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SWAT for routine policing???

Montecresto

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The SWAT team is the big guns of policing in the United States, reserved for kidnappings, gunmen and other highly dangerous and potential volatile situations. Right?
Wrong, apparently, because in recent years, the use of SWAT teams for routine law enforcement matters has been on the rise, with sometimes fatal consequences. These highly trained police personnel are being sent out on gambling raids, ordered to break up underage parties and even dispatched to handle student loan fraud. Not the best use of taxpayer resources, given the expense of maintaining a SWAT team and sending members out on calls, but more than that, it’s a troubling indicator of something going deeply wrong in America.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/18225-why-are-swat-teams-answering-routine-police-calls
 
It is a matter of balance, and a little chicken or egg. People are pretty messed up and violent between the mental illness and substance abuse issues in society. I don't know that there is anything that is "routine" when it comes to policing these days. While I believe that cops go overboard, I also recognize that they have a terribly dangerous job and want to go home to their families at the end of the day. Of course the more heavy-handed the police become, the more pushback there is against them.

Fortunately this is not the case in my area. We have a lot of violent crime, but it is almost always domestic or drug/gang on drug/gang.
 
Well, the out of control police enjoy such support.
 
There's plenty of routine policing that still needs to be done everyday, like serving warrants. But increasingly SWAT, in full battle armor are taking on these chores. As the article pointed out, not a good trend for America.
 
There's plenty of routine policing that still needs to be done everyday, like serving warrants. But increasingly SWAT, in full battle armor are taking on these chores. As the article pointed out, not a good trend for America.

It is not a good trend in America that the police feel a need to do this either. I think you are denying reality if you do not believe that there are some horribly messed up people out there and when the police knock on the door, it could be a little old lady or a homicidal maniac opening it for all they know. In my city, a summons is delivered by the Sheriff. The police don't serve things unless there is an arrest or a search already authorized.
 
truth-out.org

hahaha
 
My fault! My fault...it's all prolly cuz the last time a cop came to sell me some policemen's ball tickets I blew him away with my Phased Plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. :gunsmilie

Sowwie, in my defense I thought it was a Jehovahs Witness. :blushing2

:lol:
 
truth-out.org

hahaha

Look. It doesn't matter to you what source I posted this from, there's plenty others, some I've already put up. Your one that doesn't value civil liberties so surrender all you wish.
 
As far as I know police are specifically trained to be scary and dominating. I assume the theory is a terrified criminal (or not) is a docile criminal.

Now, what can be more intimidating than a black armor clad SWAT team? It certainly must cut down on resistance. Even if nobody planned to resist what better way to insure that's what happens. So, IMHO this should not be surprising. Real life drama.




(I'm analyzing, not advocating)
 
I agree with the policy. 100%. The idea that a highly trained cop shouldn't be used is kind of crazy. But more to the point.

2 swat cops in a patrol car with gear gives means that you have 2 swat cops ready to respond to say...a mass shooting incident. Or? A bank robbery. Nothing is ordinary. These guys are well trained and well equipped. They can do fast call outs this way.

To accuse these guys of being "deadly" is to say that an ordinary patrol cop wouldn't act the same way in the same situation. Swat cops were likely patrol guys first. I would rather have Mr swaggering highly trained swat cop dealing with my "student loan fraud" than 1 bullet Barney.
 
Look. It doesn't matter to you what source I posted this from, there's plenty others, some I've already put up.

I don't see any other sources herein. I find using joke sources to be an insult to others and oneself.

Your one that doesn't value civil liberties so surrender all you wish.

Joke sources and personal attacks. Pathetic.
 
As far as I know police are specifically trained to be scary and dominating. I assume the theory is a terrified criminal (or not) is a docile criminal.

Now, what can be more intimidating than a black armor clad SWAT team? It certainly must cut down on resistance. Even if nobody planned to resist what better way to insure that's what happens. So, IMHO this should not be surprising. Real life drama.




(I'm analyzing, not advocating)

I see roaming swat in my area. Not that shocking really. They don't roll around in level 2 body armor or anything. They dress like normal cops...they just are physically more impressive...and they are clearly better trained.
 
SWAT is rarely needed - so then what are they going to do?

There can be disasterous results and low-impact arrests and raids are exactly NOT how SWAT is trained. I recall many years ago somewhere in Texas a SWAT team was in training and a robbery alarm went off for a C-Store, so they rushed to the scene. The clerk, an older woman, had accidentally set off the alarm - so had no clue what to think when men in black ninja costumes with guns came running into the store. She shot and killed one, and amazingly was not shot herself. The grand jury no-billed her.

How does a person know who is rushing towards them really is a police officer? Because he/they have on police costumes? Because one of them shouts out "police!" ?

The problem with rolling SWAT in SWAT outfits is if they get it wrong the person has no reason to even suspect police are coming after him/them. A drug house? Sure. But if they get the wrong address? A person walks up to armed men in black shouting. People don't instant-on when they awake. So the person instinctively grabs for his gun and SWAT blows him away - claiming it his fault for going for a gun.
 
I agree with the policy. 100%. The idea that a highly trained cop shouldn't be used is kind of crazy. But more to the point.

2 swat cops in a patrol car with gear gives means that you have 2 swat cops ready to respond to say...a mass shooting incident. Or? A bank robbery. Nothing is ordinary. These guys are well trained and well equipped. They can do fast call outs this way.

To accuse these guys of being "deadly" is to say that an ordinary patrol cop wouldn't act the same way in the same situation. Swat cops were likely patrol guys first. I would rather have Mr swaggering highly trained swat cop dealing with my "student loan fraud" than 1 bullet Barney.

There is NO circumstance SWAT should be used for CIVIL debt collecting. NEVER.

What next? Using SWAT for auto repossessions? To collect overdue credit card bills?
 
SWAT is rarely needed - so then what are they going to do?

There can be disasterous results and low-impact arrests and raids are exactly NOT how SWAT is trained. I recall many years ago somewhere in Texas a SWAT team was in training and a robbery alarm went off for a C-Store, so they rushed to the scene. The clerk, an older woman, had accidentally set off the alarm - so had no clue what to think when men in black ninja costumes with guns came running into the store. She shot and killed one, and amazingly was not shot herself. The grand jury no-billed her.

How does a person know who is rushing towards them really is a police officer? Because he/they have on police costumes? Because one of them shouts out "police!" ?

The problem with rolling SWAT in SWAT outfits is if they get it wrong the person has no reason to even suspect police are coming after him/them. A drug house? Sure. But if they get the wrong address? A person walks up to armed men in black shouting. People don't instant-on when they awake. So the person instinctively grabs for his gun and SWAT blows him away - claiming it his fault for going for a gun.

Yeah, because teams of bad guys often dress up as cops for home invasions. :roll:
 
I don't see any other sources herein. I find using joke sources to be an insult to others and oneself.



Joke sources and personal attacks. Pathetic.

You support illegal wars and call them legit. And you have no problem with SWAT being used for routine police work. So no, I don't see where you support the constitution, the rule of law or international law. That's not a personal attack.

Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America

By Radley Balko
July 17, 2006
Executive Summary

Americans have long maintained that a man’s home is his castle and that he has the right to defend it from unlawful intruders. Unfortunately, that right may be disappearing. Over the last 25 years, America has seen a disturbing militarization of its civilian law enforcement, along with a dramatic and unsettling rise in the use of paramilitary police units (most commonly called Special Weapons and Tactics, or SWAT) for routine police work. The most common use of SWAT teams today is to serve narcotics warrants, usually with forced, unannounced entry into the home.


http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-paramilitary-police-raids-america
 
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has launched a nationwide campaign to assess police militarization in the United States. Starting Wednesday, ACLU affiliates in 23 states are sending open records requests to hundreds of state and local police agencies requesting information about their SWAT teams, such as how often and for what reasons they're deployed, what types of weapons they use, how often citizens are injured during SWAT raids, and how they're funded. More affiliates may join the effort in the coming weeks.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/aclu-police-militarization-swat_n_2813334.html
 
You support illegal wars and call them legit. And you have no problem with SWAT being used for routine police work. So no, I don't see where you support the constitution, the rule of law or international law. That's not a personal attack.

Have you found another source yet or are you still using the equivalent of Mad Magazine (but not joking) to make your argument?

Good edit (though some people think cato is crap). SWAT teams serving narcotics warrants is reasonable. I'm glad to see they're being put to use.

Now you have a good day and try not to demonize everyone.
 
Last edited:
On Jan. 4 of last year, a local narcotics strike force conducted a raid on the Ogden, Utah, home of Matthew David Stewart at 8:40 p.m. The 12 officers were acting on a tip from Mr. Stewart's former girlfriend, who said that he was growing marijuana in his basement. Mr. Stewart awoke, naked, to the sound of a battering ram taking down his door. Thinking that he was being invaded by criminals, as he later claimed, he grabbed his 9-millimeter Beretta pistol.

Enlarge Image

Photo illustration by Sean McCabe
The police say that they knocked and identified themselves, though Mr. Stewart and his neighbors said they heard no such announcement. Mr. Stewart fired 31 rounds, the police more than 250. Six of the officers were wounded, and Officer Jared Francom was killed. Mr. Stewart himself was shot twice before he was arrested. He was charged with several crimes, including the murder of Officer Francom.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904.html
 
Have you found another source yet or are you still using the equivalent of Mad Magazine (but not joking) to make your argument?

Good edit (though some people think cato is crap). SWAT teams serving narcotics warrants is reasonable. I'm glad to see they're being put to use.

Now you have a good day and try not to demonize everyone.


You don't see an edit, stop lying.
 
Turning Patrolmen Into Soldiers: How Did We Let This Happen?
JAMES FALLOWSNOV 21 2011, 11:17 PM ET

I'm chagrined not to have noted a great Atlantic item from two weeks ago, "How the War on Terror Has Militarized the Police." It covers systematically much of the terrain I've been going into episodically.

Nonetheless, let's move on! Following this item about the "up-armoring" of even small rural police forces, and the decking out of ordinary police patrol forces in heavy-weather militarized riot gear, Mike Lofgren, a former Republican Senate staffer whose name may ring a bell, writes to say:



Read it here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...o-soldiers-how-did-we-let-this-happen/248828/
 
When the Police Go Military
By AL BAKER
Published: December 3, 2011


RIOT police officers tear-gassing protesters at the Occupy movement in Oakland, Calif. The surprising nighttime invasion of Zuccotti Park in Lower Manhattan, carried out with D-Day-like secrecy by officers deploying klieg lights and a military-style sound machine. And campus police officers in helmets and face shields dousing demonstrators at the University of California, Davis with pepper spray.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/s...police-become-militarized.html?pagewanted=all
 
SWAT Overkill: The Danger of a Paramilitary Police Force
In a guest editorial, law professor and instapundit.com blogger Glenn Reynolds argues that overagressive tactics and surplus military gear have turned some police units into a dangerous menace.
BY GLENN HARLAN REYNOLDS

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October 1, 2009 12:00 AM
SOLDIERS AND POLICE are supposed to be different. Soldiers are aimed at enemies from outside the country. They are trained to kill those enemies, and their supporters. In fact, "killing people and breaking things" are their main reasons for existence.
Police look inward. They're supposed to protect their fellow citizens from criminals, and to maintain order with a minimum of force.
It's the difference between Audie Murphy and Andy Griffith. But nowadays, police are looking, and acting, more like soldiers than cops, with bad consequences. And those who suffer the consequences are usually innocent civilians. The trend toward militarizing police began in the '60s and '70s when standoffs with the Black Panthers, the Symbionese Liberation Army, and the University of Texas bell tower gunman Charles Whitman convinced many police departments that they needed more than .38 specials to deal with unusual, high-intensity threats. In 1965 Los Angeles inspector Daryl Gates, who later became police chief, signed off on the formation of a specially trained and equipped unit that he wanted to call the Special Weapons Attack Team. (The name was changed to the more palatable Special Weapons and Tactics). SWAT programs soon expanded beyond big cities with gang problems.
Abetting this trend was the federal government's willingness to make surplus military equipment available to police and sheriffs' departments. All sorts of hardware is available, from M-16s to body armor to armored personnel carriers and even helicopters. Lots of police departments grabbed the gear and started SWAT teams, even if they had no real need for them. The materiel was free, and it was fun. I don't blame the police. Heck, if somebody gave me a Bradley Fighting Vehicle to play with, I'd probably start a SWAT team, too--so long as I didn't have to foot the maintenance bill.
Thus, the sheriff's department in landlocked Boone County, Ind., has an amphibious armored personnel carrier. (According to that county's sheriff-elect, the vehicle has been used to deliver prescriptions to snow-bound elderly residents, and to provide protection during a suspected hostage situation.) Jasper, Fla.,--with 2000 inhabitants and two murders in the past 12 years--obtained seven M-16s from the federal government, leading an area newspaper to run a story with the subhead, "Three stoplights, seven M-16s."
This approach, though, has led to problems both obvious and subtle. The obvious problem should be especially apparent to readers of this magazine: Once you've got a cool tool, you kind of want to use it. That's true whether it's a pneumatic drill, a laser level or an armored fighting vehicle. SWAT teams, designed to deal with rare events, wound up doing routine police work, like serving drug warrants.


Read more: SWAT Overkill: The Danger of a Paramilitary Police Force - Popular Mechanics
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Visit us at PopularMechanics.com
 
All joke sources to you I'm sure.
 
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