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Surprise, surprise, states with lower vaccine rates seeing rise in covid cases

...except that my post utterly and completely demolishes the claim that "COVID rises in the summer."

And I am not making the claim that we're seeing massive surges anywhere in the US right now.

Try not to cherry pick, mmkay?


Nope, just one. The data is quite clear that your "indoor" theory doesn't hold -- unless you believe that Idaho, Washington State and Oregon are scorching in the summer, and Illinois, Maryland and Virginia are not.

And again... We aren't seeing huge leaps in cases, despite states relaxing restrictions, and both Western and Southwestern states getting nailed with a massive heat wave. It's clear that the vaccine is significantly slowing the spread of COVID, even in states with lower vaccination rates.

And even that one may not be anywhere near as important as factors such as social distancing, vaccination rate, replication rate of specific variants, and so on. E.g. "people staying indoors" doesn't spread the virus, except when people start to associate with large groups indoors.


Whatever, dude. Nothing in my post cited the media.

I'm sure your sudden realization that you were assisting my argument upset your equilibrium, but it remains that my position has been yours...we aren't seeing any significant surges at all among low vaccinated (or other) states. The OP, of course, claims otherwise...comrade!

Nor do I believe that COVID must rise in summer. But I do believe that COVID has had a tendency to rise is summer in those states where people are driven from outdoors to indoors under AC (as compared to winter), all other things being equal. This tendency is but one of many contributing factors that may, or may not, cause a minor surge in cases this summer.

And yes, I agree, it may or may not mitigated by social distancing, vaccination totals, or variants. But "people staying indoors" compared to outdoors does spread the virus - read the literature (or note the experience of NY where 2/3rds of their infections were caught at home). Regardless of size of home (family to nursing homes) or public facilities the virus vector of transmission of almost entirely indoors is undisputed.

What is particularly bemusing is that the dread of agreeing on this point is utterly driven by the partisan terror of finding agreement with someone on the right - so much so it has created incoherent denial on what is commonly thought.

You see, I'm not relying on anti-vaxxers or Trumpers ... I read LIBERAL left trusted sources. YEP NATE SILVER and VOX. Not only has Silver run regressions on this correlations but VOX publishes it as a public concern on msn:


But experts are increasingly worried that, in the southern half of the country, the return to normalcy could be a mirage and that summer could bring another wave of the virus in parts of the country. “I’m definitely worried,” Saskia Popescu, an epidemiologist at George Mason University, told me.

The concern isn’t about another nationwide surge, but potential state or local spikes. That’s because southern states, including much of the Sun Belt and especially the Deep South, face three distinct disadvantages this summer that other parts of the country don’t.


One of those disadvantages are lower vaccination rates, another is southerners being less willing to social distance, and the last is that of SOUTHERN SUMMERS and its effect on driving people indoors (got that?).

2) Higher temperatures: While the summer brings outdoor activities for northern parts of the US, it can do the opposite for southern states. As the heat climbs past the 90s and into the 100s, people tend to go into air-conditioned or at least closed-off indoor areas. That’s bad news for the spread of Covid-19, since the virus has a much easier time spreading in indoor, poorly ventilated spaces. This seemed to lead to more spread in the Sun Belt last summer.

“I don’t think people understand how hard it is to be outside in the summer here,” Popescu, who lives in Arizona, said. “Even late at night, it’s like 100 degrees in the summer. So it’s not easy to tell people to go outside. And it’s really hard for businesses, especially restaurants and bars, to keep the doors open, the windows open — it’s like opening the oven door when you’re baking cookies, you get that blast of heat.”...Put these three factors together, and it’s possible that southern states could see a repeat of last summer, when Covid-19 cases at first hit low levels then surged.

So as I said and will repeat until the mace of reason pounds it home...

"Therefore, as last year, it would not be surprising where those same states will bump a little higher - ALTHOUGH there is no proof that has done so, so far."
 
I'm sure your sudden realization that you were assisting my argument upset your equilibrium....
No, it didn't. Not even to the slightest degree. The stats are all public, and my first post in this thread clearly stated that we haven't seen a big bump in cases yet.

Nor do I believe that COVID must rise in summer. But I do believe that COVID has had a tendency to rise is summer....
...and your belief is simply wrong, as (again) shown by public statistics on COVID cases. Repeating your flawed reasoning doesn't magically make it true.

What is particularly bemusing is that the dread of agreeing on this point is utterly driven by the partisan terror....
Yawn... There is no "partisan terror" here. Just actual evidence, which so far indicates that if COVID has or develops a seasonal component, it will be basically the same as influenza (hitting mostly in the winter). Even that isn't clear yet.

You see, I'm not relying on anti-vaxxers or Trumpers ... I read LIBERAL left trusted sources. YEP NATE SILVER and VOX.
So, does that mean you agree with the experts who say that southern states could get hit this summer because of low vaccination rates and lower adherence to precautions? Are you good with Lopez' recommendation for people to get vaccinated, in order to prevent local surges?

I don't see any articles by Silver on this topic. So, I will see your one epidemiologist, and raise you. Frontiers in Public Health article talking about why COVID might be seasonal (meaning winter, not "winter and summer").

JAMA opinion article that talks about COVID being a seasonal (winter) illness.

A paper in Virus that suggests COVID will probably just become like other seasonal coronaviruses (which surge in winter... not summer)

It's not just about staying indoors. It's also about the amounts and exposure to UV (which even kill some germs indoors); how coronaviruses generally do not survive as long in colder and drier conditions; how cold and dry air makes your respiratory system more vulnerable to illness; how immune systems don't work as well during winter. The aforementioned family holidays don't help.

And... this is borne out by looking at COVID stats. What a concept.
 
Isn't it funny how anytime a Con gets their argument destroyed, they either pull the TDS or media card.? Usually both actually.
 
The most reliable factor showing increases in Covid cases in any area is rate of vaccination.

The most reliable factor showing low rate of vaccination is political leaning.

Apparently, Trump supporters value their lives less than others do.

That's okay with me.
 
The most reliable factor showing increases in Covid cases in any area is rate of vaccination.

The most reliable factor showing low rate of vaccination is political leaning.

Apparently, Trump supporters value their lives less than others do.

That's okay with me.
Where oh where did you get this?
If political leaning was a reliable indicator of vaccination, African Americans would be the highest vaccinated group in the country, instead of the lowest...
 
this one didn't go away in the summer...it kept right on forward....we have 600k deaths and we are into summer again.it is only slowing down now because of the vaccinations.

a) this has essentially receded but last years summer peak was into July. So we shall still have to see.

b) there is no exclusive reason that has been determined to have slowed it down. CDC modeling didn't even predict the severe and early downturn in cases before vaccinations took effect. But most likely vaccinations are part of it, so is natural herd immunity, so is the nature of Farr's law of cyclical peaking of epidemics (eg 1918 flu) etc. Whether or not vaccinations, naturally acquired herd immunity, or the exhaustion of a vulnerable population (or all three) won't be really clear until studies are done in years hence.

Remember, the 1918 pandemic went away after three or so major waves over 15 or so months...without a vaccine.
 
Where oh where did you get this?
If political leaning was a reliable indicator of vaccination, African Americans would be the highest vaccinated group in the country, instead of the lowest...
African Americans are not the only democrats.
 
African Americans are not the only democrats.
No, but they are much, much, much more likely to vote Democrat than white people; again, this shows that if political leaning were a reliable indicator of vaccination, something like 80% of African Americans would be vaccinated, and just 50% of white people.

But that's not what the statistics tell us. It's a talking point that is disproved by the data.
 
No, but they are much, much, much more likely to vote Democrat than white people; again, this shows that if political leaning were a reliable indicator of vaccination, something like 80% of African Americans would be vaccinated, and just 50% of white people.

But that's not what the statistics tell us. It's a talking point that is disproved by the data.
Tuskegee. Thanks for stopping by.
 
Tuskegee. Thanks for stopping by.
Wait, are you now arguing that people have reasons to not get vaccinated?

I mean, that's a stupid argument that goes against science, reality, common sense and overall community safety, but sure, doctors prescribed Thalidomide which did cause birth defects a few generations ago, so don't get vaccinated.

Dumb.

And also, back to the point, political leaning is not a reliable indicator of vaccination...
 
I'm going to look at the glass half full.
I'm encouraged by the fact that so many people HAVE gotten vaccinated and things are pretty much back to normal.

I have pulled orbital muscles rolling my eyes listening to people explain why they haven't gotten it.
 
Wait, are you now arguing that people have reasons to not get vaccinated?

I mean, that's a stupid argument that goes against science, reality, common sense and overall community safety, but sure, doctors prescribed Thalidomide which did cause birth defects a few generations ago, so don't get vaccinated.

Dumb.

And also, back to the point, political leaning is not a reliable indicator of vaccination...
many are convinced by internet anti vaxxers that vaccines are bad...and that they are being used as lab rats...because of history and the way they have actually been treated as lab rats, they are afraid...
 
So, does that mean you agree with the experts who say that southern states could get hit this summer because of low vaccination rates and lower adherence to precautions? Are you good with Lopez' recommendation for people to get vaccinated, in order to prevent local surges?

I don't agree nor disagree about what "could" happen. I do agree, however, that southern states may experience experience a small rise because regardless the comparative vaccination rankings, there is a seasonal component due to increased usage of AC conditioned facilities.

And Silver's discussion of his analysis is in this tweets starting on June 21, 2020. Some selections follows (may be some duplicates):











I don't see any articles by Silver on this topic. So, I will see your one epidemiologist, and raise you. Frontiers in Public Health article talking about why COVID might be seasonal (meaning winter, not "winter and summer").
...

Unfortunately (for you) you can't raise the stakes with monopoly money. None the the three papers you cite seem to even discuss southern state summer behavior and its relationship to indoor usage and hence a factor that could increase rates of infection in those states in summer. Moreover, they also agree with my opinion that there is likely a seasonal component (Winter being significantly worse than summer) and that too has been borne out in the last 15 months.

Finally, I've also said there are other factors, including the fact that outdoors reduce transmission due to low concentrations of virus, perhaps exposure to UV, and excessive heat. None the less it would seem (as in 2020) in certain states the oppressive heat was a larger factor in summer to indoor congregate usage than in other states.
 
I'm going to look at the glass half full.
I'm encouraged by the fact that so many people HAVE gotten vaccinated and things are pretty much back to normal.

I have pulled orbital muscles rolling my eyes listening to people explain why they haven't gotten it.
Tuskegee, apparently...
 
many are convinced by internet anti vaxxers that vaccines are bad...and that they are being used as lab rats...because of history and the way they have actually been treated as lab rats, they are afraid...
Yes, there are a large number of reasons covidiots give for not getting vaccinated; none of them sensical, but they do have many to list.

The point remains that political leaning is not the best indicator of an individual's vaccination likelihood.
 
The most reliable factor showing increases in Covid cases in any area is rate of vaccination.

The most reliable factor showing low rate of vaccination is political leaning.

Apparently, Trump supporters value their lives less than others do.

That's okay with me.
It's been seen in cults for quite some time, nothing new there.
 
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