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Summer Melt Season Getting Longer On Antarctic Peninsula

flogger said:
Instead of hiding behind your strawman again why not just answer the questions put to you instead. Getting back on topic . Why do you feel what is happening on the Antarctic peninsula is more significant than what is happening on the continent as a whole ? Why did Antarctica break its all time observed sea ice coverage record just last year when we are supposed to still be warming ? Are you actually going to ever debate the thread you initiated or just go on waving a flag ? :roll:
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You've already admitted in this thread you are a conspiriacist so go play with your fellow conspiracists.
 
Catawba said:
You've already admitted in this thread you are a conspiriacist so go play with your fellow conspiracists.
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So this whole thread has just been about creating endless strawmen and waving a flag then ...... fair enough :bolt
 
flogger said:
I did .The final significant (and minute) satellite error recalibration was 2005 this was not a subjective modelling input . Your point is ?
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I don't think you did .... but never mind ....

you might find this interesting ....

The Antarctica cooling controversy relates to questions posed in popular media regarding whether or not current temperature trends in Antarctica cast doubt on global warming. Observations unambiguously show the Antarctic Peninsula to be warming. Trends elsewhere on the continent show both warming and cooling but are smaller and dependent on season and the timespan over which the trend is computed; but more recent results from Steig et al. show warming over the entire continent.[2][3] Climate models predict that temperature trends due to global warming will be much smaller in Antarctica than in the Arctic,[4] mainly because heat uptake by the Southern Ocean acts to moderate the radiative forcing by greenhouse gases. The depletion of stratospheric ozone also has had a cooling effect, since ozone acts as a greenhouse gas.

There is no similar controversy within the scientific community, as the small observed changes in Antarctica are consistent with the small changes predicted by climate models, and because the overall trend since comprehensive observations began is now known to be one of warming. At the South Pole, where some of the strongest cooling trends were observed between the 1950s and 1990s, the mean trend is flat. Novelist Michael Crichton asserted that the Antarctic data contradict global warming.[5] The few scientists who have commented on the supposed controversy state that there is no contradiction,[6] while the author of the paper whose work inspired Crichton's remarks has said that Crichton "misused" his results.[7]

In a more recent study released in 2009, historical weather station data was combined with satellite measurements to deduce past temperatures over large regions of the continent, and these temperatures indicate an overall warming trend. One of the paper's authors, Eric J. Steig of the University of Washington, stated "We now see warming is taking place on all seven of the earth’s continents in accord with what models predict as a response to greenhouse gases."[8] A follow-up study by O'Donnell and others that strongly criticized the Steig et al. work nevertheless found significant warming in West Antarctica. O'Donnell et al. also confirmed that Antarctica overall has been warming since the 1950s, but disagreed with Steig et al. about the strength of that warming. However, subsequent measurements of temperatures in a borehole at the center of the West Antarctic ice sheet, by Orsi and others,[9] found even larger positive trends than Steig et al.
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Antarctica cooling controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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flogger said:
So this whole thread has just been about creating endless strawmen and waving a flag then ...... fair enough :bolt
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Flogger.jpg
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Oh hey look, another weather=climate thread.
 
flogger said:
Prove it ?
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"You need 20-30 years of data to define a climate trend in global mean temperature."
More Grumbine Science: Results on deciding trends

"cli·mate
/ˈklaɪmɪt/ Show Spelled [klahy-mit] Show IPA
noun
1.
the composite or generally prevailing weather conditions of a region, as temperature, air pressure, humidity, precipitation, sunshine, cloudiness, and winds, throughout the year, averaged over a series of years.
2.
a region or area characterized by a given climate: to move to a warm climate.
3.
the prevailing attitudes, standards, or environmental conditions of a group, period, or place: a climate of political unrest."
Climate | Define Climate at Dictionary.com
 
Catawba said:
From your article - "many volcanoes have minimal exposure or have been extensively removed by multiple overriding ice sheets, particularly in the Antarctic Peninsula."
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Yes, antarctic volcanoes erupt under the ice.
 
jmotivator said:
Yes, antarctic volcanoes erupt under the ice.
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Yes, and as your article points out, "many volcanoes have minimal exposure or have been extensively removed by multiple overriding ice sheets, particularly in the Antarctic Peninsula."
 
Catawba said:
"You need 20-30 years of data to define a climate trend in global mean temperature."
More Grumbine Science: Results on deciding trends

"cli·mate
/ˈklaɪmɪt/ Show Spelled [klahy-mit] Show IPA
noun
1.
the composite or generally prevailing weather conditions of a region, as temperature, air pressure, humidity, precipitation, sunshine, cloudiness, and winds, throughout the year, averaged over a series of years.
2.
a region or area characterized by a given climate: to move to a warm climate.
3.
the prevailing attitudes, standards, or environmental conditions of a group, period, or place: a climate of political unrest."
Climate | Define Climate at Dictionary.com
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And this has what to do with the Antarctic peninsula exactly ?
 
flogger said:
Or it may not who knows so whats your point ? If you look at the entire Antarctic continent as a whole and not just one cherry picked location you can see that Sea Ice area as has actually been increasing since satellite monitoring of it began 34 years ago.

View attachment 67145299

Obviously because it doesnt fit the AGW agenda we arent being told to worry about this ? :roll:
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or maybe it does ....

Climate change is expanding Antarctica's sea ice, according to a scientific study in the journal Nature Geoscience.

The paradoxical phenomenon is thought to be caused by relatively cold plumes of fresh water derived from melting beneath the Antarctic ice shelves.

This melt water has a relatively low density, so it accumulates in the top layer of the ocean.

The cool surface waters then re-freeze more easily during Autumn and Winter.

This explains the observed peak in sea ice during these seasons, a team from the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute (KNMI) in De Bilt says in its peer-reviewed paper.

Climate scientists have been intrigued by observations that Antarctic sea ice shows a small but statistically significant expansion of about 1.9% per decade since 1985, while sea ice in the Arctic has been shrinking over past decades.

The researchers from the KNMI suggest the "negative feedback" effect outlined in their study is expected to continue into the future


The sea ice expanded during Southern Hemisphere autumn and winter in response to the development of a fresh, cool surface water layer, which floated on the denser, warmer salty sea water below.

This fresh water is ultimately derived from enhanced melting at the base of the Antarctic ice shelves.

"Sea ice around Antarctica is increasing despite the warming global climate," said the study's lead author Richard Bintanja, from the KNMI.

"This is caused by melting of the ice sheets from below," he told the Reuters news agency.

But there are other plausible explanations for Antarctic sea-ice expansion.

Paul Holland of the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) stuck to his findings last year that a shift in winds linked to climate change was blowing ice away from the coast, allowing exposed water in some areas to freeze and make yet more ice.

"The possibility remains that the real increase is the sum of wind-driven and melt water-driven effects, of course. That would be my best guess, with the melt water effect being the smaller of the two," he told the London Science Media Centre.

The study in Nature Geoscience also asserts that the cool melt water layer may limit the amount of water sucked from the oceans that falls as snow on Antarctica. Cold air can hold less moisture than warm air.
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BBC News - Melt may explain Antarctica's sea ice expansion
 
Catawba said:
Yes, and as your article points out, "many volcanoes have minimal exposure or have been extensively removed by multiple overriding ice sheets, particularly in the Antarctic Peninsula."
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It's clear that you don't know what you are reading.
 
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flogger said:
And this has what to do with the Antarctic peninsula exactly ?
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You asked for proof that a 60 year trend is not weather. Did you forget?
 
Catawba said:
You asked for proof that a 60 year trend is not weather. Did you forget?
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No I was asking that question respective to the topic at hand 'the Antarctic peninsula' remember ? . What I didnt forget is the fact that you have failed to answer a single question put to you on the topic of a thread you yourself initiated . Why is that ?
 
flogger said:
If we were to be taxed for every 'maybe' the environmentalists deem we should there would simply be no viable economic future possible for humanity .... period. They have a long track record of inventing 'maybes' we have had to pay for after all :(
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" maybe" it does contradicts the argument that increasing ice cover is somehow evidence that AGW is not happening.
 
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