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Supreme Court to hear violent video game case

danarhea

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The U.S. Supreme Court will hear arguments Tuesday about the federal court's decision to throw out California's ban on violent games, marking the first time a case involving the interactive medium itself has gone before the Supreme Court. It's another sign that the $20 billion-a-year industry, long considered to be just child's play, is now all grown up.
And I hope that SCOTUS does the right thing by striking down the California law that treats violent video games much like pornography. It is none of the government's business what the general public purchases in the way of games. Oh yes it is, some are bound to say. Violent video games affect our children, right? Um, wrong. There has been violence on TV for ages. Do we ban TV shows? How about guns? Should we ban those too?

The government is a government, not a damn nanny!!

End.Of.Discussion - Well not quite, and not yet. But you can count on the fact that SCOTUS will end that discussion soon. Governments need to be out of our private lives, and I predict a 100% probability that this is what SCOTUS will rule. And thank you, George Bush, for appointing the right judges to decide this issue. No government ant farms for me, thank you.

Article is here.
 

Deuce

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Ahhh the good ol' Cocoon Mother lobby, the folks who think children MUST be protected at all costs from swear words, violence, and boobs, until they turn 18. Because if little jimmy hears the word ****, his poor little brain will just explode for some reason. Also, boobs will scar him for life. Somehow. Violence? Surely little Jimmy can't tell the difference between fake and real, if we let him play Mortal Kombat he might shoot fireballs out of his hands and tear someones head off, bringing the spinal cord with it.
 

TacticalEvilDan

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Surely little Jimmy can't tell the difference between fake and real, if we let him play Mortal Kombat he might shoot fireballs out of his hands and tear someones head off, bringing the spinal cord with it.
That actually sounds to me like a good reason to expose kids to Mortal Kombat. :lol:
 

RightinNYC

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Ahhh the good ol' Cocoon Mother lobby, the folks who think children MUST be protected at all costs from swear words, violence, and boobs, until they turn 18. Because if little jimmy hears the word ****, his poor little brain will just explode for some reason. Also, boobs will scar him for life. Somehow. Violence? Surely little Jimmy can't tell the difference between fake and real, if we let him play Mortal Kombat he might shoot fireballs out of his hands and tear someones head off, bringing the spinal cord with it.
Speaking of Jon Stewart's call for sanity and reasonableness...

C'mon man, are you really saying that you think it's insane that some people don't want to let little kids check out M-rated video games? We already have a near-identical system in place for movies, yet nobody really bitches about that.

Unless you firmly believe that 8 year olds should be able to walk in and see/purchase anything they want from porn to gore-fetish videos, then you presumably think we should draw a line somewhere. These people think the same thing. Rather than acting like they're lunatics, why not explain why your preferred line is better than theirs?
 

Redress

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Just to be clear Dan, the law bans the sale or rental of M(mature) rated video games from children. It's not an overall ban. I am a video game fan, and I am split on this. I can see both sides of this.

Edit: OMG, I just agreed with a conservative...
 
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Lord Tammerlain

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Speaking of Jon Stewart's call for sanity and reasonableness...

C'mon man, are you really saying that you think it's insane that some people don't want to let little kids check out M-rated video games? We already have a near-identical system in place for movies, yet nobody really bitches about that.

Unless you firmly believe that 8 year olds should be able to walk in and see/purchase anything they want from porn to gore-fetish videos, then you presumably think we should draw a line somewhere. These people think the same thing. Rather than acting like they're lunatics, why not explain why your preferred line is better than theirs?
Given the costs of video games compared to movies it is unlikely a child will be able to buy video games on their own without the support of their parents. Also most parents will see said video game in their house. Which will allow any parent who does not lile said video games to prevent their child from buying it or at least playing it if the child somehow bought it.

Unlike movies which are cheap enough that childern can go see on on their alllowance, and they can do so without thier parents knowing what movie they went to see.

Overall a parent who shows even a little amount of parenting can prevent their child from playing "mature " games, it would require a fair bit more to control what movies the kid went to see.


Basically their is no need for a ban on the sale of mature video games. They already have ratings on them, any parent can see the rating and determine if they want their childern to play it or not
 

RightinNYC

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Given the costs of video games compared to movies it is unlikely a child will be able to buy video games on their own without the support of their parents. Also most parents will see said video game in their house. Which will allow any parent who does not lile said video games to prevent their child from buying it or at least playing it if the child somehow bought it.

Unlike movies which are cheap enough that childern can go see on on their alllowance, and they can do so without thier parents knowing what movie they went to see.

Overall a parent who shows even a little amount of parenting can prevent their child from playing "mature " games, it would require a fair bit more to control what movies the kid went to see.


Basically their is no need for a ban on the sale of mature video games. They already have ratings on them, any parent can see the rating and determine if they want their childern to play it or not
DVD's cost $20, video games cost $40-60. I really don't see how kids would be able to afford one but not the other, or how kids would be able to sneak one around but not the other.

The point is that this is in no way some heavy handed authoritarian policy limiting free speech.
 

Redress

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DVD's cost $20, video games cost $40-60. I really don't see how kids would be able to afford one but not the other, or how kids would be able to sneak one around but not the other.

The point is that this is in no way some heavy handed authoritarian policy limiting free speech.
Further, this also includes video game rentals, which is a much lower cost. Also, you guys are assuming new and current. I can get some video games for as low as 5 bucks that are not current, but can include M rating.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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DVD's cost $20, video games cost $40-60. I really don't see how kids would be able to afford one but not the other, or how kids would be able to sneak one around but not the other.

The point is that this is in no way some heavy handed authoritarian policy limiting free speech.
When talking about movies I meant about the child actually going to the theater, not buying a DVD

A parent has the ability to determine what a child watches in their own home, not so much at a movie theater. I dont mind the government helping to supervise childern when the parent can not, but when the parent has the ability to do the job, the government should not
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Further, this also includes video game rentals, which is a much lower cost. Also, you guys are assuming new and current. I can get some video games for as low as 5 bucks that are not current, but can include M rating.
And the kid will have to take the game home where the parent could see what game the kid is playing correct?
 

Redress

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And the kid will have to take the game home where the parent could see what game the kid is playing correct?
Not necessarily.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support the law, and am fundamentally divided on whether it is a good idea or not, but I can see the arguments for it.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Not necessarily.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support the law, and am fundamentally divided on whether it is a good idea or not, but I can see the arguments for it.
I see the arguements for it as well.

But assuming the parent/s do any sort of parenting this should not be an issue, they should know what games their childern are playing in their own home. They can not control what their childern do outside of the home, but certainly can inside it

Which means the law should be useless, and I dont like additional useless laws
 

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I see the arguements for it as well.

But assuming the parent/s do any sort of parenting this should not be an issue, they should know what games their childern are playing in their own home. They can not control what their childern do outside of the home, but certainly can inside it

Which means the law should be useless, and I dont like additional useless laws
The bolded part contradicts your last sentence.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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The bolded part contradicts your last sentence.
Not really

Most video games that are mature in nature need to be played on consoles and a tv. The kids may be able to buy the game, but taking it home and playing it is another story.


Going to a movie at the theater you dont take the movie home to watch it on the big screen tv in the rec room, where mommy can walk in and see what you are watching and take it away. A parent should not have a difficult time knowing what games their childern are playing at home or what movies they watch at home, they will have a difficult time knowing what movie they saw at the theater
 

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Not really

Most video games that are mature in nature need to be played on consoles and a tv. The kids may be able to buy the game, but taking it home and playing it is another story.


Going to a movie at the theater you dont take the movie home to watch it on the big screen tv in the rec room, where mommy can walk in and see what you are watching and take it away. A parent should not have a difficult time knowing what games their childern are playing at home or what movies they watch at home, they will have a difficult time knowing what movie they saw at the theater
I had a friend when I was a kid whose parents where gone alot. I went over there to watch R rated videotapes and other things my parents would not approve of. They do not have to bring it home to access a rented video game.
 

RightinNYC

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Not really

Most video games that are mature in nature need to be played on consoles and a tv. The kids may be able to buy the game, but taking it home and playing it is another story.


Going to a movie at the theater you dont take the movie home to watch it on the big screen tv in the rec room, where mommy can walk in and see what you are watching and take it away. A parent should not have a difficult time knowing what games their childern are playing at home or what movies they watch at home, they will have a difficult time knowing what movie they saw at the theater
I just don't think that this really plays out the way you're describing it. Most kids play video games on the same TV they would watch a movie on. If the parents are going to catch them doing one, they can catch them doing the other. Moreover, if the game in question is a video game, the kid will probably be playing it on the computer, which is equally easy to keep from the parents.
 

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Ahhh the good ol' Cocoon Mother lobby, the folks who think children MUST be protected at all costs from swear words, violence, and boobs, until they turn 18. Because if little jimmy hears the word ****, his poor little brain will just explode for some reason. Also, boobs will scar him for life. Somehow. Violence? Surely little Jimmy can't tell the difference between fake and real, if we let him play Mortal Kombat he might shoot fireballs out of his hands and tear someones head off, bringing the spinal cord with it.
Children are impressionable. They are wired at birth to be impressionable. That is how they are able to assimilate information and learn. This literal open mindedness is an important part of our genetic makeup. If you give a gun to a child and have some father figure tell them that they are supposed to kill someone, they will do it without any sense of regret.

Some people never are able to grow up and learn to differentiate between reality and fiction. However, we arbitrarily decide that 18 is going to be the magic age of majority (although you still presumed not to be able to handle alcohol -- go figure).

I don't see that kids will be harmed by being prevented from buying violent games, especially one that reward gratuitous violence. It isn't really a violation of their rights because they don't have the same rights as adults -- never have had them, probably never will have them. The rights of children are defined by what harms them not by what they want to do.

It is already accepted that it is OK to prevent kids from going to an R-rated movie without their parents or to an X-rated movie at all. It is OK to prevent them from buying pornographic material. They will not be harmed by not being able to buy it.

I personally find a lot of stuff that has gratuitous violence to be more obscene than any T&A that I've seen.

I hope that my view that this is not something that children are equipped to decide on their own is not a reflection of my personal biases.
 

Deuce

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Children are impressionable. They are wired at birth to be impressionable. That is how they are able to assimilate information and learn. This literal open mindedness is an important part of our genetic makeup. If you give a gun to a child and have some father figure tell them that they are supposed to kill someone, they will do it without any sense of regret.

Some people never are able to grow up and learn to differentiate between reality and fiction. However, we arbitrarily decide that 18 is going to be the magic age of majority (although you still presumed not to be able to handle alcohol -- go figure).

I don't see that kids will be harmed by being prevented from buying violent games, especially one that reward gratuitous violence. It isn't really a violation of their rights because they don't have the same rights as adults -- never have had them, probably never will have them. The rights of children are defined by what harms them not by what they want to do.

It is already accepted that it is OK to prevent kids from going to an R-rated movie without their parents or to an X-rated movie at all. It is OK to prevent them from buying pornographic material. They will not be harmed by not being able to buy it.

I personally find a lot of stuff that has gratuitous violence to be more obscene than any T&A that I've seen.

I hope that my view that this is not something that children are equipped to decide on their own is not a reflection of my personal biases.
I've played games of gratuitous violence since a very young age. I have killed precisely zero people and committed precisely zero felonies.

And "it doesn't harm them not to buy it" is not a reason to ban something. Otherwise, why not ban everything that might be remotely harmful? It doesn't hurt adults to not be able to buy alcohol or cigarettes, let's ban them! It doesn't hurt kids to not be able to buy candy, let's ban selling candy to kids! It doesn't hurt people to not be able to buy guns, let's ban all guns!
 
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Lord Tammerlain

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I just don't think that this really plays out the way you're describing it. Most kids play video games on the same TV they would watch a movie on. If the parents are going to catch them doing one, they can catch them doing the other. Moreover, if the game in question is a video game, the kid will probably be playing it on the computer, which is equally easy to keep from the parents.
Please note regarding movies I was talking about theaters not DVD's.

As for games I believe most kids play games on consoles (xbox360, PS3, Wii). Computer gaming is generally I believe done more by adults as top quality computer systems for games are rather more expensive then the consoles.

Also a good parent should periodically check out the computers their kids are using for such things along with other potential issues
 
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Mason66

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Given the costs of video games compared to movies it is unlikely a child will be able to buy video games on their own without the support of their parents. Also most parents will see said video game in their house. Which will allow any parent who does not lile said video games to prevent their child from buying it or at least playing it if the child somehow bought it.

Unlike movies which are cheap enough that childern can go see on on their alllowance, and they can do so without thier parents knowing what movie they went to see.

Overall a parent who shows even a little amount of parenting can prevent their child from playing "mature " games, it would require a fair bit more to control what movies the kid went to see.


Basically their is no need for a ban on the sale of mature video games. They already have ratings on them, any parent can see the rating and determine if they want their childern to play it or not
Kids get an allowance????:shock:
 

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Sure correlation is not causation etc. but Australia bans violent video games and controls them in a much tighter manner I believe. And their kids dont go to school and blow eachothers brains all over the place. America actually has a violence problem. How to address it?

/end ranty thing
 

Hoplite

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Unless you firmly believe that 8 year olds should be able to walk in and see/purchase anything they want from porn to gore-fetish videos, then you presumably think we should draw a line somewhere. These people think the same thing. Rather than acting like they're lunatics, why not explain why your preferred line is better than theirs?
Ok

The restrictions dont work. The ESRB system doesnt tell you anything about a game and most Mature rated games are bought FOR children BY their parents.

I dont agree with the restriction on mature moves for children because I dont see a reason to "protect" them from that kind of content. The same is true for games, I dont see any valid reason to attempt to keep Mature games out of kids' hands
 

Black Dog

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Just to be clear Dan, the law bans the sale or rental of M(mature) rated video games from children. It's not an overall ban. I am a video game fan, and I am split on this. I can see both sides of this.

Edit: OMG, I just agreed with a conservative...
Ah ha!

I don't think the government needs to get involved. Parents need to be more involved in the life of their children. This is just an excuse to again let the government babysit so mommy and daddy can go smoke more crack.
 
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