Hicup
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2009
- Messages
- 9,081
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- Location
- Rochester, NY
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- Male
- Political Leaning
- Very Conservative
Correlation, not causation. This supports nothing.
Didn't say that people could not have it. What I said is that you made an assumption based on YOUR bias without any evidence or information that substantiated it. And that's what made it irrelevant, as I said. It really is just that simple.
Ah, I see, so people can't have internalized homophobia? It is what homophobia is, afterall. I know that NOW it means something else, but back when the term was coined it meant something quite different. Either way, I don't care that you don't care. It happens to be the truth, regardless of whether you think it is.
Tim-
Sadly, the kids who perpetrated this can only face a maximum of 5 years in prison. I sincerely hope that this weighs heavily on their hearts for the rest of their lives. What they did was absolutely horrible. Time and time again, the ignorant never realize the possible repercussions before they do something like this.
No but it is enough to direct research, wouldn't you agree?
Tim-
I don't care about the "gay" issue. That's not what concerns me at all. It's the invasion of privacy, not just the victim's but his lover as well, and the fact that they put it on the internet for the whole world to see. They had no right to do that. Whether he was ****ing a guy or a girl makes not the least bit of difference to me. I don't know if this is the reason he killed himself, it might be, who knows? They still had NO right to do what they did and they deserve the 5 years in jail that are hopefully coming to them. Anyone does this to my kid and you can be damn sure I'm throwing the book at them. Period.
Of course that is correct. I have a family member with 3 master degrees in psychotherapy, 2 in body language with over 30 years of private practice charging nearly 200 dollars an hour.
He had clients who had this very problem. Dallas is home to one of the largest homosexual populations in the country and one of the highest if not the highest problem areas of homosexuals who abuse drugs. The problems they faced do range but he has had homosexual clients suffering from an array of mental problems from self loathing to fear of confronting the parents or dealing with abuse in their lives. So yes it does occur.
What bias? I suggested a possible cause for this fellas suicide. I never said I was 100% sure, how would, or could I know?
Tim-
Depends. Since there is no causational connection between homosexuality and mental illness, it might be a good idea to study why there is a correlation. I believe that the second link of texmaster's gives us some insight into some of those causes, and these tend to be external influences.
These issues that you mention would not be considered internalized homophobia.
Tell us why you would have chosen THAT particular possibility.
Actually they would. Self loathing is a very common characteristic among homosexuals who are depressed.
Actually they would. Self loathing is a very common characteristic among homosexuals who are depressed.
No one said there was a causation. Only that there is data that simply, "being" homosexual, can lead to an increase in stress anxiety, depression, and various other forms of mental illness; not typical of the general population. Now, granted, external influences could be a problem for some, but the shere prevalance suggests something more at play. That's all the correlation indicates.
Tim-
Self Loathing for being a homosexual is often brought on in my opinion by society.
If everyone around you thinks your crazy for example, after awhile you're gonna believe it.
That is how you get self loathers. People who are unable to come to terms with who they are, because they believe whatever that is, is wrong. Because people made them feel that way.
How you get people like George Rekers.
Look, if the guy was out, and proud, he would not have knee jerked his way to a suicide. I assumed that, since the premise makes sense, he must have been closeted, and the shame of getting exposed could have pushed him over the edge. This is suggestive of internalized homophobia. At the time the information was current, there was no indication that he was an out gay man.
Tim-
The self-loathing issue might but the others would not in any way.
Being depressed because of being abused, or being anxious because of fear around confessing to one's parents are not consistent with internalized homophobia. And depression may be common with homosexuals who self loath, but the reverse is not true. Gay are depressed for a variety of reasons, and just like heterosexuals, it may have nothing to do with their sexuality.
Its not always that clear cut. And I'm not saying all homosexuals experience this but abuse in the home, peer pressure or ones own feelings often lead to self loathing just as it does in non homosexuals.
When one speaks about human nature. Nothing is clear cut. It is after all an opinion and a theory.
A fair point.
Good day to you sir!
Actually its quite true especially in cases of abuse. The self loathing is not very different from what many rape or other abuse victims encounter when examining their own feelings about the experience.
In bold. That's where you try to present your opinion as fact. In no way does the prevelence suggest anything of the kind. "Being" homosexual doesn't cause this. But I'd be happy to see any substantiation for this opinion of yours. Go to it.
Actually, it is NOT suggestive of internalized homophobia. I don't even think you know what this term means. What this IS suggestive of is one's anxiety about the reactions of others. This is pretty clear. YOUR extrapoliation takes a leap that has no connection to what we knew at the time.
Not necessarily. Abuse victims DO feel self-BLAME at times, but self-loathing is far stronger terminology that is synonomous with self-hatred. Verbalizing this is far different than actually feeling and being it. One can say "I hate myself", but behaviors that exhibit these feelings are not always present. It's kinda like saying, "I hate my father" when you are actually just angry at him. Extremeness in terminology is usually misrepresentative. Self-blame? Yeah. Self-loathing? Nah, not very often.
Do you accept that homosexuals commit suicide 6 times more than the general population?
Do you accept that by the law of statistical averages alone, one cannot attribute all homosexual suicide to external pressures? So, one of three questions needs to be addressed. Either, gay people kill themselves more becasue they are teased more, or maybe it has nothing at all to do with being homosexual, and they are as depressed as everyone else, and commit suicide for the same reasons as everyone else in the general population does? Or, they commit suicide because they cannot feel comfortable in their own skin, something feels wrong to them?
So the question to a potential research study would be. How many do what, because of which reason? Is it all external, is it all simply a matter of being human, or is it all a matter of internal reconcilliation? Maybe it's a combination of all three? Either way, something is causing them to suffer more than the general population in terms of suicide deaths.
Tim-
What behaviors exhibit hating oneself?
Tim-
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