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Supreme Court sides with religious groups in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions in New York

CLAX1911 said:
I imagine the only thing you could get would be wreckless endangerment.
you seem to be cherry picking what the CDC publishes and what you believe.
there is no misinterpretation of the information. 94% of the deaths attributed to covid were people with on average 2.6 comorbidities. That means that people that actually died from covid alone not because they were extremely ill or in fragile health already, is around 15,000. That's a big number but it's not as fear-inducing as 260,000.
this fact doesn't correct anything I'm not saying they would have died at the time they did if they didn't have covid. what I'm saying is if you're not in fragile health you don't have anything to worry about.
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Since we’re having fun throwing around CDC stats here’s one for you: from January through October 2020 there were 299,000 excess deaths in the US. That is deaths above historically what we should have. The CDC pins 200,000 of those on Covid.
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again you're not countering my point. I'm not saying that 200,000 people didn't die of covid. My argument is 94% of them had on average 2.6 comorbidities.

I'm sorry these facts exist and what you are pointing out doesn't argue them.
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The original poster stated that Covid only killed 9,800 because all the rest had comorbidities. That’s stupid - plain and simple. It’s like claiming a guy who got shot died because he bled to death. The gun shot is the proximate as is Covid.

I’d wager a third of the adult population has at least one Covid comorbidities. 10+% of the population has diabetes, a third is obese, 7% has asthma etc. So saying that its only a real issue with comorbidities is kinda a waste because probably a third to half to half the population has comorbidities.

And excess deaths is not “cherry picking” data. In a situation like this where we have a one in a lifetime events deaths over and above what we expect is likely the best indicator of the actual cost of the event.
 
CanadaJohn said:
A true person of faith would never consider themselves as a judge of the faith practice of another person of faith - they would leave that judgement elsewhere. A true person of faith knows that relationship is between themselves and their savior.

I have no desire or interest in making such judgements - I simply stated that in my view the expression of opinion in the OP showed a lack of respect and understanding and was thus, in my opinion, ignorantly stated.
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Heh, the religious people here judge me all the time. I cant tell you the number of times that Elvira, Mash, Tosca, etc have told me I'm not a real Christian.

With that said, I will say that my judging of others was a sin and for that I will ask God for forgiveness. He will be the one that judges me...and also those with weak faith that need so many crutches to worship Him.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Some people conveniently don't understand the difference between died WITH COVID and died OF COVID. Often times that misunderstanding is conditioned upon their agenda.

Early in the pandemic, many deaths were attributed to COVID because testing was not widespread and post mortem testing was not conducted. It was presumed, likely accurately but undetermined definitively, that COVID was a contributing factor but never determined that COVID was the cause of death.
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What is the difference? Please be specific, providing a medical distinction.

And as for 'early on,' that hasnt been for about 7 months. The exponential growth and death rate since then are people dying of the Trump virus.
 
Gaius46 said:
I’d wager a third of the adult population has at least one Covid comorbidities. 10+% of the population has diabetes, a third is obese, 7% has asthma etc. So saying that its only a real issue with comorbidities is kinda a waste because probably a third to half to half the population has comorbidities.

And excess deaths is not “cherry picking” data. In a situation like this where we have a one in a lifetime events deaths over and above what we expect is likely the best indicator of the actual cost of the event.
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No no, you're wrong! He's found the solution!!!! /sarcasm

All we have to do is make all the elderly people young again and cure all the 'comorbidities' that other people have and the Trump virus will be nearly harmless! All the dead elderly and at-risk children and adults...magically no longer in danger! So we dont have to worry anymore! THere will be no more deaths because we'll just FIX old age and other immune vulnerabilities!!!!!!!​

How stupid can some people be? The masks we wear, the social distancing we do, etc...are all to protect those people THE MOST. Apparently a lot of people dont give crap about those people, seems they value them very little.
 
Lursa said:
I am a lifelong practicing Christian (Protestant) who had Sunday-school teacher parents.

If a person's faith is so weak that they cant worship and share and learn and experience the Lord online or in their cars or even home as a family for a few months...they are poor examples of their faith. And selfish ignorant ones at that.

What kind of guidance and ritual and trappings are people so dependent on that they cant practice their religion without them "in person" for awhile?
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And yet you overlook Paul's admonishment to not forsake the gathering of those in the faith.
 
Bassman said:
IOW, stay prisoners in your own homes for months, or years on end just like the Communist DemocraPs want.
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You should probably learn what words mean before you try to use them.
 
Bassman said:
And yet you overlook Paul's admonishment to not forsake the gathering of those in the faith.
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Nobody's stopping them from gathering...online. No one is being stopped from sharing or worshipping. And it's only temporary...to save lives. What do you think the Lord would prefer? People crowding in person to praise Him....or worship from home to protect their brothers and sisters?
 
Lursa said:
Nobody's stopping them from gathering...online. No one is being stopped from sharing or worshipping. And it's only temporary...to save lives. What do you think the Lord would prefer? People crowding in person to praise Him....or worship from home to protect their brothers and sisters?
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Nope. Permanent. This is how the Left want to destroy Christians.
 
Roberts can just sit in the corner now and pound sand
 
beancounter said:
So, while everyone was busy with Trump's lame attempted coup, the SCOTUS ruled that NY can't limit attendance at religious services.

Limiting attendance does not impose on religious freedom. Perhaps these 19th century holdouts have never head of radio, TV, newspapers, email, pamphlets, and even the Internets, Youtube, Zoom, etc, etc.

Now, I admit that not keeping people inside and building and subjecting them to peer pressure makes it more difficult to extract donations from them, but that is NOT a freedom of speech or religion issue.

So, now SCOTUS will be responsible for millions of more deaths.

Yay religion.... Many Conservatives are truly idiots with this mindless devotion to an invisible sky daddy, and their ideals which solely revolve around making money for the wealthiest among us, cynically wrapped in blind Patriotism. (e.g. Prosperity theology )


www.cnn.com

In a 5-4 ruling, Supreme Court sides with religious groups in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions in New York

In a 5-4 ruling, the US Supreme Court sided with religious organizations in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions put in place by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo limiting the number of people attending religious services.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

"In a 5-4 ruling, the US Supreme Court sided with religious organizations in a dispute over Covid-19 restrictions put in place by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo limiting the number of people attending religious services."
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5-4? Not exactly a walkover victory. If people want to waste their time mumbling into thin air they don't need a church to do it in. According to them their 'god' is everywhere so let them pray at home like they did saying their bedtime prayers as children.
 
snakestretcher said:
5-4? Not exactly a walkover victory. If people want to waste their time mumbling into thin air they don't need a church to do it in. According to them their 'god' is everywhere so let them pray at home like they did saying their bedtime prayers as children.
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Certainly, people can pray anywhere, but they can't gather around the table of the Lord to receive Communion, and this is the heart of worship for millions upon millions. Going to church | The Church of England
 
nota bene said:
Certainly, people can pray anywhere, but they can't gather around the table of the Lord to receive Communion, and this is the heart of worship for millions upon millions. Going to church | The Church of England
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My heart bleeds. What's the rush? Let them wait until it's safe to gather around this 'table'; their 'god' is eternal so won't be going away anytime soon.
 
snakestretcher said:
My heart bleeds. What's the rush? Let them wait until it's safe to gather around this 'table'; their 'god' is eternal so won't be going away anytime soon.
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Oh, you're definitely no bleeding heart. And it's not a question of God "going away"; it's a question of sharing supper with Him, LOL.
 
The real significance of the SCOTUS decision was that unlike previous courts, they actually ACTED on the case. The courts finding literally should have been 9-0 in favor of the plaintiff because it IS an open and shut Constitutional finding. The reason Roberts voted AGAINST the plaintiff was NOT because the plaintiff case was not justified but rather because the defendant in the case...the State of New York, had already acquiesced. In the past, especially in case involving the encroachment of citizens gun rights, the defendants in cases had withdrawn laws that would have been found unconstitutional, rendering a verdict unnecessary. As a result, many cases were dismissed and the opportunity to assert precedence was avoided, meaning governments were free to continue to pass unconstitutional laws that would have required the same time and legal challenges. This court acted, now establishing precedence that other courts will have to follow regarding the infringement on rights.

Cuomo is upset that they actually took on the case.
 
Gaius46 said:
The case is still being argued in a lower court. The SC just said the ban couldn’t be enforced while the lower court case is in progress.

In practice the state moved away from the restrictions in any case so the actual effect of the ruling is unclear.

The court reasoned that the order didn’t appear to be neutral with respect to religion. If so the state can probably rewrite the order in a way that is neutral.
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The point of the order was to make the statement: the religionists are in charge, now. That's it. Trump or No Trump, Religious Authoritarianism Is Here to Stay (NYT, Opinion, Subscription) There was no need for the order - it's a preliminary matter, it's a moot argument. They are just signaling their agenda. Get used to it.
 
snakestretcher said:
My heart bleeds. What's the rush? Let them wait until it's safe to gather around this 'table'; their 'god' is eternal so won't be going away anytime soon.
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Does your heart similarly bleed for restaurants and other commercial estanlishments?
 
Josie said:
Maskless? Every church I know if that's in session has a mask-wearing congregation.

Shouting? Do priests and rabbis shout?
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Fundamental christians are mostly all conservative and mix god with religion. Almost every other religious person is moderate in comparison.
 
I'm of the opinion that that case is just a taste of what is to come from this SC. I'm hoping that won't be the case but I won't hold my breath.
 
CanadaJohn said:
You show by the ignorance of your post that you lack any understanding or appreciation of those who practice and deeply hold religious faith. And you compound your ignorance by assuming that only Conservatives are religious to such an extent.

I haven't been a follower of institutional religion for a very long time, but I do have respect for those who do.
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I am Christian. It's very UNChristian to pack the churches in a pandemic. You do not need to go to church in times like this - you can watch online services. Funny how the churches up here aren't whining about it. The Catholic church in my town set up donation boxes for people to drop theirs off in order to maintain the church and the main church in another town. The Cathedral in the city had online services even before the lockdown this past spring.
 
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