just to be a customer in China Industry you have to have an agent that is closely associated with the target suppliers AND you have to have agents representing you as a supplier to other customers.

At any rate you are paying out percentages all over the place and its no wonder that your IP is at risk in such an environment.

You can't even find Foxconn's taiwan employment numbers any longer as they are under some political pressure for the relative size of what is left of the taiwan operations.
 
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True but their taiwan operations are now dwarfed by China operations. Plus their relationships, much more important in China business than they are in US business are all focused in the Chinese mainland. Agents represent the customer to suppliers in China more than agents represent suppliers to customers. So just to be a customer in China Industry you have to have an agent that is closely associated with the target suppliers where you want to do business...sort of the exact opposite of the US business model.

You can't even find Foxconn's taiwan employment numbers any longer as they are under some political pressure for what is left of the taiwan operations.

I expect Taiwan just contains the corporate office and no contract manufacturing (or very little) sites left.
 
Most jobs left under Bush Jr. but I'll forgive the ignorance on that. Few people are as well informed as I. And no one on the Right comes even close.

Do you feel magnanimous for forgiving me?

Things don't happen overnight. Policy changes usually take years.

President Clinton owns all the USA job losses that manufacturing went to other countries, because of all the global free trade agreements he signed.

Why are you so damn ignorant of your ignorance?
 
Tariffs shut this plant down in less than 6 months? Believing that's true isn't just irrational, it's moronic.

Moronic is the nature of left wing punditry...
 
I expect Taiwan just contains the corporate office and no contract manufacturing (or very little) sites left.

The double agent environment in China, agents representing customers to suppliers and agents representing suppliers to customers is one of the things that makes IP theft so easy in China. A company just has no idea where its Drawings, SOP's, BOO's and WI are going for the most part. Even if you are right there often you just get to see the shells part of that shell game even when the hidden pea is YOUR PROPERTY. A guy leaves, takes it all with him and you just have no idea where you stuff has gotten off to. We eventually found our products fully boxed up in imitations of our packaging down to the instruction manuals all over the place.
 
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It is really a dangerous time for digital wireless telephony now. These generational transitions from things like 3G to 4G to 5G might just look like more cells at higher capacity and higher density when viewed by users. But in truth very little survives from one generation to the next on the hardware end or software for that matter. Not anymore. Its not put more of this stuff up to make all of this additional bandwidth and capacity happen. So that means that new advances in technology are being pulled along throughout the industry in order to meet a new network spec.

Once you start getting screwed over on the IP end of things its just all money pouring out the door and all over highly technical advances. Sure a GSM or CDMA core might still exist for some carriers. But you could never pull off what these hardware systems are now capable of doing by just reaching back to an older generation of digital wireless and just build out more of it. Its all genius stuff too. So if your IP is stolen, you have really lost something valuable and for a generation of hardware, your are just being beat over the head with your own inventions.

So where does that put China in all of this? They will deploy more 5G faster than anybody else in the world and they will deploy it to the huge Chinese population and they will do it mainly with huge Chinese telecom hardware brands. The companies in the main responsible for these technologies will get some picked over bones thrown to them in the Chinese telecom market and then these same Chinese Telecom brands will use the economies of scale gained feeding hardware into the Chinese market out to the rest of the world. Checking Chinese IP theft is so much more important than worrying about who made your new lawn chair.

The only tool US and EU companies have that can stave off the Chinese is that we in the West still control standards in what is really a standards based business environment and if we are so inclined to believe we have been stolen blind, we will just change the standard and send the Chinese right back to square 1, a practice we have used before to help stave off IP theft. Though we don't often blame standards changes on IP theft it has the same effect. But really that is simply the industry trying to give governments the opportunity to catch up and stem the tide of IP theft. I don't see it happening without the US taking the lead and Trump is lost in this environment....utterly clueless and careless at the same time. As it is the Chinese on occasion try to make a Chinese set of standards to keep companies out of their market. If they ever get to make a Chinese standard a worldwide standard...forget it....we are out of the telecom hardware business.
 
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If only this company had thought about buying American prior to the tariffs, instead of concentrating on helping the Chinese put Americans out of work... Then maybe they wouldn't be worried about tariffs now.

And you'd be paying alot more for those TV's (in the OP example).

So less people would by those TVs from that company. And it would still go out of business and/or lay off workers :roll:
 
What TV is actually made in the USA? What TV do you have? What computer do you have? Do you think all those chips and processors were made in America?

There are computers assembled in the USA. The Apple MacPro is assembled in Texas. Lenovo assembles computers in South Carolina. How do these two companies fight on equal footing with companies that are assembling in China where the labor is about a 10th of what it is in the USA?
 
it's OK, of course, these people will say its democrats fault, because they have been brainwashed into that being their response to everything
 
And you'd be paying alot more for those TV's (in the OP example).

So less people would by those TVs from that company. And it would still go out of business and/or lay off workers :roll:

Interesting. It seems that you support making products overseas, exploiting cheap labor, putting Americans out of work, all in the name of corporate greed.. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Interesting. It seems that you support making products overseas, exploiting cheap labor, putting Americans out of work, all in the name of corporate greed.. Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, go ahead and speculate some fantasy so you can look 'right on the Internetz' instead of offering an adult argument.
 
There are computers assembled in the USA. The Apple MacPro is assembled in Texas. Lenovo assembles computers in South Carolina. How do these two companies fight on equal footing with companies that are assembling in China where the labor is about a 10th of what it is in the USA?

If you read the post I quoted, you'd see he said:

Now if the TV's were actually "made in the USA" instead of just assembled... People like me would buy them.

That's why I quoted him and asked what TV he did have and what computer he did have...heck what phone does he have...that is produced completely in the US?
 
A more important question is why don’t the make TV parts in the US. The reason is because it is less expensive to exploit cheap labor overseas and put Americans out of work.

Would my iPhone be more expensive if it were assembled in the USA? Yes. Yes, it would. Why is my iPhone assembled in China? Oh right, $10 per day wages.

The Democrats used to be the party that supported the workers, now because it is President Trump wanting to impose tariffs to combat unfair trade practices, you all now support Chinese workers and greedy American corporations.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Also,the raw materials are overseas, and cheaper to obtain there.
 
Yes, go ahead and speculate some fantasy so you can look 'right on the Internetz' instead of offering an adult argument.

Think about it. If a company could make their widgets in the USA but it would cost $15/hour in labor costs plus benefits for their employees, or they could have them made in China where they pay $15 per day and no benefits, who has the advantage?
 
Blah, blah, blah...

Did you even look at that link? Did you even read the comments from people who bought those crappy TVs? I suspect the company really went out of business because nobody wants to buy their ****ty product.
Sony got 1 star
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/sony.htm

Apple, which is a $1 trillion company, is not an "accredited brand" and eked out 2.75 stars
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/apple_iphone.html

GM gets 2 stars, "Unaccredited," they must suck
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/general-motors.html

Verzion FIOS is doomed
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/internet/verizon_fios.html

I don't think we can take that site too seriously.
 
There are computers assembled in the USA. The Apple MacPro is assembled in Texas. Lenovo assembles computers in South Carolina. How do these two companies fight on equal footing with companies that are assembling in China where the labor is about a 10th of what it is in the USA?

By making/assembling higher end products closer to their end markets. This is not complicated stuff. We sent things like shoe manufacture and small parts manufacturing to China for a reason. It is not high value work. That was not a mistake. A MISTAKE would be paying people high value salaries for low value work which is about all that will result from the Trump/Ross economy until it collapses around our ears.

We have made two fairly large blunders since helping to support the global economy. We wasted the past twenty years at least screwing up:
- we have not protected the integrity of our IP. Our inventiveness is a key economic advantage
- we have not developed our educational systems to accommodate the global economy we helped bring into existence and I do not expect dingdong Devos or Labor Sec Acosta to do a darned thing about it either. Devos is an idiot and is totally wrapped up in her idiot charter school game and Acosta as is the case with most Trump cabinet heads are equally disposed to allowing buddies to pillage the Treasury.

Heck in this country we don't even pay Education (Big E) more than lip service, never mind reshaping it for the 21st century.

I also don't expect dingdong Donald to figure out that much of our inventiveness is a direct result of the American Melting Pot which Donald is attempting to destroy!
 
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An edict from Trump is a better way to determine that* than the market?

*Assuming they don’t get one of Trump’s special bailouts for being politically significant.

Since you’re in the Northeast, any news from your region on boomerangs from #45’s tariffs?

We didn’t learn from pre-Civil War tariffs. Nor Smoot-Hawley tariffs. Nor President Carter’s.
 
Since you’re in the Northeast, any news from your region on boomerangs from #45’s tariffs?

We didn’t learn from pre-Civil War tariffs. Nor Smoot-Hawley tariffs. Nor President Carter’s.

Most of us learned. But, some of us still want to refight the Civil War. :shrug:
 
Think about it. If a company could make their widgets in the USA but it would cost $15/hour in labor costs plus benefits for their employees, or they could have them made in China where they pay $15 per day and no benefits, who has the advantage?

The advantages were not in question.

That was the point.
 
Sony got 1 star
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/sony.htm

Apple, which is a $1 trillion company, is not an "accredited brand" and eked out 2.75 stars
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/apple_iphone.html

GM gets 2 stars, "Unaccredited," they must suck
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/general-motors.html

Verzion FIOS is doomed
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/internet/verizon_fios.html

I don't think we can take that site too seriously.

I didn't even look at the overall stars the company got. I just looked at the comments from the customers. That alone tells me it's a crappy company.
 
I didn't even look at the overall stars the company got. I just looked at the comments from the customers. That alone tells me it's a crappy company.
Sony, Apple, GM, had hundreds of reviews, mostly negative. Verizon had nearly 3000 reviews, again mostly negative.

Element TVs on Amazon get 4 stars.

Hundreds, possibly thousands, of companies are getting hit by tariffs. Some will close US factories. That can occasionally happen when a company faces an externality. Conservatives have spent years decrying regulations and taxes and minimum wage hikes for that exact reason.

If someone told you that a company shut a factory because of a minimum wage hike, would you declare that the company's products sucked, and they deserved to close?

If corporate taxes increase by 10% in the US, and a company says it's going to close a factory, would you declare that the company's products sucked, and they deserved to close?

Volvo may not hire 4000 workers. BMW may cut thousands of SC jobs. GM is threatening job cuts. Harley is cutting US jobs. And the tariffs have barely gotten started.

Elements isn't going out of business. Sales didn't suddenly collapse. They didn't close a US plant because of bad products.

Better luck next time.
 
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