Swimming-FINA votes to restrict transgender participation in elite women's competition

[Captain Adverse]

This is an imbecileic post. I have no inclination to offer you post qualifying edification as you clearly are not interested in truths.

LOL

Ad hominem responses are the last resort of one who has no real argument.

It is a typical method you like to use in response, and the primary reason why I so seldom respond to your posts.

Tagline time, again.

 

[Mr Person]

Some people will get screwed. It’s just a matter of who.

And yes many male to female trans athletes fail but that doesn’t necessarily argue against barring trans females from competing because success is more than just biology. However assuming equal training, desire, mental preparedness the person with with better genetics will win.

And the basketball player analogy really doesn’t work. 7’2” is a rare height for men but it isn’t unheard of. Women with testosterone levels and fast/slow twitch muscle fiber ratios of even average men are exceedingly rare.

I reached for the first analogy that came to mind. As for testosterone levels, sports do set maximum. The question is down to whether or how great any long-lasting differences are between M-->F trans athletes and F athletes. It seems intuitive that there might be a built-in advantage, but how much of one and in which circumstances/sports will vary. As will non-trans natural variation. There is no clear place to draw a line, so yes, someone's going to get screwed.

 

[Lisa]

I can live with this decision.

Being that you aren't trans and it doesnt affect you in any way, that is mightly white of you to say.

 

[PoS]

It's also a way to ensure that they don't have any sport categories given the massive stigma some persons aim at them and the tiny percentage of the population they occupy. Nevermind that at best the anti-trans people have at best a few cases where trans folk did better. Meanwhile in plenty of other cases, say the Olympic Heavy Weightlifter righties raged about here did things like...... bombing out of the Olympics.

That's what makes the resolution of the problem so hard. Which is why you went with the "I don't give a shit, but not what they want" answer.

It's not an easy yes/no situation, at least not for those who don't find it eminently convenient to shitcan a minority.



I don't think we can expect him to read past the headline.

I see another viewing the thread who will do the same in 3....2.....1...

More silly word salad. We get already, you hate natural born women.

Would you think it fair that instead of concentrating on defining sex, we determine biological parameters for participants in men's and women's sports and eliminate all the outliers?

From what I can see, this ruling is based on biology. Its clear that men generaly have stronger bodies than women, so to place someone who has developed from being originally a man into women's sports is not fair in any way, shape or form.

 

[JMB802]

From what I can see, this ruling is based on biology. Its clear that men generaly have stronger bodies than women, so to place someone who has developed from being originally a man into women's sports is not fair in any way, shape or form.

Why would you reply to my comment but ignore the content?

 

[noonereal]

More silly word salad. We get already, you hate natural born women.


From what I can see, this ruling is based on biology. Its clear that men generaly have stronger bodies than women, so to place someone who has developed from being originally a man into women's sports is not fair in any way, shape or form.

Of course its not fair letting a man compete against women. This is why we decided sports in the first place.
Anyone who advocates for men to compete with women i have a real issue with.

 

[Roadvirus]

Annnnnd the crybabies who advocate CHEATING are off and running:

FINA faces backlash over new 'gender inclusion policy' for transgender swimmers

FINA members approved the organization's new "gender inclusion policy" but it didn't come without some scrutiny.

www.foxnews.com

 

[buck]

Rugby League bans transgender athletes from women’s internationals

World Athletics appear likely to follow swimming in imposing a ban on transgender athletes from elite women’s races with federation president Seb Coe stressing that “biology trumps gender” when it comes to fairness in competition.

www.thetimes.co.uk

World Athletics is likely to follow swimming in imposing a ban on transgender athletes from elite women’s races, with its president, Lord Coe, stressing that “biology trumps gender” when it comes to fairness in competition.

Football’s world governing body, Fifa, is also considering following the international swimming federation Fina’s new policy, which states that anyone who has gone through male puberty cannot take part in female competitions regardless of whether they have transitioned to become a woman.

Common sense, which is obviously transphobic, is finally winning out. Lea Thomas would appear to have been the straw...

 

[Northern Light]

I think the best thing they can do until a better solution is invented, is that if you transition, you can no longer participate in sports. They have crammed non-scientific ideology through into sports leagues without any long term studies on the ramifications. Someone has to hit the stop button for now.

Men becoming women is destroying women's sports. You don't see the same problem in the reverse situation because so very few female athletes transition to male. There is a huge disparity.

These mediocre men who could never do well in their own league and weight class become women and get gold medals. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[PoS]

Why would you reply to my comment but ignore the content?

I addressed what you said.

 

[JMB802]

I addressed what you said.

No, you didn't. You said, blah, blah, men are stronger.

FINA is still trying to define sex, via puberty, as a predetermined cut-off for competition. I say, instead of singling out male to female transgenders, determine hormonal/biological parameters for all men and women competitors and test everyone. Then exclude all the biological/hormonal outliers, men and women, from competing when tests indicate they have an unfair advantage.

That would be "fair" as men and women competitors would be treated in the same way and it would not purposely single out male to female transgenders.

 

[Rawley]

I think the best thing they can do until a better solution is invented, is that if you transition, you can no longer participate in sports. They have crammed non-scientific ideology through into sports leagues without any long term studies on the ramifications. Someone has to hit the stop button for now.

Men becoming women is destroying women's sports. You don't see the same problem in the reverse situation because so very few female athletes transition to male. There is a huge disparity.

These mediocre men who could never do well in their own league and weight class become women and get gold medals. Makes a lot of sense.

I don't think you need a ban - you just have to compete against your biological peers.

 

[buck]

Dominoes falling fast. IrL (rugby) latest to ban trans women. Hannah mouncey no longer allowed.

Transgender women banned from playing in women's international rugby league matches | CNN

The global governing body for rugby league has banned transgender women from playing in women's international matches until further notice.

www.cnn.com

Pressure mounts on Rugby Australia to ban trans women

Under current World Rugby rules which echo Olympic guidelines, trans women can play in the women's game if they take medicine to lower their testosterone for at least 12 months.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[PoS]

No, you didn't. You said, blah, blah, men are stronger.

FINA is still trying to define sex, via puberty, as a predetermined cut-off for competition. I say, instead of singling out male to female transgenders, determine hormonal/biological parameters for all men and women competitors and test everyone. Then exclude all the biological/hormonal outliers, men and women, from competing when tests indicate they have an unfair advantage.

That would be "fair" as men and women competitors would be treated in the same way and it would not purposely single out male to female transgenders.

What a thoroughly ridiculous idea. Thank goodness youre not in charge.

Im happy with FINA's ruling.

 

[JMB802]

What a thoroughly ridiculous idea. Thank goodness youre not in charge.

It's not the least bit surprising that you would think that a resolution that doesn't single out transgenders is ridiculous.

 

[PoS]

It's not the least bit surprising that you would think that a resolution that doesn't single out transgenders is ridiculous.

There is no singling out. Its a biological fact that men on the average are stronger than women- its why women have a separate sports category. If you want to deny science just to pick on natural born women, hey thats you.

 

[JMB802]

There is no singling out

Sure there is, the rule specifically applies to transgender males to females. It doesn't apply to all competitors. That is the actual definition of singling out.

. Its a biological fact that men on the average are stronger than women- its why women have a separate sports category.

This is generally true but has nothing to do with my comment.

If you want to deny science just to pick on natural born women, hey thats you.

Please share exactly in my post where I am denying science.

 

[PoS]

Sure there is, the rule specifically applies to transgender males to females. It doesn't apply to all competitors. That is the actual definition of singling out.

This is generally true but has nothing to do with my comment.

Please share exactly in my post where I am denying science.

Wrong, it applies to people who physically developed as males, thereby giving them an unfair advantage.

I applaud FINA and the other bodies implementing this. Your idea is moronic.

 

[JMB802]

Wrong, it applies to people who physically developed as males, thereby giving them an unfair advantage.

Exactly, and it singles out people who transition from male to female. Stop feigning ignorance, it's a weak debate tactic.

I applaud FINA and the other bodies implementing this. Your idea is moronic.

Is it possible to you to reply to my comments withou resorting to the crutch of logical fallacies? I think not, so ... have a lovely day.

 

[PoS]

Exactly, and it singles out people who transition from male to female. Stop feigning ignorance, it's a weak debate tactic.

Is it possible to you to reply to my comments withou resorting to the crutch of logical fallacies? I think not, so ... have a lovely day.

Why do you hate natural born females so much? What did they ever do to you?

 

[JMB802]

Why do you hate natural born females so much? What did they ever do to you?

Thanks for proving my point, once again, that you are unable to debate without resorting to logical fallacies.

 

[PoS]

Thanks for proving my point, once again, that you are unable to debate without resorting to logical fallacies.

You keep saying youre not singling them out, but thats exactly what youre doing. Why do you want to lock them out of their own sport category?

 

[Aristaeus]

Exactly, and it singles out people who transition from male to female. Stop feigning ignorance, it's a weak debate tactic.

No, it singles out all males who went through puberty. It doesn't apply to transwomen who never reached stage 2 male puberty, and any transwomen swimmers who meet the new rules will still be allowed to compete in the women's categories.

 

[Aristaeus]

Fina's plan is to have a women's (female) category and an open category, so Lia will still be able to compete in the open category should she so wish.

 

[CLAX1911]

Being that you aren't trans and it doesnt affect you in any way, that is mightly white of you to say.

It won't effect trans people accept to help them out. Now dudes that suck at sports can't pretend to be trans to cheat by competing with women.

That is the sort of behavior that would make people more prejudiced against trans people.

I wonder how long it will be before Leah Thomas goes back to being a dude.