"Supreme Court says we get a free ticket to discriminate "

[Lisa]

Actually, there was a standing army at the time the Second Amendment was written. Congress reinstated the Continental Army as the United States Army in September 1789. Two years before the Second Amendment was ratified. The militia exists with or without government. Without government, it is an unorganized militia. With government, it becomes a "well-regulated" militia.

Hitler was a socialist fascist, in the same vein as Mussolini, FDR, and Truman.

Some guy named James Madison, You might have heard of him, opposed the idea a standing army.

Answer

In June of 1787, James Madison addressed the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on the dangers of a permanent army. “A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty,” he argued. “The means of defense against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.” That Madison, one of the most vocal proponents of a strong centralized government—an author of the Federalist papers and the architect of the Constitution—could evince such strongly negative feelings against a standing army highlights the substantial differences in thinking about national security in America between the 18th century and the 21st.

The majority of the army was disbanded after the revolution and only a small core remained.

Most of the Continental Army was disbanded in 1783 after the Treaty of Paris formally ended the war. The 1st and 2nd Regiments went on to form the nucleus of the Legion of the United States in 1792 under General Anthony Wayne. This became the foundation of the United States Army in 1796.

You cannot be both a socialist and a fascist because fascism is capitalist. Mussolini was also a fascist.

FDR and Truman were centerist liberals. Bernie ais not as far left as either of them.

 

[Glitch]

Some guy named James Madison, You might have heard of him, opposed the idea a standing army.

Yet James Madison voted to reinstate the United State Army in September 1789.

The majority of the army was disbanded after the revolution and only a small core remained.

Which was reinstated in 1789. The United State Army has existed since the year the US Constitution was ratified. Get a clue.

You cannot be both a socialist and a fascist because fascism is capitalist. Mussolini was also a fascist.

Of course you can be a socialist and a fascist. All fascists are by definition socialists. Mussolini was a devote socialist and the FOUNDER of the fascism.

FDR and Truman were centerist liberals. Bernie ais not as far left as either of them.

Both FDR and Truman were fascist socialists, violating the rights of Americans and attempting to nationalize industries. Mussolini even wrote FDR a letter after his fascist New Deal programs passed Congress, congratulating FDR for his "fascist reforms." And he, of all people, would know. Unfortunately for the fascist FDR the Supreme Court would toss 11 of this 15 New Deal programs out as being unconstitutional. So FDR replaced the entire Supreme Court, whether they wanted to be replaced or not. That is fascism for you.

 

[CriticalThought]

Someone posted this on another forum: ""the Constitution and Supreme Court means we get a free ticket to discriminate against people we don't like (see: Masterpiece Cake shop case).

Do conservative Christians really believe that the phrase "nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof " in the First Amendment of the Constitution and the Supreme Court's decision in the Masterpiece Cake case both mean they have the right to discriminate against gays and other "people we don't like"?

The 1st and 14th amendment do that, hence why a Neo Nazi can't force the NAACP to accept them as a member.

 

[Lisa]

The 1st and 14th amendment do that, hence why a Neo-Nazi can't force the NAACP to accept them as a member.

A for-profit business that is open to the public is different than a club or organization. A person has no right to a religious sacrament or even to be a member of a church. An LGBT couple cannot force any church to marry them. A heterosexual couple also cannot force a church to to marry them unless they are willing to abide by the faith and the laws of that religion.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

This is the problem with the Liberal mind. They simply can't understand complex reading assignments. If the Liberal would take the time to read the Constitution, especially the first 10 BILL OF RIGHTS, the Liberals would understand that these rights limit the Government, not the people. Others are written for the same purposes. These are our protections against the government interfering in our lives. Not the other way around. The 1st Amendment has nothing to with individuals towards other individuals. The Government shall not infringe upon our rights with respect to the free exercise of religion. So, any time a judge gets a case where a Muslim doesn't want to bake an un-leaven loaf of bread for a Jew, the judge should throw the case immediately out because the judge is a part of the government. As a white man, any black should have the right not to hire me. But, the government can't discriminate. The government shouldn't be able to write laws preventing me to own any gun I want to. Don't like it, change the Constitution by the Amendment process.

So you're saying that the "government" can't restrict the free exercise of religion because that's what the 1st amendment says. So if I have a religion that teaches that paying taxes to the government is an abomination in the eyes of GOD, I am thereby free to not pay taxes to the government. Good to know.

If I have a religion that teaches that engaging in business with people who are a different race is an abomination in the eyes of God, I am therefore free to ban blacks and hispanics from my place of business. And if all the business owners in a particular community happen to share the same religion, they are free to cut off minorities for full participation in the blessings of a free society in the name of GOD. This is what it means to live under your interpretation of the U.S. Constitution.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

So FDR replaced the entire Supreme Court, whether they wanted to be replaced or not.

No he didn't. You just made that up.

 

[Lisa]

Yet James Madison voted to reinstate the United States Army in September 1789.

Which was reinstated in 1789. The United States Army has existed since the year the US Constitution was ratified. Get a clue.

Of course, you can be a socialist and a fascist. All fascists are by definition socialists. Mussolini was a devote socialist and the FOUNDER of fascism.

Both FDR and Truman were fascist socialists, violating the rights of Americans and attempting to nationalize industries. Mussolini even wrote FDR a letter after his fascist New Deal programs passed Congress, congratulating FDR for his "fascist reforms." And he, of all people, would know. Unfortunately for the fascist FDR, the Supreme Court would toss 11 of these 15 New Deal programs out as being unconstitutional. So FDR replaced the entire Supreme Court, whether they wanted to be replaced or not. That is fascism for you.

Fascists are capitalist, which means that they cannot be socialists. Mussolini was not a socialist. That is another lie. He had been a socialist but was expelled.

Mussolini had been a leading member of the National Directorate of the Italian Socialist Party (PSI), but was expelled from the PSI for advocating military intervention in World War I,

You are a waste of time to have a discussion with because you make it up as you go to suit your claims.

 

[Glitch]

No he didn't. You just made that up.

Yes, he did. Between 1937 and 1943 FDR replaced all nine Supreme Court Justices. Clearly you are ignorant of American history.

 

[Glitch]

Fascists are capitalist, which means that they cannot be socialists. Mussolini was not a socialist. That is another lie. He had been a socialist but was expelled.

You are a waste of time to have a discussion with because you make it up as you go to suit your claims.

Mussolini wrote for Italian socialist paper Avante! and was a devote socialist his entire life, receiving praise from Lenin for his socialist fascism in Italy. All leftist scum are fascist freaks, including Truman, FDR, Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. Leftist fascists were responsible for more than 100 million deaths last century alone. Which is why the leftist fascist Democratic Party is, and continues to be, the greatest enemy the US has ever faced.

 

[Lisa]

Mussolini wrote for Italian socialist paper Avante! and was a devote socialist his entire life, receiving praise from Lenin for his socialist fascism in Italy. All leftist scum are fascist freaks, including Truman, FDR, Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. Leftist fascists were responsible for more than 100 million deaths last century alone. Which is why the leftist fascist Democratic Party is, and continues to be, the greatest enemy the US has ever faced.

You cannot possibly be a leftist and be fascist. Fascism is a conservative idea.

You can be authoritarian and be a leftist (Stalin), but you cannot be both leftist and be fascist. Please learn the difference before you reply to me.

 

[Lisa]

Yes, he did. Between 1937 and 1943 FDR replaced all nine Supreme Court Justices. Clearly you are ignorant of American history.

FDR did not replace the SCOTUS justices. He tried to add more judges but that idea was rejected.

But in the late 1930s, President Franklin D. Roosevelt wanted to put restrictions on the court when it came to age. Largely seen as a political ploy to change the court for favorable rulings on New Deal legislation, the Judicial Procedures Reform Bill of 1937, commonly referred to as the “court-packing plan,” was Roosevelt’s attempt to appoint up to six additional justices to the Supreme Court for every justice older than 70 years, 6 months, who had served 10 years or more.

Dr. David B. Woolner, senior fellow and resident historian of theRoosevelt Institute and author of The Last 100 Days: FDR at War and at Peace, says it’s important to note the timing of this bill, which took place during the Great Depression. “We were in the midst of the worst economic crisis in our history,” he says. “Roosevelt’s response to this economic crisis was to engage in a series of programs designed to manage a capitalist system in such a way as to make it work for the average American. And because he wasn’t particularly ideological, he was willing to try all kinds of things.”

 

[Glitch]

You cannot possibly be a leftist and be fascist. Fascism is a conservative idea.

Don't be stupid, of course you can. Mussolini was both a devote socialist leftist and the creator of fascism. Mussolini defined fascism as "all within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state." It doesn't get any more leftist than that.

You can be authoritarian and be a leftist (Stalin), but you cannot be both leftist and be fascist. Please learn the difference before you reply to me.

It is you who are ignorant of the term. Fascism was created by leftists and can only be employed by leftists. The right-wing can be dictators, but only the left-wing can be fascist. Learn the difference.

 

[Glitch]

FDR did not replace the SCOTUS justices. He tried to add more judges but that idea was rejected.

Once again you ignorance is showing. FDR made several attempts to replace the Supreme Court that continually threw out his fascist laws that blatantly violated the US Constitution. Including asking Congress to place a mandatory retirement age on justices. Congress rejected all of FDR's schemes to destroy the court, so he completely replaced every one of them. This is a list of Supreme Court Justices appointed by FDR, and the date they were sworn in as a Supreme Court justice:

1 Hugo Black - August 18, 1937
2 Stanley Forman Reed - January 27, 1938
3 Felix Frankfurter - January 20, 1939
4 William O. Douglas - April 15, 1939
5 Frank Murphy - January 18, 1940
6 James F. Byrnes - June 25, 1941
7 Harlan F. Stone - July 3, 1941
8 Robert H. Jackson - July 11, 1941
9 Wiley Blount Rutledge - February 11, 1943

Your leftist indoctrination that you call an "education" is clearly showing.

 

[Waddy]

The courts allow a certain degree of discrimination. A black social organization would not have to allow Neo-Nazi's membership. A Moslem church can hold "men only" services. A women's group can be restricted to women. A girl's soccer team doesn't have to allow boys to play. SO LONG AS THERE ARE VIABLE ALTERNATIVES. If you were the only wedding cake baker within a 100 miles, the SC might have rules differently. Like a gas station way out in the desert would have to serve all motorists. The key is "viable alternative".

 

[danielpalos]

my interpretatation of their ruling

businesses cannot discriminate as the law has been EXCEPT when the act or service is out of the regular daily business, and is considered a "special order"

ie....the baker can turn down making a special cake, but they can buy any cake in the display
ie....a florist can turn down a gay wedding, but must sell all flowers in shop

that is the way i read it, but i could well be wrong....

your take?

If polygamists cannot do it, why should allegedly religious bakers operating on a for the profit of lucre not morals in public accommodation.

Polygamy so every woman can marry a mostly nice guy for the general welfare!

 

[Marrybore]

Don't be stupid, of course you can. Mussolini was both a devote socialist leftist and the creator of fascism. Mussolini defined fascism as "all within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state." It doesn't get any more leftist than that.

It is you who are ignorant of the term. Fascism was created by leftists and can only be employed by leftists. The right-wing can be dictators, but only the left-wing can be fascist. Learn the difference.

A definition:

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before spreading to other European countries. Opposed to liberalism, Marxism, and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.

 

[cpwill]

You cannot possibly be a leftist and be fascist. Fascism is a conservative idea.

You can be authoritarian and be a leftist (Stalin), but you cannot be both leftist and be fascist. Please learn the difference before you reply to me.

Sure were a lot of Socialists in that "conservative" movement


"But National Socialism is Different" :lol:

 

[Felis Leo]

You cannot possibly be a leftist and be fascist. Fascism is a conservative idea.

You can be authoritarian and be a leftist (Stalin), but you cannot be both leftist and be fascist. Please learn the difference before you reply to me.

Isn't that a "No True Scotsman" fallacy? That is, a true socialist (however one chooses to define that) cannot be an avowed racist or a nationalist? Or that socialism is incompatible with nationalism or racism?

 

[Lisa]

Sure were a lot of Socialists in that "conservative" movement


"But National Socialism is Different" :lol:

National socialist is a euphemism for fascism. Hitler was not a leftist. A politician doesn't send his core supporters away to concentration camps

From its rise to power in 1933, the Nazi regime built a series of incarceration sites to imprison and eliminate real and perceived "enemies of the state." Most prisoners in the early concentration camps were political prisoners—German Communists, union members, Socialists, Social Democrats—as well as Roma (Gypsies), Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, and persons accused of "asocial" or socially deviant behavior. Many of these sites were called concentration camps. The term concentration camp refers to a camp in which people are detained or confined, usually under harsh conditions and without regard to legal norms of arrest and imprisonment that are acceptable in a constitutional democracy.

 

[cpwill]

National socialist is a euphemism for fascism.

Yup. That's why I referenced it.

Hitler was not a leftist. A politician doesn't send his core supporters away to concentration camps

:lol: that he sent other kinds of socialists to concentration camps in no way makes Hitler Not-A-Leftist. He shares that trait, after all, with Lenin, Stalin, and Mao .

 

[Lisa]

Isn't that a "No True Scotsman" fallacy? That is, a true socialist (however one chooses to define that) cannot be an avowed racist or a nationalist? Or that socialism is incompatible with nationalism or racism?

Hitler was as much of a socialist as Kim Jong Un is a Democrat.

Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK)

Was Erich Honecker, the leader of East Germany also a Democrat?

The German Democratic Republic (GDR) (German: Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR)), commonly called East Germany (German:

 

[cpwill]

Isn't that a "No True Scotsman" fallacy? That is, a true socialist (however one chooses to define that) cannot be an avowed racist or a nationalist? Or that socialism is incompatible with nationalism or racism?

Certainly in this country (as well as in Germany) Progressive Leftism was fairly strongly intertwined with racism and nationalism.

See: Wilson, Woodrow.

 

[cpwill]

Hitler was as much of a socialist as Kim Jong Un is a Democrat.

Nope. Hitler (and Mussolini, who deserves the credit for developing the actual ideology more than Hitler does) was actually a Socialist. That's why the National Socialist Party's pursued (among other things) fairly left wing economic policies


The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party

Some of these are real interesting:

...7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood....

...9. All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.

10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.

Therefore we demand:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race. ​

that ain't exactly capitalism

 

[Lisa]

Yup. That's why I referenced it.



:lol: that he sent other kinds of socialists to concentration camps in no way makes Hitler Not-A-Leftist. He shares that trait, after all, with Lenin, Stalin, and Mao .

Hitler did not support socialist economic policies. Nazi Germany was a great place to be for capitalists such as Krupp, Seimens, Audi, Steyr-Damlier, Heinkel, Thyssen, BASF, Bayer, and Messerschmitt.

Lenin, Stalin, Mao claimed to be communists but they were also brutal dictators.

 

[Felis Leo]

Hitler was as much of a socialist as Kim Jong Un is a Democrat.



Was Erich Honecker, the leader of East Germany also a Democrat?

That was not my point. My question was: is it your belief that socialism, i.e. the belief in the collective ownership of the means of production, is incompatible with racism or nationalism? That a people cannot believe in social economic control and social justice, but only for members of their racial group and within their nation's borders? Because I would argue that socialism and nationalism, if not outright racism, go hand in hand. People are far more inclined to cooperate and share with other members of their tribe, ethnic or national group who share a common language, history and culture than they are with people who they consider aliens and outsiders.

And this is not merely theoretical. Whether you are talking about Armenian Dashnaks, Arab Baathists, or the Chinese Kumonintang, there is nothing that stops socialists from being nationalists or racists (or both) and having that imbued in their ideology.