• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Sullivan: Trump Signals the End of Democracy

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
152,232
Reaction score
52,182
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
We are not a true democracy for one very important reason. Trump. Well, in fairness, he is not that great. But, the reason we are a Republic is because our founders knew that people are stupid. And, you really cannot trust them to run a government. The Trump phenomena has proven that.

Socrates seemed pretty clear on one sobering point: that “tyranny is probably established out of no other regime than democracy.”
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
152,232
Reaction score
52,182
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
And, the GOP is doing all it can to put up it's Trump Firewall.

Trump delegates blocked from key posts in New Hampshire - POLITICO

Donald Trump won the New Hampshire primary handily nearly three months ago, but state GOP officials are pushing a plan to block all of Trump's delegates from serving on any of the key committees at the national convention in July.
Instead, the coveted convention slots would go entirely to delegates assigned to Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, John Kasich and Ted Cruz, even though Trump won 35 percent of the vote, more than double his closest competitor.

GOP is wise to know the people cannot be trusted. lol...that's going to piss off a lot of...uh, people. :)
 

Lovebug

Let go and let God
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
23,179
Reaction score
9,719
Location
south
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
We are not a true democracy for one very important reason. Trump. Well, in fairness, he is not that great. But, the reason we are a Republic is because our founders knew that people are stupid. And, you really cannot trust them to run a government. The Trump phenomena has proven that.

I thought voters have been proven that for a long time, more so in 2008.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
152,232
Reaction score
52,182
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
I thought voters have been proven that for a long time, more so in 2008.

obama-mic-drop.jpg
 

MrT

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
5,849
Reaction score
2,426
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I thought voters have been proven that for a long time, more so in 2008.

If only there were some objective standards by which we could gauge his success or failure...
 

OrphanSlug

A sinister place...
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
24,353
Reaction score
21,326
Location
Atlanta
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
We have been in a nebulous condition, somewhere between republic and democracy for a long time now. I doubt that ends anytime soon.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
152,232
Reaction score
52,182
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Great analysis right here. Sullivan has outdone himself.

Much of the newly energized left has come to see the white working class not as allies but primarily as bigots, misogynists, racists, and homophobes, thereby condemning those often at the near-bottom rung of the economy to the bottom rung of the culture as well. A struggling white man in the heartland is now told to “check his privilege” by students at Ivy League colleges. Even if you agree that the privilege exists, it’s hard not to empathize with the object of this disdain. These working-class communities, already alienated, hear — how can they not? — the glib and easy dismissals of “white straight men” as the ultimate source of all our woes.

...so they wait, and they steam, and they lash out. This was part of the emotional force of the tea party: not just the advancement of racial minorities, gays, and women but the simultaneous demonization of the white working-class world, its culture and way of life.
 

Threegoofs

COVID survivor
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
53,801
Reaction score
19,709
Location
The birthplace of Italian Beef
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
We are not a true democracy for one very important reason. Trump. Well, in fairness, he is not that great. But, the reason we are a Republic is because our founders knew that people are stupid. And, you really cannot trust them to run a government. The Trump phenomena has proven that.

Man, I miss Andrew Sullivan!

I read the Daily Dish religiously for ten years, and was one of his first subscribers.

The priceless line is the last one...
In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event. It’s long past time we started treating him as such.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
152,232
Reaction score
52,182
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Man, I miss Andrew Sullivan!

I read the Daily Dish religiously for ten years, and was one of his first subscribers.

The priceless line is the last one...
Yep. His blog was awesome. I'm glad he's writing for the public again. Even if it's just features.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
75,420
Reaction score
31,853
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Not sure that I understand the big deal. A trump election would be both democratic and supportive republic government. Trump is simply gaining more votes than all other candidates. that IS democracy. Trump, if elected, will have been elected by the representative votes of the electoral college. its also possible that if elected Trump will bring with him more seats in the House and Senate. At the end of the day, the scenario described is identical to.....

2008

So...did Obama kill democracy?

If Trump is elected he will be tempered by Congress. 90% of the **** he says he will do, he cant do, because he simply doesnt have the authority to do so. Same as Obama. When the democrats swept into the WH and both the Senate and the House of Representatives, their power was kept in check by a minority but active minority party. By 2012, people had enough of the bull**** and lies and inactivity of the House and Senate and ousted the democrat majority. This is all cyclical and it has happened numerous times. Every fear expressed in that article could be mirrored and applied to Clinton presidency.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
152,232
Reaction score
52,182
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Not sure that I understand the big deal. A trump election would be both democratic and supportive republic government. Trump is simply gaining more votes than all other candidates. that IS democracy. Trump, if elected, will have been elected by the representative votes of the electoral college. its also possible that if elected Trump will bring with him more seats in the House and Senate. At the end of the day, the scenario described is identical to.....

2008

So...did Obama kill democracy?

If Trump is elected he will be tempered by Congress. 90% of the **** he says he will do, he cant do, because he simply doesnt have the authority to do so. Same as Obama. When the democrats swept into the WH and both the Senate and the House of Representatives, their power was kept in check by a minority but active minority party. By 2012, people had enough of the bull**** and lies and inactivity of the House and Senate and ousted the democrat majority. This is all cyclical and it has happened numerous times. Every fear expressed in that article could be mirrored and applied to Clinton presidency.
The bold highlights my thoughts on it as well. Sullivan argues though that the threat of populist revolt may be enough to twist enough arms.

But, yeah. No way is there ever going to be a 50-foot high wall at the border or an ICE regiment deporting over 10 million Mexicans. Well, at least it is not very likely.
 
Top Bottom