Syria: Why should I Care?

[blackjack50]

All the talk of Syria has gotten me kind of lost. This is what I know. Correct me if I am wrong.

FACT:
Assad is a bad guy. His regime is responsible for the death of thousands of civilians, regardless of the chemical weapons evidence.

FACT:

Syrian rebels include Al Queda. They also are brutal, and are equally as likely to turn weapons against the United States.

FACT;

Russia only cares because of their military base, arms shipments, and Cold War-esque views of the West and "imperialism."

FACT:

Iran does not want to lose the route that they ship arms against Israel.


So? Anything wrong? I mean. As I see it I see it...there is no point because no side are good guys. The only thing that happens here is that we start a nice "liberal war" with an air campaign against Assad and blow a few things up, maybe change the location of the piles of rubble that the country is already in. The Russians come out looking like they support "stability" and we come out looking like the jerks. Again.

Now. My counter point to invasion is that we don't do a thing. The Russians take the hear for supplying arms, and maybe they get targeted for their intervention instead of us. Sound selfish? Sure. But sucks to the Russian government. Maybe they will get toppled again?

 

[ecofarm]

Syrian rebels include Al Queda.

Americans include AlQ. So? You can't indict millions of people based on a few bad apples.

 

[MMC]

Americans include AlQ. So? You can't indict millions of people based on a few bad apples.

So! When it comes to Syria.....we aren't talking about just a few bad apples.

 

[ecofarm]

So! When it comes to Syria.....we aren't talking about just a few bad apples.

Yes we are. There are millions of innocent civilians, people just like you and I.

 

[blackjack50]

Americans include AlQ. So? You can't indict millions of people based on a few bad apples.

I wouldn't advocate a policy of intervention on behalf of a group that is likely to use the weapons I give them against me. It is more than just Al Q. The Rebels have plenty of jihadists who probably fired more than a few rounds at Americans in Iraq or Afghanistan. And they would likely do it again.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So! When it comes to Syria.....we aren't talking about just a few bad apples.

Based on what? Do you honestly think that most of the Syrian population is actively participating in their civil war?

 

[blackjack50]

Based on what? Do you honestly think that most of the Syrian population is actively participating in their civil war?

So why jeopardize them in a bombing campaign?

 

[ecofarm]

So why jeopardize them in a bombing campaign?

Because they will not be targeted, as they currently are, to the tune of tens of thousands dead.

 

[MMC]

Yes we are. There are millions of innocent civilians, people just like you and I.

Yeah and.....will they be running the Country afterwards?

Again, "so what," that there are good people in Syria. What is that suppose to mean in the Big Picture of things. Big frickken deal. Wow they have some good people like every country has. So what is that saying? Not a damn thing!

Their not in contention to take power to make change.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So why jeopardize them in a bombing campaign?

I agree, yet the claim being made is that they are now already in jeopardy and that bombing will somehow lessen that. Whether that is true or not, why is it a U.S. defense situation? Why even have an Arab League, if they refuse to act? I would say, at a minimum, that any and all costs of any U.S. military action must be covered by the Arab League.

 

[ecofarm]

Yeah and.....will they be running the Country afterwards?

Yes. Moderates will be empowered by the UN to construct and conduct a transitional democratic government.

 

[shrubnose]

All the talk of Syria has gotten me kind of lost. This is what I know.

Correct me if I am wrong.

FACT:
Assad is a bad guy. His regime is responsible for the death of thousands of civilians, regardless of the chemical weapons evidence.

FACT:

Syrian rebels include Al Queda. They also are brutal, and are equally as likely to turn weapons against the United States.

FACT;

Russia only cares because of their military base, arms shipments, and Cold War-esque views of the West and "imperialism."

FACT:

Iran does not want to lose the route that they ship arms against Israel.


So? Anything wrong? I mean. As I see it I see it...there is no point because no side are good guys. The only thing that happens here is that we start a nice "liberal war" with an air campaign against Assad and blow a few things up, maybe change the location of the piles of rubble that the country is already in. The Russians come out looking like they support "stability" and we come out looking like the jerks. Again.

Now. My counter point to invasion is that we don't do a thing. The Russians take the hear for supplying arms, and maybe they get targeted for their intervention instead of us. Sound selfish? Sure. But sucks to the Russian government. Maybe they will get toppled again?

I agree with a number of the points that you make.

Syria is a no-win situation for the USA.

No matter which side wins the civil war it won't be that good for the USA.

But I don't believe that the world should just stand by and wring its hands when a country uses chemical weapons.

If the UN had been set up right after WWII, the entire world would be going to war against the Syrian government.

Russia will likely have a lot of problems with Al-Qaeda and other extremist Muslim groups soon. Even an Assad victory in Syria will not [prevent that happening.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yes. Moderates will be empowered by the UN to construct and conduct a transitional democratic government.

:lol: :doh Who is going to empower the UN? :roll:

 

[MMC]

Based on what? Do you honestly think that most of the Syrian population is actively participating in their civil war?

Mornin Ttwtt. :2wave: Based on what? Plus we know the entire 78 million aren't involved in the civil war. How about a third of the population that backs what Al Nusra says the country will become. Thats Right off the Top. With the Salafists who say the same thing? How about 30 Opposition groups that have pledged against the US. That state they don't recognize the FSA or their TNC?

This doesn't count the MB or the PKK with the Kurds.

Then lets look at the Sectarian divide that's being played out by the Sunni and Shia.

Which then this doesn't even count AQ and themselves.

 

[ecofarm]

:lol: :doh Who is going to empower the UN? :roll:

You know who pays for the UN.

 

[MMC]

Yes. Moderates will be empowered by the UN to construct and conduct a transitional democratic government.

Yeah so you say <yawn>.....hows that work out if the Country divides up into 3 Autonomous Regions? :roll:

Course then there is that Issue of those that already stated.....the TNC won't be running anything after Assad is gone.

 

[ttwtt78640]

You know who pays for the UN.

And who plays for/to the UN. That is the problem with the UN, whether we agree, disagree or simply choose to ignore its findings, rulings and proclaimations, we still pay for it.

 

[ecofarm]

Yeah so you say <yawn>...

Let's not ignore the fact that this happened in Afghan, Iraq, Libya and Somalia. There are still terrorists in those countries. Are they in charge? No.

 

[ecofarm]

And who plays for/to the UN. That is the problem with the UN, whether we agree, disagree or simply choose to ignore its findings, rulings and proclaimations, we still pay for it.

The US is not in violation of any UN resolution. Of course each country must decide which resolutions to ratify, demanding full compliance would be idiotic.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The US is not in violation of any UN resolution. Of course each country must decide which resolutions to ratify, demanding full compliance would be idiotic.

There is no UN reslolution prohibiting blowing up stuff and killing folks in other nations? What a good thing and wise expense the UN is.

 

[Jerry]

All the talk of Syria has gotten me kind of lost. This is what I know. Correct me if I am wrong.

FACT:
Assad is a bad guy. His regime is responsible for the death of thousands of civilians, regardless of the chemical weapons evidence.

FACT:

Syrian rebels include Al Queda. They also are brutal, and are equally as likely to turn weapons against the United States.

FACT;

Russia only cares because of their military base, arms shipments, and Cold War-esque views of the West and "imperialism."

FACT:

Iran does not want to lose the route that they ship arms against Israel.


So? Anything wrong? I mean. As I see it I see it...there is no point because no side are good guys. The only thing that happens here is that we start a nice "liberal war" with an air campaign against Assad and blow a few things up, maybe change the location of the piles of rubble that the country is already in. The Russians come out looking like they support "stability" and we come out looking like the jerks. Again.

Now. My counter point to invasion is that we don't do a thing. The Russians take the hear for supplying arms, and maybe they get targeted for their intervention instead of us. Sound selfish? Sure. But sucks to the Russian government. Maybe they will get toppled again?

I admit I'm having a hard time with this one also. I mean...I like throwing this in the face of liberals, they elected a black George Bush, but why should I care about this really?

Some bad guys gassed other bad guys, and even more bad guys are mad about it. So?

 

[ecofarm]

Some bad guys gassed other bad guys, and even more bad guys are mad about it. So?

The average Syrian, millions of civilians, is not a bad guy.

 

[MMC]

Let's not ignore the fact that this happened in Afghan, Iraq, Libya and Somalia. There are still terrorists in those countries. Are they in charge? No.

Yeah take a good look at the picture, Chaos in full force......The Taliban are taking back Afghanistan where we lost. Iraq is already back into the Sectarian divide killing. Libya has turned into the Wild Wild West. Where that ruling government is there only in Name and Somalia still has no structure and again a government there in name only. Both havens for Armed militants and terrorists.

Here we are setting up little societies for people.....yet haven't learned from the history. That only they can set up their own societies by themselves. See how that works. No one else to Blame.

 

[ecofarm]

Yeah take a good look at the picture, Chaos in full force......The Taliban are taking back Afghanistan where we lost. Iraq is already back into the Sectarian divide killing. Libya has turned into the Wild Wild West. Where that ruling government is there only in Name and Somalia still has no structure and again a government there in name only. Both havens for Armed militants and terrorists.

Here we are setting up little societies for people.....yet haven't learned from the history. That only they can set up their own societies by themselves. See how that works. No one else to Blame.

If we look at actual recent history and ignore your crystal ball of doom-and-gloom, your argument is obliterated.

 

[MMC]

If we look at actual recent history and ignore your crystal ball of doom-and-gloom, your argument is obliterated.

Yeah.....well Just because I wont sugar coat it for you. Doesn't change the reality about Lawful Order NOT being there Now.