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Tactical Nukes

Hamish Howl

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Ridiculous assumption. Totally ridiculous. Poland is part of Nato.

Apples and oranges.

This is not like pre ww2

No, this is like WWII if the Czechs chose to fight.
 

Hamish Howl

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Sorry, you are wrong. I repeat, Ukraine is not part of Nato nor within our sphere of influence.
And I repeat, our sphere of influence is wherever we say it is.

We are certainly influencing the Ukraine war. Ask any number of dead Russians about it.
 

Dayton3

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Tactical nukes seem to get a lot of attention these day and for the record Putin will use them if Ukraine does not capitulate and he can't win with conventional forces which it seems he can't.

So, just how powerful are tactical nukes? These are no mere bunker buster bombs kicked up a notch. A tactical nuke has the same strength as the bomb we dropped on Hiroshima. Enough to destroy a medium sized city.

How powerful are strategic nukes? Well, these are unimaginably strong. At 50 miles from detonation expect burns and to be ripped apart by flying glass as all windows will blow out. Inside 50 miles, the closer you get, the worse it gets. Winds will start out at 500 mph from teh blast site. (fade the further out you are of course)
Best to be at ground zero.

So what say you? Still feeling hard line toward Putin over Ukraine, a non NATO member?
A "tactical nuclear weapon can be as small as .1 kiiltons (100 tons of TNT yield Or only one 150th the size of Hiroshima weapons.

While there are strategic nuclear weapons that can do the amount of damage you describe, most are not remotely that powerful. The most common American strategic nuclear weapon is the W76 nuclear warhead with a yield of 100 kilotons or about seven times that of Little Boy (Hiroshima)..
 

noonereal

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A "tactical nuclear weapon can be as small as .1 kiiltons (100 tons of TNT yield Or only one 150th the size of Hiroshima weapons.

While there are strategic nuclear weapons that can do the amount of damage you describe, most are not remotely that powerful. The most common American strategic nuclear weapon is the W76 nuclear warhead with a yield of 100 kilotons or about seven times that of Little Boy (Hiroshima)..

Yes, small ones can fit in a backpack.
They are also as big as I describe.
Do you know which will be used where?
 

Dayton3

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Yes, small ones can fit in a backpack.
They are also as big as I describe.
Do you know which will be used where?
I'm no expert but if I had to guess, to make the greatest political impact the Russians would use a Strategic nuclear warhead but targeted on a tactical level target in Ukraine in order not to cause severe damage but by the nature of the warhead send the message of "we could do a lot worse if we wanted to".
 

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I'm no expert but if I had to guess, to make the greatest political impact the Russians would use a Strategic nuclear warhead but targeted on a tactical level target in Ukraine in order not to cause severe damage but by the nature of the warhead send the message of "we could do a lot worse if we wanted to".

Very astute pondering.
It is know that Putin believes in hitting very hard and daring you to strike back. This logic would seem to fall into his predilection.
 

iguanaman

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Ridiculous assumption. Totally ridiculous. Poland is part of Nato.

Apples and oranges.
Not ridiculous in Putin's or the Polish people's mind. Once you give in to a dictator they take it as weakness and are emboldened. He will still have nukes and we can't risk him using them right? So NATO will also have to hold back while he takes all the countries of the former USSR again.
 

iguanaman

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I'm no expert but if I had to guess, to make the greatest political impact the Russians would use a Strategic nuclear warhead but targeted on a tactical level target in Ukraine in order not to cause severe damage but by the nature of the warhead send the message of "we could do a lot worse if we wanted to".
And we will destroy his black sea fleet and nuke moscow. It is not called mutual assured destruction fo nothing.
 

Dayton3

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And we will destroy his black sea fleet and nuke moscow. It is not called mutual assured destruction fo nothing.
Don't be ridiculous. The U.S is not going to destroy a city of millions just because the Russians nuke some minor target in Ukraine.

Not to mention the obvious. Moscow is surrounded by ABMs. So unless the U.S. launched scores of warheads against Moscow the odds of destroying the city are remote.
 

iguanaman

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Don't be ridiculous. The U.S is not going to destroy a city of millions just because the Russians nuke some minor target in Ukraine.

Not to mention the obvious. Moscow is surrounded by ABMs. So unless the U.S. launched scores of warheads against Moscow the odds of destroying the city are remote.
Using nukes is contagious and taking out the entire Russian Govt. is the safest thing we could do if Putin strikes first.. Russia's abm's are no match for our tech. It will be one and done. Those millions that die will save billions of lives.
 

Dayton3

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Using nukes is contagious and taking out the entire Russian Govt. is the safest thing we could do if Putin strikes first.. Russia's abm's are no match for our tech. It will be one and done. Those millions that die will save billions of lives.
What makes you think the entire Russian government would be in Moscow?

Just how has U.S. weapons tech advanced allowing us to overcome ABM defenses?
 

Antiwar

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Buncha armchair American aggression assholes flapping their lips about the general warfare claws.

"Don't ask what your country can do for you, shut the **** up and suffer the consequences."

John Wayne International Airport
 

EnigmaO01

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Judging by how the the Russin's always 'go big'. My guess is they don't even have any small tactical nukes and only have big bombs. They are centainly in no position to develop one in a reasonable time frame. To me it's all a bluff. This kind of talk might even indicate that negotiations are on going. We'll have to wait and see.
How many tactical nukes does Russia have?


The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists says the Russian arsenal includes 4,447 warheads of which 1,588 are deployed on ballistic missiles and at heavy bomber bases. It says there are an "approximate additional 977 strategic warheads, along with 1,912 non-strategic warheads" being held in reserve.

 

iguanaman

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Ukraine is not a sovereign country. It has been a client state of Washington for eight years now.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Gone? Really? You believe this?

Guess what. There is a school of though that should he use them the best response is to unite the world against him and not strike back militarily.

If this can indeed be pulled off, it is a far better strategy than the moronic, "we'll blow Russia off the map" school yard crap.
You comrades don't have a clue and we would all be speaking Russian now if we had you guys calling the shots during the cold war. Thankfully our military and intel services are not wimps like you and will not surrender to Russia because they are acting like assholes which is nothing new.. They have been threatening to destroy us for over 50 years and we are still here. Lets not mess things up now OK?
 

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You both don't have a clue and we would all be speaking Russian now if we had you guys calling the shots during the cold war. Thankfully our military and intel services are not wimps like you and will not surrender to Russia because they are acting like assholes, They have been threatening to destroy us for over 50 years.
Go ahead and cite the "Russian law" dictating when nuclear weapons can be used.
 

iguanaman

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Go ahead and cite the "Russian law" dictating when nuclear weapons can be used.
The law was recently modified to include non-nuclear attacks targeting the nation’s critical government and military infrastructure but the nuclear part is unchanged. Not that it matters in this discussion. Nothing happening in Ukraine is threatening the existence of Russia.

In line with Russian military doctrine, the new document reaffirms that the country could use nuclear weapons in response to a nuclear attack or an aggression involving conventional weapons that “threatens the very existence of the state.”

But the policy document now also offers a detailed description of situations that could trigger the use of nuclear weapons. They include the use of nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction against Russia or its allies and an enemy attack with conventional weapons that threatens the country's existence.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...of-atomic-weapons-against-non-nuclear-strike/
 

iguanaman

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Ridiculous assumption. Totally ridiculous. Poland is part of Nato.

Apples and oranges.
Putin considers NATO a Nazi organization and he could well decide that it needs to be "cleansed" like Ukraine...otherwise he might be forced to use a nuke on Warsaw if we won't comply. Once you admit he has the upper hand he will use it to its fullest. Poland is VERY worried about Putin using a nuke on them.
Here is someone else to explain what might happen if Putin used a small nuke in Ukraine. It is likely that a European nuclear weapons would be the one used on Russia as a message to them that they will not benefit from such behavior or they might just destroy Russia's entire black sea fleet instead like one General suggested... Not only that but it would not stop Ukraine from fighting and the radiation from the weapon would spread to Russia too. All of that adds up to what I originally said.... Putin will not use nukes in Ukraine.

What should Europe do if Russia uses a nuke?​

Leaving aside the fact that Nato would feel forced to react to Russia's nuclear attack, and establish an even more forceful posture against Russia, it is doubtful that Ukraine would suddenly stop defending itself.
Since the frontline is very long and group concentrations are limited, a tactical nuclear strike would not achieve much more than one currently can with conventional warfare — perhaps only immediately demobilising one or two brigades.
In addition, it would be very difficult to control the radiation fallout in the following days, leaving Russia's own troops and territory potentially victim to exposure.
The international response against Russia would be strong and harsh, especially as Russia's own territory is not under threat. Perhaps the Russian seat in the UN Security Council would be challenged, and many countries which currently tacitly support Russia, such as China, might rethink their position.
Sanctions from the West would become even more extreme. More importantly, the entire post-Second World War rulebook on the non-use of nuclear weapons would be thrown into the dustbin.
For Ukraine and any other country bordering Russia, the message would be clear; Russia is an existential threat — and if it does not gets its way, it will use nuclear arms. The only logical response would be for the smaller neighbouring countries to have easy access to similar response capacity and increased nuclear deterrence.

https://euobserver.com/opinion/156075
 
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Loulit01

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No, this is like WWII if the Czechs chose to fight.
No, WWII started when the Poles choose to fight. They had a defense treaty with Britain and France. My point is that appeasing Hitler by ceding Czechoslovakia did not prevent WWII. And ceding Ukraine to Putin will not stop Putin.
 
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