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Study Shows City Living is Safer

Aderleth

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"But even with crime down, surely it's still safer to live in the quiet countryside than it is in the city? It turns out that's not true. According to a new study (PDF) published today in the Annals of Emergency Medicine, large cities in the United States are significantly safer than rural areas. The risk of injury death — which counts both violent crime and accidents — is more than 20% higher in the countryside than it is in large urban areas."

Turns out cities are safest places to live - CNN.com

I'm just as surprised as anyone else. Thoughts?
 

Jango

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You have to do some major Orwellian thinking to believe that living in cities is 'safer' than the countryside.

Whenever there are more people around, especially congested racially mixed areas, crime of all kinds will be exponentially higher than in the countryside where you can expect people to primarily mind their own business. That's not to say the country is absent of crime, but is markedly lower than any of the large U.S. cities.

Besides, when zombies come out to play, cities serve as deathtraps. People would flock to the countryside for isolation. Isolation (relatively) = safety.
 

YoungConserv

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I would wager a guess that a lot of the crime attributed to the country is really border crime and is just lumped in with country.
 

Fisher

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Living in the rural areas is safer until something goes wrong, then the opposite is true because it takes so long to put police, fire and rescue on the scene,
 

Ryan5

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A metro based news source doing a study that sheds cities in a positive light..



Who would have thought?
 

Aderleth

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A metro based news source doing a study that sheds cities in a positive light..



Who would have thought?

Well... apparently only you, because that's not where the study came from. The "metro based news source" is simply reporting on it.
 

Goshin

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Living in the rural areas is safer until something goes wrong, then the opposite is true because it takes so long to put police, fire and rescue on the scene,



That, pretty much.

Also, the "country" essentially means that the landcape and whatnot are not optimized for human requirements and safety.... ie, you go walking in the woods and come to a ravine, there's no sign warning you and no guard rail to keep idiots from walking out on thin air. Then getting an ambulance on-scene is tricky when your present location has no address and is described something like "In the woods behind the Poteat Farm, on the south side of the creek just above the pond, next to a Poplar grove."

But I'll take country living, just the same. There's more to life than 'safety'.
 

Aderleth

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Living in the rural areas is safer until something goes wrong, then the opposite is true because it takes so long to put police, fire and rescue on the scene,

The study and the article talk about the part in bold. They also talk about the part not in bold, and rural areas aren't safer in that context either, apparently. :shrug:

When you break out the specifics, this makes some sense. Sure you're more likely to be murdered in a dense urban environment, but you're much more likely to be killed in a car accident if you live somewhere where driving is a constant necessity; and car accidents kill a lot more people than murders do.

All in all, I would have expected the population density factor to even things out, but the data suggests otherwise.
 

Aderleth

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You have to do some major Orwellian thinking to believe that living in cities is 'safer' than the countryside.

Nope, you just have to look at the statistics and stop making assumptions.
 

ttwtt78640

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"But even with crime down, surely it's still safer to live in the quiet countryside than it is in the city? It turns out that's not true. According to a new study (PDF) published today in the Annals of Emergency Medicine, large cities in the United States are significantly safer than rural areas. The risk of injury death — which counts both violent crime and accidents — is more than 20% higher in the countryside than it is in large urban areas."

Turns out cities are safest places to live - CNN.com

I'm just as surprised as anyone else. Thoughts?

It makes sense because many city workers have office jobs, vehicle traffic generally travels at lower speeds, EMS response times/trips to a hospital are quicker and only small pockets of major US cities are lawless zones (tribal lands?) having elevated crime rates.
 

Aderleth

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It makes sense because many city workers have office jobs, vehicle traffic generally travels at lower speeds, EMS response times/trips to a hospital are quicker and only small pockets of major US cities are lawless zones (tribal lands?) having elevated crime rates.

Yup. The article talks about a lot of that. Apparently one of the biggest factors is the driving. Car accidents kill way the hell more people than (say) muggings or murders, and people have to drive quite a lot more in the country.
 

Aderleth

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That, pretty much.

Also, the "country" essentially means that the landcape and whatnot are not optimized for human requirements and safety.... ie, you go walking in the woods and come to a ravine, there's no sign warning you and no guard rail to keep idiots from walking out on thin air. Then getting an ambulance on-scene is tricky when your present location has no address and is described something like "In the woods behind the Poteat Farm, on the south side of the creek just above the pond, next to a Poplar grove."

But I'll take country living, just the same. There's more to life than 'safety'.

Well that's certainly true. Although I think it's a safe bet that you and I have very different priorities on this particular point. ;)
 

Fisher

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The study and the article talk about the part in bold. They also talk about the part not in bold, and rural areas aren't safer in that context either, apparently. :shrug:

When you break out the specifics, this makes some sense. Sure you're more likely to be murdered in a dense urban environment, but you're much more likely to be killed in a car accident if you live somewhere where driving is a constant necessity; and car accidents kill a lot more people than murders do.

All in all, I would have expected the population density factor to even things out, but the data suggests otherwise.

Not me. Here is a protypical conversation that happens in the rural areas around me:

X: Someone was trying to break into my house and I called 911 and it took an hour for the deputy to get there.
PoPo: Well we only have 3 people to cover the entire county at night
X: Well you need to hire more people
PoPo: Then you will need to raise taxes to give us more money
X: More taxes? Not No but Hell effing No. We don't need no more damn taxes. We pay too much already

Substitute whatever you want for "break in" and Po Po with whatever government agency is involved, and the conversation is always the same.

on the plus side, in the city where we pay more taxes, you can have whatever 911 provides in about half the national average response time.

As for the car accident thing, that does happen a lot. Always hearing stories of someone happening upon an accident, usually fatal, where they estimate the wreck was hours before the discovery. When the sun rises, the rooster crows and somebody finds a dead body in a wreck that happened at 2:30 a.m.
 

Aderleth

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Not me. Here is a protypical conversation that happens in the rural areas around me:

X: Someone was trying to break into my house and I called 911 and it took an hour for the deputy to get there.
PoPo: Well we only have 3 people to cover the entire county at night
X: Well you need to hire more people
PoPo: Then you will need to raise taxes to give us more money
X: More taxes? Not No but Hell effing No. We don't need no more damn taxes. We pay too much already

Substitute whatever you want for "break in" and Po Po with whatever government agency is involved, and the conversation is always the same.

on the plus side, in the city where we pay more taxes, you can have whatever 911 provides in about half the national average response time.

As for the car accident thing, that does happen a lot. Always hearing stories of someone happening upon an accident, usually fatal, where they estimate the wreck was hours before the discovery. When the sun rises, the rooster crows and somebody finds a dead body in a wreck that happened at 2:30 a.m.

I meant even out the frequency of accidents, not even out the utterly ****ty emergency response time. Totally agree with the rest of the above.
 

Republic Now!

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I can definitely see the point in the study. There are a lot of dangerous things in more rural areas, not to mention the increased driving.

Still, despite this, I find rural life more enjoyable. I'd like to see comparisons of mental health between the two. There's something therapeutic about the country and stressful about the city. Maybe that's just me though.
 

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Turns out cities are safest places to live - CNN.com

I'm just as surprised as anyone else. Thoughts?


I'm surprised, although I've always been irked by people who think that it's dangerous living in a city. For instance, I'm from Minneapolis, where .00008% of the population was victim to a gun homicide in 2012. And that number is skewed, because it suggests that a gang member selling crack has the same chance of being murdered as a state senator from the suburbs. The hysteria about violence is media fueled. Americans need to chill out and, if they want to protect their families with a gun, that's fine, but they should also stop driving like idiots, which is much, much more likely to kill them.

The bottom line: know where you are in a city, keep your head up, dress down, stay off your cell phone at night or in bad neighborhoods, and you will almost certainly end up like me - never, ever threatened in any way.
 

Fisher

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That, pretty much.

Also, the "country" essentially means that the landcape and whatnot are not optimized for human requirements and safety.... ie, you go walking in the woods and come to a ravine, there's no sign warning you and no guard rail to keep idiots from walking out on thin air. Then getting an ambulance on-scene is tricky when your present location has no address and is described something like "In the woods behind the Poteat Farm, on the south side of the creek just above the pond, next to a Poplar grove."

But I'll take country living, just the same. There's more to life than 'safety'.

The county boondocks where I live requires a 911 address for every piece of property but that does happen when there is a hunting or ATV accident. The city, however is too anal about the street address thing. One time I was at a gas station and I heard this horrible screaming and ran over and a woman had a laundromat had tripped over the curbing, fallen, and was pretty banged up and twisted up between two cars and the parking stop and thought her leg was broken, I called 911 and they wouldn't send somebody until I provided a street address even though this place was 3 freaking lots down from the fire station. None of the buildings had addresses on them so I finally just told her to tell the first responders at Station X to look out their damn window and hung up on her.
 

Aderleth

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I'm surprised, although I've always been irked by people who think that it's dangerous living in a city. For instance, I'm from Minneapolis, where .00008% of the population was victim to a gun homicide in 2012. And that number is skewed, because it suggests that a gang member selling crack has the same chance of being murdered as a state senator from the suburbs. The hysteria about violence is media fueled. Americans need to chill out and, if they want to protect their families with a gun, that's fine, but they should also stop driving like idiots, which is much, much more likely to kill them.

The bottom line: know where you are in a city, keep your head up, dress down, stay off your cell phone at night or in bad neighborhoods, and you will almost certainly end up like me - never, ever threatened in any way.

I completely agree. Incidentally, I grew up in the Twin Cities (I'm in San Francisco now). If I'm remembering correctly, you're generally in pretty good shape except for a couple of neighborhoods.
 

Goshin

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Not me. Here is a protypical conversation that happens in the rural areas around me:

X: Someone was trying to break into my house and I called 911 and it took an hour for the deputy to get there.
PoPo: Well we only have 3 people to cover the entire county at night
X: Well you need to hire more people
PoPo: Then you will need to raise taxes to give us more money
X: More taxes? Not No but Hell effing No. We don't need no more damn taxes. We pay too much already

Substitute whatever you want for "break in" and Po Po with whatever government agency is involved, and the conversation is always the same.

on the plus side, in the city where we pay more taxes, you can have whatever 911 provides in about half the national average response time.

As for the car accident thing, that does happen a lot. Always hearing stories of someone happening upon an accident, usually fatal, where they estimate the wreck was hours before the discovery. When the sun rises, the rooster crows and somebody finds a dead body in a wreck that happened at 2:30 a.m.


Does happen a lot.

However, people are also inclined to turn out and help at the drop of a hat too.

Intersection near where I live tends to produce lots of accidents for some reason. With several houses around, whenever there is a bad wreck there you'll have 5-10 neighbors turn out with flashlights to warn any oncoming cars, cell phones to call ambulance or family, blankets, medkits....
 

Aderleth

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Still, despite this, I find rural life more enjoyable. I'd like to see comparisons of mental health between the two. There's something therapeutic about the country and stressful about the city. Maybe that's just me though.

I imagine the mental health stats would shift things a bit. I think you're right that city life is more stressful, but it's also more exciting and provides many, many more social/cultural opportunities. It's a trade off that's worth it for some of us. Whenever I visit my mom (in her quiet suburban house) the nighttime silence freaks me out. I like the bustle of activity outside my window. That ain't for everyone.
 

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You have to do some major Orwellian thinking to believe that living in cities is 'safer' than the countryside.

Whenever there are more people around, especially congested racially mixed areas, crime of all kinds will be exponentially higher than in the countryside where you can expect people to primarily mind their own business. That's not to say the country is absent of crime, but is markedly lower than any of the large U.S. cities.

Besides, when zombies come out to play, cities serve as deathtraps. People would flock to the countryside for isolation. Isolation (relatively) = safety.

Ehh, I could see it. Emergency response is quicker by a mile. City living has some of the sharp edges sanded off by regulation and you get bitten by critters large and small less often. Isolation only equals safety until injury or illness.

This is coming from a fellow who would rather be miles away from the herd at all times. But it's a life you have to know how to manage. Couch surfing won't get you through.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Lets not forget all the power equipment

Chainsaws, riding lawnmowers, snow blowers, etc.
 

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"But even with crime down, surely it's still safer to live in the quiet countryside than it is in the city? It turns out that's not true. According to a new study (PDF) published today in the Annals of Emergency Medicine, large cities in the United States are significantly safer than rural areas. The risk of injury death — which counts both violent crime and accidents — is more than 20% higher in the countryside than it is in large urban areas."

Turns out cities are safest places to live - CNN.com

I'm just as surprised as anyone else. Thoughts?

They are basing it on death rates, not incident rates. Sure, when you live 30 min from the nearest hospital, you are more likely to die in an accident because it takes awhile for medical people to get there. On roads where the speed limit is 55-75 mph, you are much more likely to die in a wreck than having two cars hit at an intersection moving at 20-35 mph. One thing I have noticed living in the country, one car accidents seem to way outnumber multiple car ones. Country roads are also much more likely to be 2 lane, sharper curves and more drastic hills. Out where I live, where the city folk come out all summer to the lake, we often have problems with drunk/tired people heading home from the lake going to fast in curves, passing in no-passing zones (yes, even on curves, dumb asses). What we don't have is having to listen to the neighbors all the time and gangbangers regularly spraying the neighborhood with bullets.
 

Aderleth

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They are basing it on death rates, not incident rates. Sure, when you live 30 min from the nearest hospital, you are more likely to die in an accident because it takes awhile for medical people to get there. On roads where the speed limit is 55-75 mph, you are much more likely to die in a wreck than having two cars hit at an intersection moving at 20-35 mph. One thing I have noticed living in the country, one car accidents seem to way outnumber multiple car ones. Country roads are also much more likely to be 2 lane, sharper curves and more drastic hills. Out where I live, where the city folk come out all summer to the lake, we often have problems with drunk/tired people heading home from the lake going to fast in curves, passing in no-passing zones (yes, even on curves, dumb asses). What we don't have is having to listen to the neighbors all the time and gangbangers regularly spraying the neighborhood with bullets.


Actually, if you look at the study, you'll find that they analysed both risk of injury and frequency of death due to injury. Their conclusions were focused on the latter, but their information regarding the former is consistent with the CNN article.

Regarding the second part in bold, you'll find that gangbangers are relatively rare outside of specific bad areas. Personally I can't remember the last time I saw bangers outside of a courtroom. I'm much more in danger of being mildly annoyed by slow-walking elderly Chinese women. You might want to get into an urban area more often. You're missing out.
 

Aunt Spiker

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"But even with crime down, surely it's still safer to live in the quiet countryside than it is in the city? It turns out that's not true. According to a new study (PDF) published today in the Annals of Emergency Medicine, large cities in the United States are significantly safer than rural areas. The risk of injury death — which counts both violent crime and accidents — is more than 20% higher in the countryside than it is in large urban areas."

Turns out cities are safest places to live - CNN.com

I'm just as surprised as anyone else. Thoughts?

That just doesn't compute with anything I've experienced.

My town where I live, 40 miles north of Little Rock, only deal with occasional drug issues and minor theft (people taking stuff out of garages and carports, etc).
There's been one murder take place in my town since it was incorporated in the 1940's and that's been contested as a firearm accident rather than a murder, we'll see.
I've been in several auto accidents and all were within city limits when I lived there, etc.
My parents have been robbed - in the city.
The crime rate is highest - in the city.
etc etc.

That's actually why I don't live there :shrug:

So - in my life - the city is more dangerous purely because it's the most populated area.

As far as the 'country roads being more dangerous' - this wouldn't matter if you LIVED rural or LIVED city. They're just more dangerous no matter where you're from because of how they're designed (blind, curvy, inappropriate for the speed limit, tree lined, poorly lit, poorly policed, etc)
 
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