Susan Collins tries to ‘Trump proof’ the 2024 election — behind Trump’s back

[j brown's body]

"As Congress debates how to reform our electoral counting procedures to safeguard against another coup attempt, a strange two-track dynamic has set in. On one track, Donald Trump and his allies are loudly telegraphing their intentions to rerun his 2020 scheme in 2024 — albeit with more allies installed in key positions this time. On the other track, a handful of Republicans are trying to assemble reforms that will foil any such future Trump attempt — while carefully saying little about the gigantic elephant in the room, i.e. that the 2024 threat comes from Trump himself. Susan Collins (R-Maine) has a new piece outlining her support for reform that underscores this dynamic. In a way, Collins and other Republicans in her camp are trying to “Trump proof” our elections — behind Trump’s back. This hints at how reform might happen, if it is to happen at all.

Collins does note that the holes in the ECA are what created an avenue for Trump to try to overturn his loss. She points out that in pressuring his vice president, Mike Pence, to refuse to count Joe Biden’s electors, Trump tried to exploit the ECA’s lack of clarity on the vice president’s role. Collins also points out that the ECA’s problems helped spark the Jan. 6 insurrection. Trump incited his mob to attack the Capitol, where they tried to search out Pence and delay the count of electors, apparently acting on the idea that this procedural coup actually was possible.

Collins’s piece suggests Republicans are examining ECA reforms that would clarify the vice president’s role and make it harder for Congress to invalidate legitimate electors (another thing Trump tried to make happen). Those things are essential. But they’re not enough: We can’t only fight the last war here. Another threat comes from the possibility that in 2024, a single GOP governor might send fake electors for Trump, and a GOP-controlled House run by a Speaker McCarthy could count them. As I’ve reported, if this happens, it might actually work under the current ECA. And there are basic additional reforms that would fix this."

Link

Can they pass a bill to protect our democracy without waking the elephant in the room?

 

[ataraxia]

Well whatever it is they need to fix, they need to do it soon before 2024. Trump and his minions are hard at work to make sure they learn from their mistakes in 2020, and to get it right the next time. Their bullet just barely grazed America's ear this last time. They are reloading and making sure they make the necessary adjustments to properly aim between the eyes next time.

 

[element94]

I think the 50 some percent on the right will prevail over the radical cultitist 30 some percent on the right.

Most Republicans Think Pence Had No Right To Overturn Trump’s Election Loss, Poll Finds

2020 election results are far from the first issue on Republican voters’ minds, according to a Quinnipiac poll.

www.forbes.com

 

[Craig234]

I think the 50 some percent on the right will prevail over the radical cultitist 30 some percent on the right.

What percent of Republicans support trump? What percent Pence?

 

[element94]

What percent of Republicans support trump? What percent Pence?

It's in the link: the 30+ percent support Trump's attempt to overturn the election.

 

[LouC]

"As Congress debates how to reform our electoral counting procedures to safeguard against another coup attempt, a strange two-track dynamic has set in. On one track, Donald Trump and his allies are loudly telegraphing their intentions to rerun his 2020 scheme in 2024 — albeit with more allies installed in key positions this time. On the other track, a handful of Republicans are trying to assemble reforms that will foil any such future Trump attempt — while carefully saying little about the gigantic elephant in the room, i.e. that the 2024 threat comes from Trump himself. Susan Collins (R-Maine) has a new piece outlining her support for reform that underscores this dynamic. In a way, Collins and other Republicans in her camp are trying to “Trump proof” our elections — behind Trump’s back. This hints at how reform might happen, if it is to happen at all.

Collins does note that the holes in the ECA are what created an avenue for Trump to try to overturn his loss. She points out that in pressuring his vice president, Mike Pence, to refuse to count Joe Biden’s electors, Trump tried to exploit the ECA’s lack of clarity on the vice president’s role. Collins also points out that the ECA’s problems helped spark the Jan. 6 insurrection. Trump incited his mob to attack the Capitol, where they tried to search out Pence and delay the count of electors, apparently acting on the idea that this procedural coup actually was possible.

Collins’s piece suggests Republicans are examining ECA reforms that would clarify the vice president’s role and make it harder for Congress to invalidate legitimate electors (another thing Trump tried to make happen). Those things are essential. But they’re not enough: We can’t only fight the last war here. Another threat comes from the possibility that in 2024, a single GOP governor might send fake electors for Trump, and a GOP-controlled House run by a Speaker McCarthy could count them. As I’ve reported, if this happens, it might actually work under the current ECA. And there are basic additional reforms that would fix this."

Link

Can they pass a bill to protect our democracy without waking the elephant in the room?

The elephant in the room is woke!

 

[j brown's body]

I think the 50 some percent on the right will prevail over the radical cultitist 30 some percent on the right.

This is the real danger which Trump has the GOP working on:

"Another threat comes from the possibility that in 2024, a single GOP governor might send fake electors for Trump, and a GOP-controlled House run by a Speaker McCarthy could count them. As I’ve reported, if this happens, it might actually work under the current ECA."

 

[Warcok]

I don't read options from fake news

 

[Craig234]

It's in the link: the 30+ percent support Trump's attempt to overturn the election.

That wasn't my question.

 

[Warcok]

 

[element94]

That wasn't my question.

With relevancy to the topic of this thread? I've posted that. 50+ percent in that poll sided with Pence's actions of not subverting democracy. 30+ percent are OK with subverting democracy, you know, the Trump cultists. I think this is a new development and worth mentioning.

 

[Craig234]

With relevancy to the topic of this thread? I've posted that. 50+ percent in that poll sided with Pence's actions of not subverting democracy. 30+ percent are OK with subverting democracy, you know, the Trump cultists. I think this is a new development and worth mentioning.

Yes, with relevancy to the topic. More than yours. If someone, knowing all we know, says they still support trump for president, then that's what's relevant, not whether they say they like his coup plan or not. Their input is whether to vote for him. He doesn't call them up and ask for their permission on the coup.

 

[element94]

Yes, with relevancy to the topic. More than yours. If someone, knowing all we know, says they still support trump for president, then that's what's relevant, not whether they say they like his coup plan or not. Their input is whether to vote for him. He doesn't call them up and ask for their permission on the coup.

That poll shows a somewhat significant crack developing, and that is relevant, especialy regarding elections, no matter what you say.

 

[Craig234]

That poll shows a somewhat significant crack developing, and that is relevant, especialy regarding elections, no matter what you say.

No matter what I say? Now you're just being hostile. Yes, there is a crack developing. Yes, that is important. And I no longer care to discuss the topic you did not answer with you.

 

[element94]

No matter what I say? Now you're just being hostile. Yes, there is a crack developing. Yes, that is important. And I no longer care to discuss the topic you did not answer with you.

What are you going on about?

 

[WorldWatcher]

... and make it harder for Congress to invalidate legitimate electors ...t in the room?

Personally I don't think that part of the Electoral College Act (now 3USC § 15 EC Vote Counting) really needs a lot of updating to make it more difficult.

Currently:

• And objection must me submitted in writing and state the nature of the objection.
• The objection must be signed by a Senator and a Representative.
• The counting must stop.
• When such an objection is received both houses adjourn to their respective chambers for debate.
• The EC votes are only rejected if BOTH the Senate and the House approve the objection.

I think there is plenty of safety there already.

Under the current law:

• Counting stops for each objection.
• There is no time limit on debate.

Only changes I would make would be:

• All objections must be submitted PRIOR to counting starts. By having the submissions at the beginning of the process, adjournment and voting on the objections can occur all at once with a vote on each objection then taken during adjournment.
• Set a time limit for debate and voting (for example 2 hours per objection with a maximum of 24 hours).
• If the Senator (or House) fails to vote on an objection, the objections is considered rejected at the end of the time limit because the vote must be taken to uphold the objection.
• Senate and Representatives are required to remain in present during any debate and may not leave the chambers except during scheduled lavatory and meal breaks.
• Once counting states, no objections will be considered value.

WW

 

[Luce]

What are you going on about?

He does this from time to time. I'm pretty sure he has me on ignore because I violated some weird rule that exists only in his head.

 

[Cope]

What percent of Republicans support trump? What percent Pence?

I lightly consider myself Republican. I don't know that I have ever thought about my support as support of a person, it is support of an office. My ideals are such that the office is an office that is deserved of respect, not so much the person.
No one person, or set of people are more worthy than what I consider the USA (as a whole)
I think lots of people, if you deep dive, think this way.

If you do not, it is likely that you are very easy to manipulate and take on cultist like qualities. Likely every dictator in power today and in times past likely came to be that way exactly like this. People should not cede power to individuals, they cede power to be taken back, if necessary, to the ideal. (The Constitution)

 

[soap box]

"As Congress debates how to reform our electoral counting procedures to safeguard against another coup attempt, a strange two-track dynamic has set in. On one track, Donald Trump and his allies are loudly telegraphing their intentions to rerun his 2020 scheme in 2024 — albeit with more allies installed in key positions this time. On the other track, a handful of Republicans are trying to assemble reforms that will foil any such future Trump attempt — while carefully saying little about the gigantic elephant in the room, i.e. that the 2024 threat comes from Trump himself. Susan Collins (R-Maine) has a new piece outlining her support for reform that underscores this dynamic. In a way, Collins and other Republicans in her camp are trying to “Trump proof” our elections — behind Trump’s back. This hints at how reform might happen, if it is to happen at all.

Collins does note that the holes in the ECA are what created an avenue for Trump to try to overturn his loss. She points out that in pressuring his vice president, Mike Pence, to refuse to count Joe Biden’s electors, Trump tried to exploit the ECA’s lack of clarity on the vice president’s role. Collins also points out that the ECA’s problems helped spark the Jan. 6 insurrection. Trump incited his mob to attack the Capitol, where they tried to search out Pence and delay the count of electors, apparently acting on the idea that this procedural coup actually was possible.

Collins’s piece suggests Republicans are examining ECA reforms that would clarify the vice president’s role and make it harder for Congress to invalidate legitimate electors (another thing Trump tried to make happen). Those things are essential. But they’re not enough: We can’t only fight the last war here. Another threat comes from the possibility that in 2024, a single GOP governor might send fake electors for Trump, and a GOP-controlled House run by a Speaker McCarthy could count them. As I’ve reported, if this happens, it might actually work under the current ECA. And there are basic additional reforms that would fix this."

Link

Can they pass a bill to protect our democracy without waking the elephant in the room?

I'm not opposed to legislation that clarifies the process, or that makes declarations about the role of the VP, that is becoming more and more important, but I'm wondering would changes end up needing a new amendment or a revision of the 12th?

 

[reflechissez]

I lightly consider myself Republican. I don't know that I have ever thought about my support as support of a person, it is support of an office. My ideals are such that the office is an office that is deserved of respect, not so much the person.
No one person, or set of people are more worthy than what I consider the USA (as a whole)
I think lots of people, if you deep dive, think this way.

If you do not, it is likely that you are very easy to manipulate and take on cultist like qualities. Likely every dictator in power today and in times past likely came to be that way exactly like this. People should not cede power to individuals, they cede power to be taken back, if necessary, to the ideal. (The Constitution)

That was a bunch of bullshit.

 

[justabubba]

any of this driven by a fear that kamila might do in 2025 what pence did not in 2021?

when susan collins is behind this, you know our nation is in trouble

 

[j brown's body]

any of this driven by a fear that kamila might do in 2025 what pence did not in 2021?

when susan collins is behind this, you know our nation is in trouble

I don't think the vice president is the real concern. Its states sending fake electors and Congress accepting them. Or rejecting the electos and sending the decision to the House to vote on.

 

[Cope]

That was a bunch of bullshit.

...Thread shitting becomes you.

 

[Integrityrespec]

"As Congress debates how to reform our electoral counting procedures to safeguard against another coup attempt, a strange two-track dynamic has set in. On one track, Donald Trump and his allies are loudly telegraphing their intentions to rerun his 2020 scheme in 2024 — albeit with more allies installed in key positions this time. On the other track, a handful of Republicans are trying to assemble reforms that will foil any such future Trump attempt — while carefully saying little about the gigantic elephant in the room, i.e. that the 2024 threat comes from Trump himself. Susan Collins (R-Maine) has a new piece outlining her support for reform that underscores this dynamic. In a way, Collins and other Republicans in her camp are trying to “Trump proof” our elections — behind Trump’s back. This hints at how reform might happen, if it is to happen at all.

Collins does note that the holes in the ECA are what created an avenue for Trump to try to overturn his loss. She points out that in pressuring his vice president, Mike Pence, to refuse to count Joe Biden’s electors, Trump tried to exploit the ECA’s lack of clarity on the vice president’s role. Collins also points out that the ECA’s problems helped spark the Jan. 6 insurrection. Trump incited his mob to attack the Capitol, where they tried to search out Pence and delay the count of electors, apparently acting on the idea that this procedural coup actually was possible.

Collins’s piece suggests Republicans are examining ECA reforms that would clarify the vice president’s role and make it harder for Congress to invalidate legitimate electors (another thing Trump tried to make happen). Those things are essential. But they’re not enough: We can’t only fight the last war here. Another threat comes from the possibility that in 2024, a single GOP governor might send fake electors for Trump, and a GOP-controlled House run by a Speaker McCarthy could count them. As I’ve reported, if this happens, it might actually work under the current ECA. And there are basic additional reforms that would fix this."

Link

Can they pass a bill to protect our democracy without waking the elephant in the room?

I hope you post as many concerns about the Electoral College Compact where democrats have stated repeatedly they could seat electors by the national vote total and not the state total to change the electoral count in their state.

 

[reflechissez]

...Thread shitting becomes you.

You too, my dear.