• Please keep all posts on the Rittenhouse verdict here: Rittenhouse Verdict. Note the moderator warnings in the thread. The thread will be heavily moderated with a zero tolerance policy for any baiting, flaming, trolling or other rule breaks. Stick to the topic and not the other posters. Thank you.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

story on israeli withdrawal

TechDad

New member
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle East
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
GySgt said:
The majority of Muslims live in Indonesia and India. Must I say this on ever damn post? The majority of not peaceful but passive Muslims in the Middle East should take control of their hijacked religion and protest. Wearing a sign isn't necessary.

Indonesia is the largest muslim country by population but the majority of world muslims don't live in Indonesia and India. Simply not true. Also, extremism is a problem in Indonesia no different from other muslim countries.

Moderate muslims are, in fact, horrified at those who commit attrocities in the name of a peacful religion. A strange reality is that people who are painting Islam with a broad (and very nasty) brush are more responsible for hijacking Islam than moderates muslims at fault for not protesting vigourously enough for Christian interests.
 

Deegan

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
5,528
Reaction score
2
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
TechDad said:
Indonesia is the largest muslim country by population but the majority of world muslims don't live in Indonesia and India. Simply not true. Also, extremism is a problem in Indonesia no different from other muslim countries.

Moderate muslims are, in fact, horrified at those who commit attrocities in the name of a peacful religion. A strange reality is that people who are painting Islam with a broad (and very nasty) brush are more responsible for hijacking Islam than moderates muslims at fault for not protesting vigourously enough for Christian interests.


I am a little suspicious of your post, as you are residing in S.A, are you a Muslim?:confused:
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,627
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
TechDad said:
Indonesia is the largest muslim country by population but the majority of world muslims don't live in Indonesia and India. Simply not true. Also, extremism is a problem in Indonesia no different from other muslim countries.

Moderate muslims are, in fact, horrified at those who commit attrocities in the name of a peacful religion. A strange reality is that people who are painting Islam with a broad (and very nasty) brush are more responsible for hijacking Islam than moderates muslims at fault for not protesting vigourously enough for Christian interests.


I'm tired of arguing symantics with every new person that jumps in the forum. This is what I meant.

Countries with Muslim Populations of 10% or more...

Country # in millions
Indonesia 182.2 m
Pakistan 136.9 m
Bangladesh 115.0 m
India 108.6 m
Iran 63.9 m
Turkey 61.0 m
Egypt 51.6 m
Nigeria 40.2 m
Algeria 29.1 m
China * 29.1 m
Morocco 29.1 m
Iraq 21.4 m
Sudan 20.4 m
Ethiopia 18.3 m
Afghanistan 18.0 m
Yemen 16.1 m
Saudi Arabia 16.0 m
Uzbekistan 15.9 m
Malaysia 10.5 m
Mali 9.4 m
Tunisia 9.0 m
Somalia 8.5 m
Senegal 7.7 m
Niger 7.5 m
Kazakhstan 6.9 m
Guinea 6.5 m
Azerbaijan 6.1 m
Cote d'Ivoire 5.9 m
Libya 5.2 m
Tajikstan 5.2 m
Burkina Faso 5.0 m
Jordan 3.6 m
Syria 3.5 m
Cameroon 3.1 m
Turkmenistan 3.1 m
Chad 2.9 m
Ghana 2.8 m
Kyrgyzstan 2.8 m
Israel (Palestine) 2.4 m
Mauritania 2.3 m
Mozambique 2.3 m
Sierra Leone 2.0 m
Bosnia 1.8 m
Serbia 1.8 m
United Arab Emirates 1.8 m
Lebanon 1.7 m
Oman 1.7 m
Malawi 1.5 m
Tanzania 1.5 m
Albania 1.4 m
Bulgaria 1.3 m
Brunei 1.2 m
Kuwait 1.2 m
Benin 0.95 m
Gambia 0.94 m
Togo 0.85 m
Macedonia 0.59 m
Bahrain 0.51 m
Comoros 0.51 m
Guinea Bissau 0.49 m
Qatar 0.47 m
Djibouti 0.45 m
Singapore 0.44 m
Liberia 0.40 m
Maldives 0.25 m
Mauritius 0.19 m
Sahara 0.13 m
Suriname 0.10 m
Cyprus 0.04 m
Gibraltar 0.003 m



Moderate Mulsims have thus far, not lifted a finger against their zealots and "martyrs." The people that are painting a nasty picture of Islam are Muslims. They are struggling for an Islamic identity and so far the moderates have done nothing to condemn the actions of their brothers in the Middle East. In fact, there are millions and millions that cheer them on. Christian interests have nothing to do with it. This is an Islam war that has spread in all directions and originally started out in the House of Saud. And yes, I'm aware that there is religious violence where ever you can find Muslims...to include Indonesia, but this is a Middle Eastern Islamic problem. Not a worldwide Muslim problem.
 
Last edited:

TechDad

New member
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle East
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
GySgt said:
I'm tired of arguing symantics with every new person that jumps in the forum. This is what I meant.

Countries with Muslim Populations of 10% or more...


I see, you meant that India and Indonesia have a lot of muslims even though you said that they had the majority. Just sematics.

I disagree that there have been no efforts in the middle east among moderate muslims to project the postive side of their religion. And, at any rate, there is no onus on them to convince the US not shoot, imprison, or deport them simply because another person who is a muslim is violently opposed the the US. I heard the quote on the TV show west wing "radical islam is to islam as the KKK is to christianity." How responsible do you feel for a hate ridden neo-nazi spouting kill 'em all rhetoric.

You seem to say that the house of Saud is behind the middle east islamic consipiracy, do you have evidence of this? My feeling has always been that the US is behind the house of Saud. Does this make the US behind the islamic conspiracy?
 

TechDad

New member
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle East
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Deegan said:
I am a little suspicious of your post, as you are residing in S.A, are you a Muslim?:confused:


Does it matter? I can see how my post might seem biased if I were a muslim but no more so than a muslim would see a debate among christians regarding islam.

At any rate, since you are curious. I work in a US curriculum school system that is set up to provide a US education to expatriates in Saudi Arabia. My family comes from Wisconsin and before that Sweden (with a little German heritage). I'm a Lutheran, though not a terribly active one.

Out of curiousity, does this make my posts on this topic more or less relevant?
 

Deegan

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
5,528
Reaction score
2
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
TechDad said:
Does it matter? I can see how my post might seem biased if I were a muslim but no more so than a muslim would see a debate among christians regarding islam.

At any rate, since you are curious. I work in a US curriculum school system that is set up to provide a US education to expatriates in Saudi Arabia. My family comes from Wisconsin and before that Sweden (with a little German heritage). I'm a Lutheran, though not a terribly active one.

Out of curiousity, does this make my posts on this topic more or less relevant?

I thought it was very relevant, as I have really grown suspicious of anyone in S.A, after 9/11 of course. I also know that they teach this hatred of the west in their schools, so it only makes sense to be very suspicious, and very distrustful of anyone raised in that fashion. I certainly don't believe all Muslims, or even a majority are pleased with the hijacking or their religion, but I also don't see enough of them coming forward to condemn this activity. I believe their voice would be the most effective in curtailing this ever growing problem, so I guess we disagree, you seem to believe they have done enough.

Is this your position?
 

robin

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
0
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
GySgt said:
Yeah I read your links and I have read many other links and books and such. Nothing new here. Like I have said R-E-P-E-A-T-E-D-L-Y, at the heart of every matter, lies the American interest.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, I could be one of those CIA spooks that does the undesired action for my country. I would not have a problem with it. You might be surprised to know that your country has similar agents that partake in what you condemn for your well being. In Somalia, we used to hand off certain prisoners to the Belgians to extract information about gun runners into the towns and cities. They were not restricted to the "Laws of War" that American troops are supposed to adhere to. It's not a pretty world and it takes dispicable acts to secure a greater security.
GYsgt assuming that is not a wind up & you really have been involved in such evil, then you aren't worth the time of day & you represent everything that you despise. Deep down you must hate yourself & if you don't, you've lost your soul if there is such a thing.
 
Last edited:

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,627
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
robin said:
GYsgt assuming that is not a wind up & you really have been involved in such evil, then you aren't worth the time of day & you represent everything that you despise. Deep down you must hate yourself & if you don't, you've lost your soul if there is such a thing.


Dramatic as usual.
 

robin

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
0
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
GYsgt
You remind me of Himmler.
"If we don't kill the Jewish children then they eventually will kill us"
You also seem happy for people to be killed for the flimsiest & most implausable reasons of self interest.
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,627
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
TechDad said:
I see, you meant that India and Indonesia have a lot of muslims even though you said that they had the majority. Just sematics.

I disagree that there have been no efforts in the middle east among moderate muslims to project the postive side of their religion. And, at any rate, there is no onus on them to convince the US not shoot, imprison, or deport them simply because another person who is a muslim is violently opposed the the US. I heard the quote on the TV show west wing "radical islam is to islam as the KKK is to christianity." How responsible do you feel for a hate ridden neo-nazi spouting kill 'em all rhetoric.

You seem to say that the house of Saud is behind the middle east islamic consipiracy, do you have evidence of this? My feeling has always been that the US is behind the house of Saud. Does this make the US behind the islamic conspiracy?



The oil that flows to the world and feeds the world's economies, remains stable between Shi'ites and Sunni because of our Foreign Policy. Is it acceptable that every time the Sunni wish to slaughter some Shi'ites or vice versa, the world economies and oil resources should suffer? America gets a bad wrap from the people around the world, while their governments remain silent and welcome their undisturbed oil supply. Simply blaming American foreign policy as the typical scapegoat for the failing civilization in the Middle East is too simple. Terrorism is bred from the perversion of their religion. Dictators and the House of Saud use Clerics to oppress their people. From this oppression comes the hate that is directed on to us and Israel - After all, that's what their religious leaders tell them. They wouldn't lie, because they speak for "Allah". Until the people in the Middle East have more control over their lives and are not subjected, or at least as susceptible, to the hate speech of their rich leaders, terrorism is going to just grow.

Every perverted cleric, dictator, royal family, and oppressed citizen of the Middle East had something to do with 9/11 and every terrorist attack since 1949 against America. These attacks exist because we choose to stand between Muslim nations and the one Jewish nation in existence. These attacks have escalated over the years until 9/11 woke civilians up. It would appear that some are still asleep and not willing to look at the ugly truth of our enemy. As long as we stand behind Israel, they cannot do any thing about it and they don't like it. Their temper tantrums involve the murder of our people. Arresting up the few direct terrorists and leaving the sources to walk the streets is like applying a band-aid to a heart attack. Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Momar Khadafi, and other figureheads of Islamic leadership, is not the problem. The problem is Middle Eastern Islam itself. The "martyrs" of the Middle East have been digressing back to the days before their prophet Muhammad and have been resorting to human sacrifice in the name of Islam. They are becoming a cult. No Islamic people outside of the Middle East practice and glorify such behavior while millions and millions of people rejoice to such behavior.

The general truth is that Arabs do not target children, however, there is enough of them that do and enough of them that support the murderers throughout the Middle East that have followed in their teachings. Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. The House of Saud have used the Koran and it's clerics to keep their people in line as they horde all of the money made by selling their people's energy resource to the world. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing. They are to blame for much of the perversion of the Islamic faith in the Middle East. The Arab clerecs, especially, will remain guilty-in great part-for every murder committed by Muslim extremists from all over the region. They created the monsters who now dictate their version of Islam. In the Middle East, blaming others for every problem is the narcotic of choice.

You want proof? Open your eyes.
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,627
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
robin said:
GYsgt
You remind me of Himmler.
"If we don't kill the Jewish children then they eventually will kill us"
You also seem happy for people to be killed for the flimsiest & most implausable reasons of self interest.


Except "Jewish children" weren't attacking civilians in the name of "Elohim". These Islamists are hardly "victims." Don't explain away your weaknesses by attacking my integrity.

It's not a matter of being happy. It's a matter of accepting reality.
 

robin

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
0
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
GySgt said:
The oil that flows to the world and feeds the world's economies, remains stable between Shi'ites and Sunni because of our Foreign Policy. Is it acceptable that every time the Sunni wish to slaughter some Shi'ites or vice versa, the world economies and oil resources should suffer? America gets a bad wrap from the people around the world, while their governments remain silent and welcome their undisturbed oil supply. Simply blaming American foreign policy as the typical scapegoat for the failing civilization in the Middle East is too simple.

Every perverted cleric, dictator, royal family, and oppressed citizen of the Middle East had something to do with 9/11 and every terrorist attack since 1949 against America. These attacks exist because we choose to stand between Muslim nations and the one Jewish nation in existence. These attacks have escalated over the years until 9/11 woke civilians up.

The general truth is that Arabs do not target children, however, there is enough of them that do and enough of them that support the murderers throughout the Middle East that have followed in their teachings. Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. The House of Saud have used the Koran and it's clerics to keep their people in line as they horde all of the money made by selling their people's energy resource to the world. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing. They are to blame for much of the perversion of the Islamic faith in the Middle East.
You sound more & more like Bin Laden.
The Sunni & Shiites weren't slaughtering each other until you invaded Iraq & the USA supported Saddam in the Shiite v Sunni Iran Iraq war of the 80's.
US foreign policy therefore has done precisely the opposite of what you claim has been the intention.
Why are you so worried about murders anyway ?
You seem very much in favour of murderers, in your other posts.
You hate all Arabs like Hitler hated Jews. You are a stark raving mad hatefull biggoted looney, just like the extremists you despise so much.
 
Last edited:

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,627
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
robin said:
You sound more & more like Bin Laden.
The Sunni & Shiites weren't slaughtering each other until you invaded Iraq & the USA supported Saddam in the Shiite v Sunni Iran Iraq war of the 80's.
US foreign policy therefore has done precisely the opposite of what you claim has been the intention.
Why are you so worried about murders anyway ?
You seem very much in favour of murderers, in your other posts.
You hate all Arabs like Hitler hated Jews. You are a stark raving mad hatefull biggoted looney, just like the extremists you despise so much.

I see surface facts makes life more comfortable for you. American Government supported Iraq, because we (and countries like yours) did not want oil to be disrupted. The Sunni and the Shi'ites have been slaugtering themselves for decades. Iraq has nothing to do with it. I guess our foreign policy is what made Islamic extremists slaughter two Christians in the Sudan throughout the 90's...right? I'm sure you'll attribute that to America too.

I also see your are upset with the knowledge that your existence depends on the acts of men that can make the kinds of decisions that you are to weak to make. Or perhaps you merely lack the strength to face the obvious and your hopelessly "Politically Correct" blindness will only permit you blame things that can't hurt you. You're little temper tantrums continue to show us all what a child you are. I find it funny. Grow up.
 

SKILMATIC

Banned
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
3,407
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
GySgt said:
I see surface facts makes life more comfortable for you. American Government supported Iraq, because we (and countries like yours) did not want oil to be disrupted. The Sunni and the Shi'ites have been slaugtering themselves for decades. Iraq has nothing to do with it. I guess our foreign policy is what made Islamic extremists slaughter two Christians in the Sudan throughout the 90's...right? I'm sure you'll attribute that to America too.

I also see your are upset with the knowledge that your existence depends on the acts of men that can make the kinds of decisions that you are to weak to make. Or perhaps you merely lack the strength to face the obvious and your hopelessly "Politically Correct" blindness will only permit you blame things that can't hurt you. You're little temper tantrums continue to show us all what a child you are. I find it funny. Grow up.

Well lets be honest with ourselves here gunny. Not alot of mental disorders do well with easy comprehendable facts. But if you give them conspiracy theories that smear Bush they are all over it and they call it facts. Also in order for a source to be adequate enough it must pass 3 tests. 1)It must declare that the US are terrorists 2)it must put cindy sheehan on the front page and make her look like Mother Teressa 3)lastly, it must be a anti american socialist source like that of the Cremlin Times :lol:
 

jallman

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
36,913
Reaction score
11,282
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
SKILMATIC said:
Well lets be honest with ourselves here gunny. Not alot of mental disorders do well with easy comprehendable facts. But if you give them conspiracy theories that smear Bush they are all over it and they call it facts. Also in order for a source to be adequate enough it must pass 3 tests. 1)It must declare that the US are terrorists 2)it must put cindy sheehan on the front page and make her look like Mother Teressa 3)lastly, it must be a anti american socialist source like that of the Cremlin Times :lol:

Ok let me toss in my two cents on this one. I am the first to avoid war at all costs if at all possible...but I am with Gunny (did I get that right this time? *looks around to make sure Navy and the rank and title enforcement posse isnt lurking nearby*) on this one. There is no peaceful resolution to this issue because the Islamic extremists will not let there be a peace. Israel has a right to exist and they have shown so much spirit by giving up what they have. And as classless low lifes, palestine and the rest of the ME have done nothing but degraded israel's move for peace. I say finish Iraq nice and clean and then turn our attention to the rest of them even if it takes a draft.
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,627
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
jallman said:
Ok let me toss in my two cents on this one. I am the first to avoid war at all costs if at all possible...but I am with Gunny (did I get that right this time? *looks around to make sure Navy and the rank and title enforcement posse isnt lurking nearby*) on this one. There is no peaceful resolution to this issue because the Islamic extremists will not let there be a peace. Israel has a right to exist and they have shown so much spirit by giving up what they have. And as classless low lifes, palestine and the rest of the ME have done nothing but degraded israel's move for peace. I say finish Iraq nice and clean and then turn our attention to the rest of them even if it takes a draft.

Good one.

Be careful with agreeing with me. 'Robin' may make a bashing thread about you like this one....

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=4097&page=2
 

jallman

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
36,913
Reaction score
11,282
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
GySgt said:
Good one.

Be careful with agreeing with me. 'Robin' may make a bashing thread about you like this one....

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=4097&page=2

Yeah well, I just read that thread, or as much as I could stomach. You know what the difference between a window and that thread was? A window is harder to see through.

I dont always agree with you...like that time we got into it over bombing japan...but this is one point that is so obvious...these people dont even get along with eachother. They are never going to get along with us or anyone else...its in their dogma to kill...to constantly kill.

Now the rest of the world isnt going to step up and help...so here is my idea...as long as we are fighting this war alone, we withdraw any financial support we give anywhere else and funnel it into taking out this threat. When its all over, they will thank us just like they thanked us when we gave the germany a shiner and got rid of the nazis. Just my take on it right now...
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,627
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
jallman said:
Yeah well, I just read that thread, or as much as I could stomach. You know what the difference between a window and that thread was? A window is harder to see through.

I dont always agree with you...like that time we got into it over bombing japan...but this is one point that is so obvious...these people dont even get along with eachother. They are never going to get along with us or anyone else...its in their dogma to kill...to constantly kill.

Now the rest of the world isnt going to step up and help...so here is my idea...as long as we are fighting this war alone, we withdraw any financial support we give anywhere else and funnel it into taking out this threat. When its all over, they will thank us just like they thanked us when we gave the germany a shiner and got rid of the nazis. Just my take on it right now...

Page two was the best part.

Doesn't things seem so easy at our level? What happens to people once they become President, because you know they think like we do before hand. Do the great ideas just float away or does the diplomatic smack of reality hit them?
 

jallman

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
36,913
Reaction score
11,282
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
GySgt said:
Page two was the best part.

Doesn't things seem so easy at our level? What happens to people once they become President, because you know they think like we do before hand. Do the great ideas just float away or does the diplomatic smack of reality hit them?

I dont think the great ideas float away, but the great ideals become way too costly. If we dont do something about this problem now, then 9-11 is just scratching the surface. Blowing something up isnt half as insidious or terrifying as anthraxing the water supply of a metropolitan area...and trust me, that was coming pretty soon...
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,627
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
jallman said:
I dont think the great ideas float away, but the great ideals become way too costly. If we dont do something about this problem now, then 9-11 is just scratching the surface. Blowing something up isnt half as insidious or terrifying as anthraxing the water supply of a metropolitan area...and trust me, that was coming pretty soon...


Good point. You think like I do.
 

akyron

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
10,352
Reaction score
2,436
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Tashah said:
Israel withdrew from Gaza unilaterally and peacefully. So far, there has been no corresponding gesture of peaceful intentions and good-will from the Palestinians.

It isn't a question of Palestinians 'lowering' their historical aim (pushing Israel into the sea), but one of forevermore casting that unobtainable goal into the ash-heap of history.

I cannot emphasize this more clearly... Israel is not going anywhere. The sooner the Palestinians recognize and accept this truism, the sooner peace and prosperity can reign in the region. Israel has extended the proverbial olive branch and so far, it is withering in the barrenness of Palestinian reciprocity.




I am coming to believe there will never be peace between these two peoples due to the religious connotations inherent in their history of enslavement and war. Israel should just kick their asses completely and be done with them. There will never be peace otherwise.


Exodus 6:6-8
"6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I [am] the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I [am] the LORD. "


I am not religious but I can see how the Arabs would take it personally to
be forever declared the enemy of Gods chosen people. No wonder they accepted the ravings of a mad pedofile claiming to be the prophet of all powerful Allah to counter this.
 

vergiss

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
2,356
Reaction score
1
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
GySgt - how can you say you don't think it an exclusively Muslim problem, or a problem with most Muslims, and yet still say that their religion is uncivilised, barbaric, etc? Terrorism most definitely is, but a faith is not.

Abortion clinics won't work? Fine. What about the IRA when they were blowing up English targets? They had a frighteningly large number of supporters, but you don't see me running around screaming about the Irish being weak or Catholicism being a false religion.
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,627
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
vergiss said:
GySgt - how can you say you don't think it an exclusively Muslim problem, or a problem with most Muslims, and yet still say that their religion is uncivilised, barbaric, etc? Terrorism most definitely is, but a faith is not.

Abortion clinics won't work? Fine. What about the IRA when they were blowing up English targets? They had a frighteningly large number of supporters, but you don't see me running around screaming about the Irish being weak or Catholicism being a false religion.


Because I see two seperate entities. I've said this plenty of times. The world is covered with Muslim people who make up the majority of the peaceful side of Islam. It is only in the Middle East where we see an overwhelming birth of terrorism. American foreign policies surely indirectly has a hand in this, but largely this is a scapegoat. The Middle East represents a very fundamental form of Islam and it is notorious for stagnating individual freedoms and future opportunities. In the decaying Arab world, Islam is the problem—because of the way bitter old men interpret and deform its more humane precepts while embracing its cruelest injunctions. By their inability to grow with the rest of the world and holding on to age old practices of oppression, Islam extremists are making a gory mess of their faith. This blasphemous Arab version of Islam has been preached to the masses and is spreading. It is this brand of Islam that made it's way into Africa, southern Europe, and to the fringes of Asia. Even China is showing concern for this in their own provinces.

I appreciate that you are trying to draw comparisons to other things and I get your point, but there is no comparison to this. The IRA practiced its violence in a very tiny piece of the world and was focused. The violence coming out of the Islamic religion is not focused and is spreading to who ever defies their god. They have declared war on Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and even other sects of Islam. Imagine when they get nukes.

So far who is trying to fight this or even recognize it? Where are the mass protestings against Islamic terrorism by the majority of the peaceful Muslims around the world? The bloody-handed terrorists and their followers are determined to pay any price to frustrate those Muslims who believe that God is capable of smiling, or that it is possible to change the earth without challenging Heaven. When will they realize that this is a struggle within their religion for an identity of peace or an identity of a hangman's noose?
 
Last edited:

vergiss

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
2,356
Reaction score
1
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Well, so long as you accept that it's only Islamic fundamentalists that are the evil problem. I can't disagree there, and certainly want something done about it. However, I still have a problem with any measures that are too harsh or violent. Good Muslim men and women come out of the Middle East too - I've met many. You cannot sacrifice one group of innocents for another group, just to get a few bad seeds.
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,627
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
vergiss said:
Well, so long as you accept that it's only Islamic fundamentalists that are the evil problem. I can't disagree there, and certainly want something done about it. However, I still have a problem with any measures that are too harsh or violent. Good Muslim men and women come out of the Middle East too - I've met many. You cannot sacrifice one group of innocents for another group, just to get a few bad seeds.


Accept? I've said nothing new from what I have always said before and it is a lot more than a "few bad seeds." The whole reason we have troops involved in the Middle East is to refrain from sacrificing as many of the others as possible. We could just nuke them, but that's not what we do.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom