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Svensmark Closes the Loop -- The Missing Link Between GCR's, Clouds and Climate

LOL :lamo

First of all, your "summary" is just a WUWT article. It's written by "Mike Jonas," who appears to have no relevant education, credentials or experience in any scientific field at all.

Second, I'm telling you that Svensmark started advancing this theory in 1997. You claim that I'm wrong by citing a biased summary that says... uh... "Svensmark started advancing this theory in 1997" and "the theory is 20 years old." Comedy gold!

You insist that this new paper will turn climate science upside down. And yet, your WUWT summary points out that the GCR theory has been ignored for 20+ years.

To call the WUWT summary "biased" would be an understatement. Climate science was not "shaken" by the theory. Climatologists have examined the claims; they've pointed out numerous flaws in Svensmark's theories; and lab experiments like the CLOUD system at CERN provide evidence that the effects of cosmic rays on temperature are quite small. Yet again, the most obvious problem is that there is no viable correlation between cosmic rays and global temperatures. And the new paper doesn't really respond to a lot of the criticism of and problems with his theories.

I'm curious, which did you not read -- my post? Svensmark's paper? The WUWT article? Or all three?

It is also amazing how, yet again, you just make your position worse in your attempts to defend it. Keep up the, uh, work.

Actually the IPCC downplayed Svensmark's ideas by slightly broadening the cause of the uncertainty.
Consider the statement from Baede, et al 2001, still cited as the more comprehensive climate science reference.
If the amount of carbon dioxide were doubled instantaneously,
with everything else remaining the same, the outgoing infrared
radiation would be reduced by about 4 Wm-2. In other words, the
radiative forcing corresponding to a doubling of the CO2 concentration
would be 4 Wm-2. To counteract this imbalance, the
temperature of the surface-troposphere system would have to
increase by 1.2°C (with an accuracy of ±10%), in the absence of
other changes. In reality, due to feedbacks, the response of the
climate system is much more complex. It is believed that the
overall effect of the feedbacks amplifies the temperature increase to 1.5 to 4.5°C.
A significant part of this uncertainty range arises from our limited knowledge
of clouds and their interactions with radiation.
Since the forcing effects of 2XCO2 is 1.2°C, and the uncertainty caused from our limited knowledge
of clouds and their interactions with radiation (I.E. part of Svensmark's theory) is 3 °C,
it would be easy to believe the effects from cloud formation, are greater than effects from CO2.
 
LOL :lamo

First of all, your "summary" is just a WUWT article. It's written by "Mike Jonas," who appears to have no relevant education, credentials or experience in any scientific field at all.

Second, I'm telling you that Svensmark started advancing this theory in 1997. You claim that I'm wrong by citing a biased summary that says... uh... "Svensmark started advancing this theory in 1997" and "the theory is 20 years old." Comedy gold!

You insist that this new paper will turn climate science upside down. And yet, your WUWT summary points out that the GCR theory has been ignored for 20+ years.

To call the WUWT summary "biased" would be an understatement. Climate science was not "shaken" by the theory. Climatologists have examined the claims; they've pointed out numerous flaws in Svensmark's theories; and lab experiments like the CLOUD system at CERN provide evidence that the effects of cosmic rays on temperature are quite small. Yet again, the most obvious problem is that there is no viable correlation between cosmic rays and global temperatures. And the new paper doesn't really respond to a lot of the criticism of and problems with his theories.

I'm curious, which did you not read -- my post? Svensmark's paper? The WUWT article? Or all three?

It is also amazing how, yet again, you just make your position worse in your attempts to defend it. Keep up the, uh, work.

Cosmic Rays Not Causing Climate Change
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cosmic-rays-not-causing-climate-change/

Cosmic radiation causes fluctuations in global temperatures, but doesn't cause climate change
https://phys.org/news/2015-03-cosmic-fluctuations-global-temperatures-doesnt.html

Climate myths: It’s all down to cosmic rays
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11651-climate-myths-its-all-down-to-cosmic-rays/

Comprehensive study shows cosmic rays are not causing global warming
https://physicsworld.com/a/comprehensive-study-shows-cosmic-rays-are-not-causing-global-warming/

Cosmic ray theory of global warming gets cold response
https://cosmosmagazine.com/climate/cosmic-ray-theory-of-global-warming-gets-cold-response

Wow. Yeah, I'm sure that Svensmark's latest paper will revolutionize earth sciences! It's not like his theories repeatedly failed to hold up to scientific examination....

I never said you were "wrong" about 1997, only that you lack knowledge, which your subsequent posts confirm. I'm sure the Ptolemaic system still had defenders even after the work of Copernicus became known. That is the role you have chosen.

There is no doubt the upholders of AGW orthodoxy are hostile to Svensmark's work. He has reacted by simply pushing ahead with his research. His collaborator Nir Shaviv has been more vocal in pointing out the hypocrisy of scientists who try to stifle science. Such reactions are sadly not unprecedented, as is amply described in Thomas Kuhn's ​The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.
 
I never said you were "wrong" about 1997, only that you lack knowledge, which your subsequent posts confirm.
Riiiiiiight

Your equivocations are, as usual, wholly unconvincing. I was correct in pointing out that:
• Svensmark started working on this in 1997
• The latest paper is just a lab experiment which Svensmark claims shows the plausibility of his position, and it's landed with a dull thud
• Climate scientists have responded to, and largely rejected, his position
• I already linked to a paper in post #599, which describe an experiment at CERN which found that cosmic rays had a negligible impact on global temperature changes

Your response was to cut-and-paste a biased WUWT blog post (without attribution of course) that told me nothing I didn't know, which suggested that the proper response to not getting a paper in a peer-reviewed journal was to throw a temper tantrum, and which undercut your own original claim in this thread that Svensmark's work was going to revolutionize the field of earth sciences.

And spare me the rank desperation of the "paradigm" nonsense. Being in the minority doesn't prove that you're right, nor does it negate how scientists have examined and rejected Svensmark's claims. There is absolutely no sign whatsoever of any sort of paradigm shift away from AGW to cosmic rays, or any of the other quackery you (or more accurately, WUWT) is selling. If anything, the data we're seeing, month after month, year after year, just strengthens the AGW claims.
 
Actually the IPCC downplayed Svensmark's ideas by slightly broadening the cause of the uncertainty.
Consider the statement from Baede, et al 2001, still cited as the more comprehensive climate science reference.
Nope, not even close. That's a party foul.

You are literally taking one sentence out of context from a 900 page document, and twisting it to your own ends.

Back in the real world: The IPCC's 3rd Report did, in fact, discuss Svensmark's and similar theories, p 384-5, 6.11.2.2 Cosmic rays and clouds. It listed numerous refutations of the theory. To name but a few:

• Kuang showed that the correlation was with ENSO, not cosmic rays
• Farrar also showed a correlation of cloud formation to El Nino, not cosmic rays
• Kernthaler shows the alleged correlations of clouds to CRs drops if you include high latitudes, a result that doesn't line up with Svensmark et al

The section ends with:

We conclude that mechanisms for the amplification of solar forcing are not well established. Variations in ultraviolet and solar-induced changes in O3 may have a small effect on radiative forcing but additionally may affect climate through changing the distribution of solar heating and thus indirectly through a dynamical response. At present there is insufficient evidence to confirm that cloud cover responds to solar variability.


Discussion in the IPCC's Fifth Report (Physical Science Basis document, p613, 7.4.6.1-3) is essentially the same. It points out that the correlations Svensmark claims to find "have not proved to be robust when extending the time period under consideration (Agee et al., 2012), and restricting the analysis to particular cloud types (Kernthaler et al., 1999) or locations (Udelhofen and Cess, 2001; Usoskin and Kovaltsov, 2008);" that claims about clouds "were not corroborated by other studies that found no statistically significant links between the cosmic ray flux and clouds at the global scale," while other studies found weak correlations, and so on. The conclusion is essentially the same:

Correlations between cosmic ray flux and observed aerosol or cloud properties are weak and local at best, and do not prove to be robust on the regional or global scale. Although there is some evidence that ionization from cosmic rays may enhance aerosol nucleation in the free troposphere, there is medium evidence and high agreement that the cosmic ray-ionization mechanism is too weak to influence global concentrations of CCN or droplets or their change over the last century or during a solar cycle in any climatically significant way.

I am confident that few, if any, of the authors of the 3rd or 5th IPCC reports would accept your claim that "because of the uncertainties noted by the IPCC in 2001, we can conclude that cosmic rays had a bigger impact on climate change than CO2 and/or AGW."
 
Nope, not even close. That's a party foul.

You are literally taking one sentence out of context from a 900 page document, and twisting it to your own ends.

Back in the real world: The IPCC's 3rd Report did, in fact, discuss Svensmark's and similar theories, p 384-5, 6.11.2.2 Cosmic rays and clouds. It listed numerous refutations of the theory. To name but a few:

• Kuang showed that the correlation was with ENSO, not cosmic rays
• Farrar also showed a correlation of cloud formation to El Nino, not cosmic rays
• Kernthaler shows the alleged correlations of clouds to CRs drops if you include high latitudes, a result that doesn't line up with Svensmark et al

The section ends with:

We conclude that mechanisms for the amplification of solar forcing are not well established. Variations in ultraviolet and solar-induced changes in O3 may have a small effect on radiative forcing but additionally may affect climate through changing the distribution of solar heating and thus indirectly through a dynamical response. At present there is insufficient evidence to confirm that cloud cover responds to solar variability.


Discussion in the IPCC's Fifth Report (Physical Science Basis document, p613, 7.4.6.1-3) is essentially the same. It points out that the correlations Svensmark claims to find "have not proved to be robust when extending the time period under consideration (Agee et al., 2012), and restricting the analysis to particular cloud types (Kernthaler et al., 1999) or locations (Udelhofen and Cess, 2001; Usoskin and Kovaltsov, 2008);" that claims about clouds "were not corroborated by other studies that found no statistically significant links between the cosmic ray flux and clouds at the global scale," while other studies found weak correlations, and so on. The conclusion is essentially the same:

Correlations between cosmic ray flux and observed aerosol or cloud properties are weak and local at best, and do not prove to be robust on the regional or global scale. Although there is some evidence that ionization from cosmic rays may enhance aerosol nucleation in the free troposphere, there is medium evidence and high agreement that the cosmic ray-ionization mechanism is too weak to influence global concentrations of CCN or droplets or their change over the last century or during a solar cycle in any climatically significant way.

I am confident that few, if any, of the authors of the 3rd or 5th IPCC reports would accept your claim that "because of the uncertainties noted by the IPCC in 2001, we can conclude that cosmic rays had a bigger impact on climate change than CO2 and/or AGW."
Uncertainty is just that uncertainty, but they specifically stated,
A significant part of this uncertainty range arises from our limited knowledge
of clouds and their interactions with radiation.
Which could include Svensmark's theory, it certainty does not exclude it.
I think the climate feedbacks are more complex that ether concept,
CO2 alone is not behaving as predicted, so other variables are at play.
Clouds seem to be a greater factor than CO2, in terms of governing the overall energy entering and leaving Earth,
but we do not have a firm grasp on what all the variables are.
Consider that the IPCC graph of forcing factors,
The evolution of radiative forcing bar-charts « RealClimate
list clouds as between zero and negative 1.5 Wm-2, this would equate out to between zero -.45 C
of negative feedback, yet the IPCC says our limited knowledge of clouds
produces a significant portion of the 3 C of uncertainty.
Which is it?
 
Riiiiiiight

Your equivocations are, as usual, wholly unconvincing. I was correct in pointing out that:
• Svensmark started working on this in 1997
• The latest paper is just a lab experiment which Svensmark claims shows the plausibility of his position, and it's landed with a dull thud
• Climate scientists have responded to, and largely rejected, his position
• I already linked to a paper in post #599, which describe an experiment at CERN which found that cosmic rays had a negligible impact on global temperature changes

Your response was to cut-and-paste a biased WUWT blog post (without attribution of course) that told me nothing I didn't know, which suggested that the proper response to not getting a paper in a peer-reviewed journal was to throw a temper tantrum, and which undercut your own original claim in this thread that Svensmark's work was going to revolutionize the field of earth sciences.

And spare me the rank desperation of the "paradigm" nonsense. Being in the minority doesn't prove that you're right, nor does it negate how scientists have examined and rejected Svensmark's claims. There is absolutely no sign whatsoever of any sort of paradigm shift away from AGW to cosmic rays, or any of the other quackery you (or more accurately, WUWT) is selling. If anything, the data we're seeing, month after month, year after year, just strengthens the AGW claims.

I'm not sure why you would claim "equivocations" since the word is wholly inappropriate to describe anything in my post. I note you continue to dodge my #605. I'll get to your #599 shortly.

One factual correction: WUWT posts both Svensmark and his critics.
 
Nice excuse, not even remotely buying it. Your lack of knowledge of the paper you're touting is also rather stunning. The theories in the paper are not new. Svensmark has pushed versions of this same theory since 1997, and it's been pretty thoroughly ripped apart since then. Yet again, all this paper does is show that one of the mechanisms they described in earlier papers can work.... in a lab. That is, to put it mildly, a far cry from proving that it's what actually happens in the atmosphere.

In fact, experiments designed to test the sources of aerosol formation in the troposphere showed that cosmic rays had almost no effect. I'm guessing this is why no one cared about Svensmark's latest lab experiment. Even if the mechanism is plausible, that doesn't show that it is large enough to have any viable effect.
(Global atmospheric particle formation from CERN CLOUD measurements | Science)

Or maybe it's because there is no viable correlation between cosmic rays and global temperatures?

[h=3]Cloud formation may be linked to cosmic rays : Nature News[/h]https://www.nature.com/news/2011/110824/full/news.2011.504.html
Aug 24, 2011 - It sounds like a conspiracy theory: 'cosmic rays' from deep space might be creatingclouds in Earth's atmosphere and changing the climate. Yet an experiment at CERN, Europe's high-energy physics laboratory near Geneva, Switzerland, is finding tentative evidence for just that. The findings, published ..

[h=3]The cloud-climate conundrum | Climate Etc.[/h]https://judithcurry.com/2016/06/02/the-cloud-climate-conundrum/



Jun 2, 2016 - CERN CERN's CLOUD Experiment recently published three new papers: Ion induced nucleation of pure biogenic particles The role of low-volatility ... There are some interesting results here in terms of confirming Svensmark's ideas, and the experiments (both laboratory and in nature) seem to be well ...
 
Riiiiiiight

Nir Shaviv's take:


20th century global warming - "There is nothing new under the Sun" - Part I
In summary, there is no direct evidence showing that CO2 caused the 20th century warming, or as a matter of fact, any warming. The question to ask is therefore can we point to some other culprit? If humans are not the only ones responsible for climate change, what else is responsible?
20th century global warming - "There is nothing new under the Sun" - Part II
Presently, there is a large number of different empirical indicators showing that changes in solar activity has a non negligible effect on the climate. Changes in solar activity manifest themselves as changes in the strength of the solar magnetic field, changes in the sunspot number, in the strength of the solar wind (which is responsible for the impressive cometary tails) and other phenomena. These changes can be separated into three time scales.
20th century global warming - "There is nothing new under the Sun" - Part III
In the 1990's, Henrik Svensmark and his colleagues found empirically that clouds, and in particular low altitude clouds, appear to vary in sync with the solar activity (see fig. 6). The change in the energy budget associated with this change in the cloud cover is consistent with the amount of heat we find enters the oceans every solar cycle.


fig6.jpg
Figure 6: The correlation between cosmic ray flux (orange) as measured in neutron count monitors in low magnetic latitudes, and the low altitude cloud cover (blue) using ISCCP satellite data set, following Marsh & Svensmark (JGR, 108 (D6), 6, 2003). . . .
[FONT=&quot]The fact that the sun plays a decisive role in climate change has important implications to the understanding of the causes of 20[/FONT][FONT=&quot]th[/FONT][FONT=&quot] century global warming and the expected temperature change in the coming century. The increased solar activity over the 20[/FONT][FONT=&quot]th[/FONT][FONT=&quot] century can be translated into a radiative forcing contribution. Since the solar/climate link was already quantified, it is possible to estimate the solar contribution, which turns out to be about half of the measured warming. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thus, the warming component left to be explained by humans is much smaller than is often claimed by the proponents of the anthropogenic warming. However, if we are to predict the temperature change over the 21[/FONT][FONT=&quot]st[/FONT][FONT=&quot] century, we have to know what is the expected human contribution to the radiative budget, but equally important, also the climate sensitivity to these changes in the energy budget. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As we have seen above, the answer to the second question is that the sensitivity is most likely small. In fact, this sensitivity is about 1 degree increase per doubling of CO[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. . . . . [/FONT]
 
Uncertainty is just that uncertainty, but they specifically stated,

Which could include Svensmark's theory, it certainty does not exclude it.
Egads. EGADS. Epic fail.

You fail to understand the paragraph you keep citing. Their claim is not that CO2 is specifically and maximally responsible for 1.2C, and the remaining 3C comes from "clouds." It's that the simplest possible models suggest an increase of 1.2C. However interactions between infrared radiation (commonly known as heat) and clouds produce unpredictable results and various feedback effects. Meaning all of that range is due to CO2 and feedback effects.

Meanwhile: When they reviewed Svensmark's theories in the 3rd and 5th Reports, they found the effects of cosmic rays to be negligible.

Oh, and CR is not a feedback. It's a type of forcing. And one that has a near-zero effect on climate.

Thus, it is NOT acceptable to claim that any reading of the IPCC documents support the claim that Svensmark's theory explains up to 3C of warming. First and foremost, they explicitly ruled that out. Second, Svensmark's theory has nothing to do with the interactions of clouds and heat.

To put it another way: Your interpretation requires a stupendous amount of cherry-picking.


Consider that the IPCC graph of forcing factors....
Are you not looking at the graph? There's a component, labeled in plain English, as CHANGES IN SOLAR IRRADIANCE. That's what Svensmark claims is happening. It's near zero.

ipcc_rad_forc_ar5.jpg


Read the graph, it pretty much tells you what you need to know about this debate over CRs:
• Solar irradiance (and CRs) have almost no effect on climate change.
• When we break it down by emissions type, CO2 is the single largest component in radiative forcing
• Huge amounts of radiative forcing are now due to human activity.

You're welcome.
 
Egads. EGADS. Epic fail.

You fail to understand the paragraph you keep citing. Their claim is not that CO2 is specifically and maximally responsible for 1.2C, and the remaining 3C comes from "clouds." It's that the simplest possible models suggest an increase of 1.2C. However interactions between infrared radiation (commonly known as heat) and clouds produce unpredictable results and various feedback effects. Meaning all of that range is due to CO2 and feedback effects.

Meanwhile: When they reviewed Svensmark's theories in the 3rd and 5th Reports, they found the effects of cosmic rays to be negligible.

Oh, and CR is not a feedback. It's a type of forcing. And one that has a near-zero effect on climate.

Thus, it is NOT acceptable to claim that any reading of the IPCC documents support the claim that Svensmark's theory explains up to 3C of warming. First and foremost, they explicitly ruled that out. Second, Svensmark's theory has nothing to do with the interactions of clouds and heat.

To put it another way: Your interpretation requires a stupendous amount of cherry-picking.



Are you not looking at the graph? There's a component, labeled in plain English, as CHANGES IN SOLAR IRRADIANCE. That's what Svensmark claims is happening. It's near zero.



Read the graph, it pretty much tells you what you need to know about this debate over CRs:
• Solar irradiance (and CRs) have almost no effect on climate change.
• When we break it down by emissions type, CO2 is the single largest component in radiative forcing
• Huge amounts of radiative forcing are now due to human activity.

You're welcome.

Lots of words, without a lot of understanding!
The 1.2 C is the warming from forcing for 2XCO2, and almost everyone agrees the number is between 1 and 1.2 C,
(Technically the 1.2 C is from when they thought the energy imbalance from 2XCO2 would be 4 Wm-2,
the current number is 3.71 Wm-2, and I have seen numbers as low as 3.44 Wm-2)
The 3 C is the uncertainty applied to the amplified feedbacks (3 C is the difference between 1.5 and 4.5C)
I think you need to get your story lined up.
Clouds can both slow down cooling, and prevent energy input,
It does not get as hot on a cloudy day, but cloudy nights do not get as cold as clear nights.
The models do not handle clouds well, hence the uncertainty.
Svensmark's theory involves one of the mechanisms in the formation of clouds,
and it's not related to solar irradiance, and saying so only points out your poor understanding of the theory.
The way I understand it, during periods of high numbers of sun spots, solar winds stop more
cosmic rays from entering the Earths atmosphere, and fewer clouds are formed.
fewer sunspots, less solar winds, more clouds.
While I an not sure that Svensmark is on the right track, it is a viable theory.
Part of the traction of AGW, was that no other theory could explain the temperature changes,
I disagree, several other theories explain the temperature changes, and they are all valid until disprove.
We currently do not have enough data to disprove anything.
The simplest theory is that most of the observed warming is Anthropogenic, in as much as people with
vested interest control the data sets. Selecting stations that show the warming to support their theory.
(That type of warming is Anthropogenic also.)
I think there was actual warming in the 20th century, but much of it could simply be natural of simple CO2 forcing.
We also passed legislation that cleared the skies around the world, clearer skies, more energy in!
I have not found good data on how much solar energy was reaching the ground in say 1970 vs 2017.

There are also clear cycles in the climate, some long, like the ice ages, some short like the El Ninos,
how the many cycles interfere, could cause a host of unknown results.
 
Cloud formation may be linked to cosmic rays....
Yet again... lol

Both of the links you provided are discussing the CLOUD project at CERN.

I already provided a link to the most comprehensive overview of CLOUD's projects, which found that... drum roll please... so far, the evidence indicates that the effects of CR on climate change are negligible. Here it is again:
Global atmospheric particle formation from CERN CLOUD measurements | Science

To be a little more precise: Perhaps as much as 1/3 of aerosolization may be a result of the CRs constantly bombarding the planet. However, the variations in CR levels do not explain the changes in the climate we've observed over the past 100+ years.

But hey, if Judith Curry linked to it, it must be critical of AGW, right? Right? Right....
 
Yet again... lol

Both of the links you provided are discussing the CLOUD project at CERN.

I already provided a link to the most comprehensive overview of CLOUD's projects, which found that... drum roll please... so far, the evidence indicates that the effects of CR on climate change are negligible. Here it is again:
Global atmospheric particle formation from CERN CLOUD measurements | Science

To be a little more precise: Perhaps as much as 1/3 of aerosolization may be a result of the CRs constantly bombarding the planet. However, the variations in CR levels do not explain the changes in the climate we've observed over the past 100+ years.

But hey, if Judith Curry linked to it, it must be critical of AGW, right? Right? Right....
Still not following the theory I see!
It is not based on the changes in cosmic rays,
but changes in the atmosphere from our sun that let in the cosmic rays.
 
Yet again... lol

Both of the links you provided are discussing the CLOUD project at CERN.

I already provided a link to the most comprehensive overview of CLOUD's projects, which found that... drum roll please... so far, the evidence indicates that the effects of CR on climate change are negligible. Here it is again:
Global atmospheric particle formation from CERN CLOUD measurements | Science

To be a little more precise: Perhaps as much as 1/3 of aerosolization may be a result of the CRs constantly bombarding the planet. However, the variations in CR levels do not explain the changes in the climate we've observed over the past 100+ years.

But hey, if Judith Curry linked to it, it must be critical of AGW, right? Right? Right....

Judith Curry is actually an AGW believer. You are again uninformed.
The point of the CLOUD links was to illustrate the range of results achieved over the years.
I note you continue to dodge the Shaviv links. That is perhaps wise on your part.
 
Still not following the theory I see!
It is not based on the changes in cosmic rays,
but changes in the atmosphere from our sun that let in the cosmic rays.

To be precise, changes in solar output that affect the volume of cosmic rays reaching Earth. The amount of cosmic rays in turn affects cloud cover.
 
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Yet again... lol

The late Nigel Calder was both a collaborator and popularizer of Svensmark. Much of his writing about Svensmark is available here:

The Svensmark Hypothesis

An excerpt:

Today the Royal Astronomical Society in London publishes (online) Henrik Svensmark’s latest paper entitled “Evidence of nearby supernovae affecting life on Earth”. After years of effort Svensmark shows how the variable frequency of stellar explosions not far from our planet has ruled over the changing fortunes of living things throughout the past half billion years. Appearing in Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, It’s a giant of a paper, with 22 figures, 30 equations and about 15,000 words. See the RAS press release athttp://www.ras.org.uk/news-and-press/219-news-2012/2117-did-exploding-stars-help-life-on-earth-to-thrive
By taking me back to when I reported the victory of the pioneers of plate tectonics in their battle against the most eminent geophysicists of the day, it makes me feel 40 years younger. Shredding the textbooks, Tuzo Wilson, Dan McKenzie and Jason Morgan merrily explained earthquakes, volcanoes, mountain-building, and even the varying depth of the ocean, simply by the drift of fragments of the lithosphere in various directions around the globe.
In Svensmark’s new paper an equally concise theory, that cosmic rays from exploded stars cool the world by increasing the cloud cover, leads to amazing explanations, not least for why evolution sometimes was rampant and sometimes faltered. In both senses of the word, this is a stellar revision of the story of life.
Here are the main results:
The long-term diversity of life in the sea depends on the sea-level set by plate tectonics and the local supernova rate set by the astrophysics, and on virtually nothing else.
The long-term primary productivity of life in the sea – the net growth of photosynthetic microbes – depends on the supernova rate, and on virtually nothing else.
Exceptionally close supernovae account for short-lived falls in sea-level during the past 500 million years, long-known to geophysicists but never convincingly explained..
As the geological and astronomical records converge, the match between climate and supernova rates gets better and better, with high rates bringing icy times.
Presented with due caution as well as with consideration for the feelings of experts in several fields of research, a story unfolds in which everything meshes like well-made clockwork. Anyone who wishes to pooh-pooh any piece of it by saying “correlation is not necessarily causality” should offer some other mega-theory that says why several mutually supportive coincidences arise between events in our galactic neighbourhood and living conditions on the Earth.
An amusing point is that Svensmark stands the currently popular carbon dioxide story on its head. Some geoscientists want to blame the drastic alternations of hot and icy conditions during the past 500 million years on increases and decreases in carbon dioxide, which they explain in intricate ways. For Svensmark, the changes driven by the stars govern the amount of carbon dioxide in the air. Climate and life control CO2, not the other way around. . . .

 
Yet again... lol

More from Calder:

The Svensmark Hypothesis

. . . If this blog has sometimes seemed too cocky about the Svensmark hypothesis, it’s because I’ve known what was in the pipeline, from theories, observations and experiments, long before publication. Since 1996 the hypothesis has brought new successes year by year and has resisted umpteen attempts to falsify it.
New additions at the level of microphysics include a previously unknown reaction of sulphuric acid, as in a recent preprint. On a vastly different scale, Svensmark’s present supernova paper gives us better knowledge of the shape of the Milky Way Galaxy.A mark of a good hypothesis is that it looks better and better as time passes. With the triumph of plate tectonics, diehard opponents were left redfaced and blustering. In 1960 you’d not get a job in an American geology department if you believed in continental drift, but by 1970 you’d not get the job if you didn’t. That’s what a paradigm shift means in practice and it will happen sometime soon with cosmic rays in climate physics.
Plate tectonics was never much of a political issue, except in the Communist bloc. There, the immobility of continents was doctrinally imposed by the Soviet Academy of Sciences. An analagous diehard doctrine in climate physics went global two decades ago, when the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was conceived to insist that natural causes of climate change are minor compared with human impacts.
Don’t fret about the diehards. The glory of empirical science is this: no matter how many years, decades, or sometimes centuries it may take, in the end the story will come out right.

Roy Spencer, formerly of NASA, is an outstanding investigator of climate change using satellites. Yesterday he posted on his website this article about cosmic rays: Indirect Solar Forcing of Climate by Galactic Cosmic Rays: An Observational Estimate « Roy Spencer, PhD It starts:
“While I have been skeptical of Svensmark’s cosmic ray theory up until now, it looks like the evidence is becoming too strong for me to ignore.” And he concludes:
“The results, I must admit, are enough for me to now place at least one foot solidly in the cosmic ray theory camp.”
One swallow doesn’t make a summer, nor one Spencer a scientific revolution. But as I recall real revolutions during my lifetime as a science reporter – black holes, plate tectonics, etc, etc. — I recognise this as a sample of what a paradigm shift looks like. One by one, prominent experts and daring young researchers begin to join a new club. At first they’re counted on fingers, but eventually by faculties.
“Consensus” is a dirty word for climate sceptics, because of its misuse for 20 years by warmist scientists and their political and journalistic chums to try to stifle research and public debate. In that regard, the lack of agreement among sceptical physicists about what’s really going on has been virtuous. But the time for free-ranging and competitive hypotheses about natural climate change is drawing to an end. Some widely accepted theory of the mechanisms has to replace the computer games of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
Since Henrik Svensmark explained his hypothesis concerning cosmic rays and clouds, over a lunch of marinated herrings and lager in Copenhagen in 1996, I’ve written two books about it and helped Lars Oxfeldt Mortensen with TV films featuring Henrik. But the three of us have now waited 15 years for some kind of denouement. Ten to twenty years is a typical timescale for a paradigm shift, so maybe Henrik’s breakthrough is coming at last.
 
Yet again... lol

Third time's the charm.

The Svensmark Hypothesis


The Svensmark hypothesis in a nutshellIllustration from Svensmark, “The Adventurous Journey of Spaceship Earth” DTU Yearbook 2009

  • Cosmic rays, high-energy particles raining down from exploded stars, knock electrons out of air molecules.
  • The electrons help clusters of sulphuric acid and water molecules to form, which can grow into cloud condensation nuclei – seeds on which water droplets form to make clouds.
  • Low clouds made with liquid water droplets cool the Earth’s surface.
  • Variations in the Sun’s magnetic activity alter the influx of cosmic rays to the Earth.
  • When the Sun is lazy, magnetically speaking, there are more cosmic rays and more low clouds, and the world is cooler.
  • When the Sun is active fewer cosmic rays reach the Earth and, with fewer low clouds, the world warms up.
  • The Sun became unusually active during the 20th Century and as a result “global warming” occurred.
  • Recently (2006-2010) the Sun has been unusually lazy and “global warming” seems to have gone into reverse, as expected by the Svensmark hypothesis.
  • Coolings and warmings of around 2 deg. C have occurred repeatedly over the past 10,000 years, as the Sun’s activity and the cosmic ray influx have varied.
  • Over many millions of year, much larger variations of up to 10 deg. C occur as the Sun and Earth, travelling through the Galaxy, visit regions with more or fewer exploding stars.
For objections to the Svensmark hypothesis and answers to them, seeFalsification tests
 
Still not following the theory I see!
Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg


IPCC was saying "we don't fully understand the feedback loops that affect the interactions between heat and clouds."

Svensmark is talking about a forcing mechanism, not a type of feedback mechanism.

Svensmark isn't talking about the interactions between heat and clouds.

CRs (from outside our solar system) are a fraction of the effects of solar irradiation. And solar irradiation is (in the view of the IPCC) a tiny amount of the variation in global temperatures.

IPCC explicitly ruled out Svensmark's theories as having an effect.

If you are unable to process this, then that is officially not my problem or fault.
 
That is why you remain so uninformed.


The hypothesis the GCR's are driving climate change, or have anything to do with recent temperature trends is just a vague hunch at best. There is little evidence that GCR's are in fact an important factor in low-level cloud formation to begin with, which kind of throws a monkey wrench in the whole hypothesis before it even begins.

There's also the troubling fact that GCR's have been increasing in numbers, which should act to sow more low-level clouds, and increase the Earths albedo. So the hypothesis is currently predicting a long term cooling trend, which hasn't been seen. The correlation between temperature and GCR is simply debunked by known trends in the Earth's atmosphere.

Krivova, N. A. & Solanki, S. K.
krivova_2003.gif

2003ESASP.535..275K Page 282

These two facts alone should be enough to sink the theory, but my years of experience with climate contrarians tells me, you don't really care what the facts are, and just wish to muddy the waters with your sloppy science.
 
IPCC explicitly ruled out Svensmark's theories as having an effect.

If you are unable to process this, then that is officially not my problem or fault.

Per Shaviv, solar influence on climate is five to ten times greater than IPCC admits.
 
The hypothesis the GCR's are driving climate change, or have anything to do with recent temperature trends is just a vague hunch at best. There is little evidence that GCR's are in fact an important factor in low-level cloud formation to begin with, which kind of throws a monkey wrench in the whole hypothesis before it even begins.

There's also the troubling fact that GCR's have been increasing in numbers, which should act to sow more low-level clouds, and increase the Earths albedo. So the hypothesis is currently predicting a long term cooling trend, which hasn't been seen. The correlation between temperature and GCR is simply debunked by known trends in the Earth's atmosphere.

Krivova, N. A. & Solanki, S. K.
krivova_2003.gif

2003ESASP.535..275K Page 282

These two facts alone should be enough to sink the theory, but my years of experience with climate contrarians tells me, you don't really care what the facts are, and just wish to muddy the waters with your sloppy science.

Actually, the cooling trend has begun.
 
Judith Curry is actually an AGW believer.
Please.

On her site right now is a post by "Javier" which claims that the warming we see now is 100% perfectly normal and in line with previous natural cycles. While the author (whoever the heck Javier is) admits that the rise in CO2 is due to human activity, he denies that this has any actual impact on global temperatures.
https://judithcurry.com/2018/02/26/nature-unbound-viii-modern-global-warming/


You are again uninformed.
The point of the CLOUD links was to illustrate the range of results achieved over the years.
Yes, and the reason I pointed you to the CLOUD article, which summarized 10 years of work by that lab, was to point out that it did not find any reason to attribute any of the climate change we've seen to variations in CR.


I note you continue to dodge the Shaviv links. That is perhaps wise on your part.
lol

I've already discussed Shaviv in this thread. You are welcome to chase your own tail. I have no interest in pointing out, yet again, that Shaviv is a shill for denialism.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/envi...crs-clouds-and-climate-13.html#post1067965115
 
Radiation Transfer Calculations and Assessment of Global ... - Hindawi

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijas/2017/9251034/


by H Harde - ‎2017 - ‎Cited by 2 - ‎Related articles
Nov 1, 2016 - We present detailed line-by-line radiation transfer calculations, which were performed under different atmospheric conditions for the most important greenhouse gases water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and ozone. Particularly cloud effects, surface temperature variations, and humidity changes as well ...

[h=4]Abstract[/h]
We present detailed line-by-line radiation transfer calculations, which were performed under different atmospheric conditions for the most important greenhouse gases water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and ozone. Particularly cloud effects, surface temperature variations, and humidity changes as well as molecular lineshape effects are investigated to examine their specific influence on some basic climatologic parameters like the radiative forcing, the long wave absorptivity, and back-radiation as a function of an increasing CO2concentration in the atmosphere. These calculations are used to assess the CO2 global warming by means of an advanced two-layer climate model and to disclose some larger discrepancies in calculating the climate sensitivity. Including solar and cloud effects as well as all relevant feedback processes our simulations give an equilibrium climate sensitivity of

= 0.7°C (temperature increase at doubled CO2) and a solar sensitivity of

= 0.17°C (at 0.1% increase of the total solar irradiance). Then CO2 contributes 40% and the Sun 60% to global warming over the last century.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
Please.

On her site right now is a post by "Javier" which claims that the warming we see now is 100% perfectly normal and in line with previous natural cycles. While the author (whoever the heck Javier is) admits that the rise in CO2 is due to human activity, he denies that this has any actual impact on global temperatures.
https://judithcurry.com/2018/02/26/nature-unbound-viii-modern-global-warming/



Yes, and the reason I pointed you to the CLOUD article, which summarized 10 years of work by that lab, was to point out that it did not find any reason to attribute any of the climate change we've seen to variations in CR.



lol

I've already discussed Shaviv in this thread. You are welcome to chase your own tail. I have no interest in pointing out, yet again, that Shaviv is a shill for denialism.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/envi...crs-clouds-and-climate-13.html#post1067965115

Hmmm. What does the Institute for Advanced Study (IAS) know that you don't? Normally I'd assume you know this, but I've learned not to take anything for granted. IAS was where Einstein worked after emigrating to the US. I think you're afraid.
 
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