• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Study Says It's Plants, Not Humans, that are the Cause of Climate Change

“Concerns about global warming are about how human beings are altering the radiative balance,” says Reilly. “While some of the things we do change water vapor directly, they are insignificant. Increasing ghg's [greenhouse gases] through warming will increase water vapor and that is a big positive feedback [meaning: the more greenhouse gases, the more water vapor, the higher the temperature]. But the root cause are ghg's. So in talking about what is changing the climate, CHANGES IN WATER VAPOR ARE NOT A ROOT CAUSE.”


As such, Glitch’s post was basically a BIG LIE based on the purposeful OMISSION of relevant information.
Too bad he only told half the story. Water vapor, which has almost no change if radiative forcing because it is already in great abundance, creates more cloud cover. More cloud cover does in fact return more IR from the surface back to the surface, reducing the heat loss. Now it would in fact warm the surface if not for one little inconvenient fact he left out...

Increased cloud cover, decreases surface insolation.

Therefore, the same time we see a greater percentage of upward IR being returned, over a 24 hour period, the solar energy warming the surface is reduced.

Have you accounted for less sunshine to the surface?
 
I'm sorry that you didn't comprehend.

When the ice retreats, plants end up covetring the land rather than ice. Is that simplicity too much?
So when the earth warms from CO2 the snow retreats. Bare ground also absorbs heat more than snow and is another feedback that enhances AGW warming. Plants have nothing to do with warming.
 
Too bad he only told half the story. Water vapor, which has almost no change if radiative forcing because it is already in great abundance, creates more cloud cover. More cloud cover does in fact return more IR from the surface back to the surface, reducing the heat loss. Now it would in fact warm the surface if not for one little inconvenient fact he left out...

Increased cloud cover, decreases surface insolation.

Therefore, the same time we see a greater percentage of upward IR being returned, over a 24 hour period, the solar energy warming the surface is reduced.

Have you accounted for less sunshine to the surface?
So you admit that water vapor is not the cause of current warming. I think that was his point. It is non-condensable gases that are upsetting the earth's energy balance. Water vapor is a feedback that may work both ways but it is obviously not enough to compensate for increased greenhouse gases or our temperatures would not be increasing so rapidly.
 
Last edited:
So you admit that water vapor is not the cause of current warming. I think that was his point. It is non-condensable gases that are upsetting the earth's energy balance. Water vapor is a feedback that may work both ways but it is obviously not enough to compensate for increased greenhouse gases or our temperatures would not be increasing so rapidly.
Then why do we see so little increases from around a 40% increase in CO2? We don't even know CO2 is the cause, as it does have secondary cooling effects that come with it. Meanwhile, the solar/ocean/atmospheric coupling takes several decades to see the effects of solar changes. We are likely still warming from coming out of the maunder Minima.
 
Then why do we see so little increases from around a 40% increase in CO2? We don't even know CO2 is the cause, as it does have secondary cooling effects that come with it. Meanwhile, the solar/ocean/atmospheric coupling takes several decades to see the effects of solar changes. We are likely still warming from coming out of the maunder Minima.
We know how strong the sun is (we measure it!) and it is not the cause of warming. Stop grasping at straws. It is demeaning. What you call "little" is huge on a planetary scale. The ice age came from a 6 degree drop in world temperature.

Tracking Temperature
Tierney is lead author of a paper published today in Nature that found that the average global temperature of the ice age was 6 degrees Celsius (11 F) cooler than today. For context, the average global temperature of the 20th century was 14 C (57 F).

"In your own personal experience that might not sound like a big difference, but, in fact, it's a huge change," Tierney said.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...:text=Summary:,to about 46 degrees Fahrenheit.
 
We know how strong the sun is (we measure it!) and it is not the cause of warming. Stop grasping at straws. It is demeaning.
If you say so.

You are the one that needs science explained.
 
Then why do we see so little increases from around a 40% increase in CO2? We don't even know CO2 is the cause, as it does have secondary cooling effects that come with it. Meanwhile, the solar/ocean/atmospheric coupling takes several decades to see the effects of solar changes. We are likely still warming from coming out of the maunder Minima.

Do you have a link that supports your last sentence?
 
Plants can't live in snow so warming had to melt it first.
Perhaps you can tell us, with your extensive knowledge on the matter, how coniferous trees and plants manage to survive the Winters if, as you claim, "plants can't live in snow."
FLowers1.jpg
Flowers2.jpg
Flowers3.jpg

The lack of knowledge you demonstrate with each post is truly astonishing.
 
Perhaps you can tell us, with your extensive knowledge on the matter, how coniferous trees and plants manage to survive the Winters if, as you claim, "plants can't live in snow."
View attachment 67387375
View attachment 67387376
View attachment 67387377

The lack of knowledge you demonstrate with each post is truly astonishing.
I stick by my statement. The snow is melting away in those pics. Spring is coming. Do you know what seasons are? Plants cannot grow in snow.
 
Back
Top Bottom