Swiss Region Votes to Ban Muslim Full Face Veils..[W:48]

[Dr. Chuckles]

Oh so this is just some of that dumbass chuckles ****?

No, it was me addressing the first part of your argument, which, for some reason, has seemingly upset you.

I even stated in my post that it doesn't matter if its part of their religion or not

But you still made the argument it wasn't part of the religion ...

which you cut out

Because it had nothing to do with my reply.

along with my actual point you refuse to address.

No, i just didn't comment on it because it has nothing to do with what I wrote.

The topic is limits to religious freedom not what is part of the muslim faith.

No, you clearly also made an argument about what was part of islam.

Stop trying to derail the conversation like you always do.

lol, I can't believe you're having a tantrum over this

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Yeah, probably some old fart wanted to save his people from the blazing desert sun, so he told women to cover all over their bodies. Ignorance done the rest - instituting veils as religious attribute.
There is no logical reason to put a veil in a cold climate country... unless you a bank robber or something.
Just my guess. eace

from my understanding it was a means to protect your women from raiding parties. Which tended to be a fact of life in 5th century arabia

 

[RabidAlpaca]

No, it was me addressing the first part of your argument, which, for some reason, has seemingly upset you.




But you still made the argument it wasn't part of the religion ...



Because it had nothing to do with my reply.



No, i just didn't comment on it because it has nothing to do with what I wrote.



No, you clearly also made an argument about what was part of islam.





lol, I can't believe you're having a tantrum over this

And it's not part of their religion. That's why some muslim countries have outlawed burkas.

Let me know when you're ready to debate the OP instead of this dumbass side track.

 

[Canell]

from my understanding it was a means to protect your women from raiding parties. Which tended to be a fact of life in 5th century arabia

You mean, it was easier for women to hide, dressed like ninjas? Makes sense too.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

And it's not part of their religion. That's why some muslim countries have outlawed burkas.

Key word: "some". Islam, like all religions, is interpretive and has a very long history of various sects and interpretations existing at the same time. hence, while some muslims do not view it as part of their religion, some others do.

Let me know when you're ready to debate the OP instead of this dumbass side track.

If you don't want to discuss the point you originally brought up you can simply not reply

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

You mean, it was easier for women to hide, dressed like ninjas? Makes sense too.

More like you couldn't really temp someone to kidnap you if you looked like a black blot

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Trouble is their religion doesn't call for facial covering - otherwise all muslim women would cover their faces. Equally, the niqab is actually banned in some muslim countries too.

you're over looking the fact that various interpretations of the same religion can exist side by side. Also, one can easily go find numerous Islamic scholars who disagree with you, who clearly carry more weight with the followers of Islam than some random guy on DP, a judge, a western scholar, or a govt body

from my understanding it was a means to protect your women from raiding parties. Which tended to be a fact of life in 5th century arabia

So what's your position? That some muslim scholars think covering a woman's face is an essential part of their religion or that it originates from hiding your 5th century women from raiding parties?

And as you say "easily find" - could you post a link please? I'm curious.

 

[Rainman05]

This specific case deals with Switzerland, but our Constitution guarantees "free exercise thereof" when it comes to religion. If their religion requires them to cover their faces, it falls under that.

They are free to worship in the place of worship.

Free exercise of religion doesn't mean that religion is above the law.
If you make a religion that allows ceremonial human sacrifice, it's still god damn murder and you'll still go to prison.

or basically what rabidaplaca said.

Except it's not really a part of their religion, rather an addition after the fact. Regardless of what it is, are there no limits to religious freedom? If I made up a religion saying that I have to wear a ski mask and a samurai sword while in public, should I be able to?

On another note:
Really. If we, Europeans, say that we are pro-assimilation. we want the immigrant populations from arab countries to integrate... then this is a move in the right direction. If you are however one of those multi-culti idiots who use the word multiculturalism as some amazing thing that is brand new discovered in the XXIth century with immigration from non-European countries, then piss off will you. You're wrong and you don't know what the words: culture and multiple mean.

 

[gunner]

Southern Swiss voters back ban on full-face veils.....

People in the southern Swiss canton of Ticino voted to impose the country's first ban on face-covering veils on Sunday, following in the footsteps of French and Belgian restrictions that rights groups say discriminate against Muslims.

Almost two thirds of voters in the Italian-speaking district backed the ban that still needs to be approved by the federal parliament in Bern before coming into effect.

Campaigner Giorgio Ghiringhelli, who drew up the proposal, said the result would send a message to "Islamist fundamentalists" he said were in Ticino and across Switzerland.

"Those who want to integrate are welcome irrespective of their religion," he said in a statement on the website ilguastafeste.ch.
"But those who rebuff our values and aim to build a parallel society based on religious laws, and want to place it over our society, are not welcome," he added.

Amnesty International said the vote was a "black day for human rights in Ticino".

There are roughly 400,000 Muslims in Switzerland, about 5 percent of the population
France was the first country in Europe to pass a law banning full-face veils in public, in 2010, and Belgium later followed suit......snip~

Southern Swiss voters back ban on full-face veils | Reuters


Well, I think this guy has it Right with what he is saying. Why should any accept this full face veil issue brought on by opposition groups that are Arab or Arab backed. Isn't it time to roll with the changes? Why should they get to be covered in todays society where all are afraid or scared of crime dropping down into their little worlds? I have no problem with any that want to do this. If others aren't allowed to do so or we haven't had to pass laws over such. Due to some common sense. Then why should Arabs and others like them be given any special treatment. Thoughts upon the matter?

It always strikes me as odd that very few (if any) comment on the effects from the reverse. I mean, I am pretty confident I would feel very uncomfortable trying to communicate with a woman wearing a full face veil, I would go as far as saying I would find it very rude. What about my rights?

Paul

 

[DDD]

It always strikes me as odd that very few (if any) comment on the effects from the reverse. I mean, I am pretty confident I would feel very uncomfortable trying to communicate with a woman wearing a full face veil, I would go as far as saying I would find it very rude. What about my rights?

Paul

Yes it makes the communication impersonal and alienates the masked person completely:

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

So what's your position? That some muslim scholars think covering a woman's face is an essential part of their religion or that it originates from hiding your 5th century women from raiding parties?

That it's origins were a means to protect women from raiding parties and that now some sects of Islam see it as an essential part of their religion. Not sure why you would view those things as mutually exclusive

And as you say "easily find" - could you post a link please? I'm curious.

Islam Question and Answer - Do women have to wear niqaab?

this offers a modern interpretation from Muhammad Saalih Al-Munajjid, a saudi hardliner cleric

Muhammad Al-Munajjid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

It always strikes me as odd that very few (if any) comment on the effects from the reverse. I mean, I am pretty confident I would feel very uncomfortable trying to communicate with a woman wearing a full face veil, I would go as far as saying I would find it very rude. What about my rights?

Paul

Where are you deriving this right of "people can't be rude to me"?

 

[Cyrylek]

Yes it makes the communication impersonal and alienates the masked person completely

Yes, that's why Halloween or the carnival in Venice always makes people feel unhappy and alienated.

By the way I think the masses of Swiss citizens who still value their country's great reputation as historical bastion of freedoms should descend on Lugano, all wearing burkas - women, men and children. Different colors, all kinds of stuff drawn and written on them...Heh, if organized well, it could become a major tradition and tourist attraction.

 

[Serenity]

When you take into account that only 2% of Ticino's 340,000 residents identify as Muslim, and none are known to wear face veils, this sounds like much ado about nothing to me. Good job Ticino for voting to impose the country's first ban on face-covering veils. Now, you just have to hope that you can find someone who wears one to enforce it. Because according to Ghiringhelli, no one in ticino wears one.

From the mouth of Giorgio Ghiringhelli, a 61-year-old political activist who proposed the vote.

Mr. Ghiringhelli and his opponents estimate that only about 100 residents wear burqas in all of Switzerland, and none in Ticino.

Swiss Canton Puts Burqa Ban to a Vote - WSJ.com

 

[gunner]

Where are you deriving this right of "people can't be rude to me"?

Nowhere. Now fuc.k off you Pric.k

Paul

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Nowhere. Now fuc.k off you Pric.k

Paul

having a bad day?

 

[MMC]

Where are you deriving this right of "people can't be rude to me"?

Heya Doc. Well.....coming from the streets. How do you think we play it? With ones so called Rights.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Heya Doc. Well.....coming from the streets. How do you think we play it? With ones so called Rights.

the fact that some prick might want to sock me in the jaw because he doesn't like what I have to say doesn't change the fact that I still have a right to free speech

 

[gunner]

having a bad day?

Just fine, I was simply exercising my right to be 'rude' .

Paul

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Just fine, I was simply exercising my right to be 'rude' .

Paul

while you might have a right to be rude in a public setting, this one is private. So it's a poor analogy.

 

[MMC]

the fact that some prick might want to sock me in the jaw because he doesn't like what I have to say doesn't change the fact that I still have a right to free speech

Hows that work.....when there are jerk offs that will kill one for just opening their mouth thinking they can exercise that Right? Bit different than just getting socked in the jaw.

Not that any advocates for such.....but then reality on the ground is what is.

 

[DDD]

Yes, that's why Halloween or the carnival in Venice always makes people feel unhappy and alienated.

By the way I think the masses of Swiss citizens who still value their country's great reputation as historical bastion of freedoms should descend on Lugano, all wearing burkas - women, men and children. Different colors, all kinds of stuff drawn and written on them...Heh, if organized well, it could become a major tradition and tourist attraction.

I was speaking of common everyday usage of masked clothing. But if you want women to wear such masked clothing only during Halloween and Carnivals as costumes the be my guest! :lol:

 

[Serenity]

Moderator's Warning:

Gunner and Dr C. please. Let's get back on topic, move on and leave the personal comments aside. Thank you.

 

[gunner]

Re: Swiss Region Votes to Ban Muslim Full Face Veils.....

the fact that some prick might want to sock me in the jaw because he doesn't like what I have to say doesn't change the fact that I still have a right to free speech

while you might have a right to be rude in a public setting, this one is private. So it's a poor analogy.

Private? I've sent you NO private message. This is an 'open board' the analogy is just fine.

Paul

Edited to add I wrote this after Serenity's warning.

 

[MMC]

It always strikes me as odd that very few (if any) comment on the effects from the reverse. I mean, I am pretty confident I would feel very uncomfortable trying to communicate with a woman wearing a full face veil, I would go as far as saying I would find it very rude. What about my rights?

Paul

Mornin' Gunner. :2wave: I can understand the feelings. While in the west some can pick up on body language and facial expressions.....which the Niqab can hide. It's a shame that it is just the Arab and muslim women are the ones that have to bear the brunt of such laws being enacted all due to the plight of their Alleged Religion.

Truly I wish it was their men.....as I would have no problem pointing out any conducting of business. They will take off their facial covering. As well as not putting up with them standing there thinking they could even approach me as so. I wouldn't have no trouble taking that **** off their face. Whether they liked or not.