Stop pretending the U.S. is a democracy

[RobertU]

Most people understand that the electoral college is a farce, giving us two presidents in this century who took office despite losing the popular vote. Anywhere else on the globe, that result would be seen as a seizure of power by a dictator.

But less widely understood is that Congress is an even larger farce. The U.S. House of Representative can lay some claim to be a truly representative body if you discount the distortions of gerrymandering. But the Senate, where any legislation must also be approved, has no such pretense. Every state has the same power, regardless of population.

Thus, voters in Wyoming, the least populous state, with about 577,000 people, have the same political power as the voters in any of the more populous states. If you live in Texas or California, only the first 577,000 people have the same power as those in Wyoming; the rest have no effective representation. So, just do the math to see the national implications. Multiply 577,000 by 50 to give you the population truly represented in the Senate: 28,850,000. The remaining 302,600,000 people (U.S. population of 331,450,000 minus 28,850,000) have no effective voice in the Senate.

Now admittedly, sometimes legislation is passed because the interests of the smaller states and the larger states are the same. Or sometimes the senators from big states will bribe senators from little states with pork barrel projects to pass legislation. Or sometimes Congress will move on an issue because the alternative is revolution, such as with the Great Depression. But all in all, representation is a joke. And any claim that the U.S. is a democracy is also a joke.

Nor is the U.S. a genuine republic, as some conservatives will claim. Even in a republic, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people, not by a process that distorts and seriously limits such representation.

 

[Phys251]

Most people understand that the electoral college is a farce, giving us two presidents in this century who took office despite losing the popular vote. Anywhere else on the globe, that result would be seen as a seizure of power by a dictator.

But less widely understood is that Congress is an even larger farce. The U.S. House of Representative can lay some claim to be a truly representative body if you discount the distortions of gerrymandering. But the Senate, where any legislation must also be approved, has no such pretense. Every state has the same power, regardless of population.

Thus, voters in Wyoming, the least populous state, with about 577,000 people, have the same political power as the voters in any of the more populous states. If you live in Texas or California, only the first 577,000 people have the same power as those in Wyoming; the rest have no effective representation. So, just do the math to see the national implications. Multiply 577,000 by 50 to give you the population truly represented in the Senate: 28,850,000. The remaining 302,600,000 people (U.S. population of 331,450,000 minus 28,850,000) have no effective voice in the Senate.

Now admittedly, sometimes legislation is passed because the interests of the smaller states and the larger states are the same. Or sometimes the senators from big states will bribe senators from little states with pork barrel projects to pass legislation. Or sometimes Congress will move on an issue because the alternative is revolution, such as with the Great Depression. But all in all, representation is a joke. And any claim that the U.S. is a democracy is also a joke.

Nor is the U.S. a genuine republic, as some conservatives will claim. Even in a republic, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people, not by a process that distorts and seriously limits such representation.

We should be a democracy, but flaws in our design and in our implementation impede that. You listed some examples. Others are shitheads who want to invade the Capitol to overturn the will of the people.

 

[Artymoon]

Is there a system you would prefer over a Republic?

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Most people understand that the electoral college is a farce, giving us two presidents in this century who took office despite losing the popular vote. Anywhere else on the globe, that result would be seen as a seizure of power by a dictator.

But less widely understood is that Congress is an even larger farce. The U.S. House of Representative can lay some claim to be a truly representative body if you discount the distortions of gerrymandering. But the Senate, where any legislation must also be approved, has no such pretense. Every state has the same power, regardless of population.

Thus, voters in Wyoming, the least populous state, with about 577,000 people, have the same political power as the voters in any of the more populous states. If you live in Texas or California, only the first 577,000 people have the same power as those in Wyoming; the rest have no effective representation. So, just do the math to see the national implications. Multiply 577,000 by 50 to give you the population truly represented in the Senate: 28,850,000. The remaining 302,600,000 people (U.S. population of 331,450,000 minus 28,850,000) have no effective voice in the Senate.

Now admittedly, sometimes legislation is passed because the interests of the smaller states and the larger states are the same. Or sometimes the senators from big states will bribe senators from little states with pork barrel projects to pass legislation. Or sometimes Congress will move on an issue because the alternative is revolution, such as with the Great Depression. But all in all, representation is a joke. And any claim that the U.S. is a democracy is also a joke.

Nor is the U.S. a genuine republic, as some conservatives will claim. Even in a republic, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people, not by a process that distorts and seriously limits such representation.

It's a representative democracy.

This is well known.

Look it up.

 

[HIP56948]

Some of the decisions made by The Supreme Court hasn't helped the cause...

 

[mrjurrs]

Most people understand that the electoral college is a farce, giving us two presidents in this century who took office despite losing the popular vote. Anywhere else on the globe, that result would be seen as a seizure of power by a dictator.

But less widely understood is that Congress is an even larger farce. The U.S. House of Representative can lay some claim to be a truly representative body if you discount the distortions of gerrymandering. But the Senate, where any legislation must also be approved, has no such pretense. Every state has the same power, regardless of population.

Thus, voters in Wyoming, the least populous state, with about 577,000 people, have the same political power as the voters in any of the more populous states. If you live in Texas or California, only the first 577,000 people have the same power as those in Wyoming; the rest have no effective representation. So, just do the math to see the national implications. Multiply 577,000 by 50 to give you the population truly represented in the Senate: 28,850,000. The remaining 302,600,000 people (U.S. population of 331,450,000 minus 28,850,000) have no effective voice in the Senate.

Now admittedly, sometimes legislation is passed because the interests of the smaller states and the larger states are the same. Or sometimes the senators from big states will bribe senators from little states with pork barrel projects to pass legislation. Or sometimes Congress will move on an issue because the alternative is revolution, such as with the Great Depression. But all in all, representation is a joke. And any claim that the U.S. is a democracy is also a joke.

Nor is the U.S. a genuine republic, as some conservatives will claim. Even in a republic, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people, not by a process that distorts and seriously limits such representation.

I would refer to the US as a representative republic. Of course we have democracy. In CA we elect state/local officials, and approve state/local propositions democratically. What does democracy look like where you live?

The House on the other hand is brutally gerrymandered nationally and has been under representing higher population States more with each election since 1930. The almost laughable reason for that is that the House Chamber only seats 435 people! Imo, the first thing a unified D government should do is eliminate the filibuster, then amend the Permanent Reapportionment Act of 1929.

The Senate is what it is. The founders drew it up that way and while there is a path to change that it is not anywhere on the horizon. However, if the same politics as the House has above exist, admit the States of Columbia and Puerto Rico.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Most people understand that the electoral college is a farce, giving us two presidents in this century who took office despite losing the popular vote. Anywhere else on the globe, that result would be seen as a seizure of power by a dictator.

But less widely understood is that Congress is an even larger farce. The U.S. House of Representative can lay some claim to be a truly representative body if you discount the distortions of gerrymandering. But the Senate, where any legislation must also be approved, has no such pretense. Every state has the same power, regardless of population.

Thus, voters in Wyoming, the least populous state, with about 577,000 people, have the same political power as the voters in any of the more populous states. If you live in Texas or California, only the first 577,000 people have the same power as those in Wyoming; the rest have no effective representation. So, just do the math to see the national implications. Multiply 577,000 by 50 to give you the population truly represented in the Senate: 28,850,000. The remaining 302,600,000 people (U.S. population of 331,450,000 minus 28,850,000) have no effective voice in the Senate.

Now admittedly, sometimes legislation is passed because the interests of the smaller states and the larger states are the same. Or sometimes the senators from big states will bribe senators from little states with pork barrel projects to pass legislation. Or sometimes Congress will move on an issue because the alternative is revolution, such as with the Great Depression. But all in all, representation is a joke. And any claim that the U.S. is a democracy is also a joke.

Nor is the U.S. a genuine republic, as some conservatives will claim. Even in a republic, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people, not by a process that distorts and seriously limits such representation.

The Electoral System is what we have in the Constitution that outlines how we elect our President. It certainly is part of our democratic system.There are more than one form of democracy.

What Are The Different Types Of Democracy?

Anyone reading this is quite familiar with the blanket term - democracy. But there are as many theories concerned with democracy as there are governments in the world!

www.scienceabc.com

 

[Helix]

I support banning gerrymandering nationwide, eliminating the EC, and making DC a state.

 

[Integrityrespec]

I support banning gerrymandering nationwide, eliminating the EC, and making DC a state.

No.

 

[Fletch]

I would refer to the US as a representative republic. Of course we have democracy. In CA we elect state/local officials, and approve state/local propositions democratically. What does democracy look like where you live?

The House on the other hand is brutally gerrymandered nationally and has been under representing higher population States more with each election since 1930. The almost laughable reason for that is that the House Chamber only seats 435 people! Imo, the first thing a unified D government should do is eliminate the filibuster, then amend the Permanent Reapportionment Act of 1929.

The Senate is what it is. The founders drew it up that way and while there is a path to change that it is not anywhere on the horizon. However, if the same politics as the House has above exist, admit the States of Columbia and Puerto Rico.

Well, you were making a certain degree of sense until you exposed your real agenda in your last sentence. You want a permanent liberal majority that can tyrannize the minority. At least you are honest about that.

 

[Grand Mal]

Is there a system you would prefer over a Republic?

Republic means no monarchy. That's all it means.

 

[aociswundumho]

Well, you were making a certain degree of sense until you exposed your real agenda in your last sentence. You want a permanent liberal majority that can tyrannize the minority. At least you are honest about that.

What they really want is a one-party state, just like every far left country that has ever existed.

 

[Nickyjo]

It's a representative democracy.

This is well known.

Look it up.

True up to a point. The Senate is not representative of the country. Its existence is owed to the particular circumstances facing the Founders. It’s pretty obvious that if starting over, we would do things differently. When the Dakotas and Wyoming have three times the representation of California, that’s not democratic.

 

[Grand Mal]

What they really want is a one-party state, just like every far left country that has ever existed.

And every far right country that ever existed.
Here's a hint for the ideologically challenged- you can be far left or you can be liberal but you can't be both.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Well, you were making a certain degree of sense until you exposed your real agenda in your last sentence. You want a permanent liberal majority that can tyrannize the minority. At least you are honest about that.

They set up both houses but you seem to want to change just one. The Congress was set as it is to ensure representation for each state in each house and to prevent any one state from being left out.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

True up to a point. The Senate is not representative of the country. Its existence is owed to the particular circumstances facing the Founders. It’s pretty obvious that if starting over, we would do things differently. When the Dakotas and Wyoming have three times the representation of California, that’s not democratic.

I agree, but its more like 100 times or more.

 

[Integrityrespec]

True up to a point. The Senate is not representative of the country. Its existence is owed to the particular circumstances facing the Founders. It’s pretty obvious that if starting over, we would do things differently. When the Dakotas and Wyoming have three times the representation of California, that’s not democratic.

The voters in each state get to elect their representatives. We aren't starting over and it's not clear we would do things differently. You just wish that were so.
California has 53 representatives, Wyoming and the Dakotas, 1 each.

 

[Fletch]

Most people understand that the electoral college is a farce, giving us two presidents in this century who took office despite losing the popular vote. Anywhere else on the globe, that result would be seen as a seizure of power by a dictator.

But less widely understood is that Congress is an even larger farce. The U.S. House of Representative can lay some claim to be a truly representative body if you discount the distortions of gerrymandering. But the Senate, where any legislation must also be approved, has no such pretense. Every state has the same power, regardless of population.

Thus, voters in Wyoming, the least populous state, with about 577,000 people, have the same political power as the voters in any of the more populous states. If you live in Texas or California, only the first 577,000 people have the same power as those in Wyoming; the rest have no effective representation. So, just do the math to see the national implications. Multiply 577,000 by 50 to give you the population truly represented in the Senate: 28,850,000. The remaining 302,600,000 people (U.S. population of 331,450,000 minus 28,850,000) have no effective voice in the Senate.

Now admittedly, sometimes legislation is passed because the interests of the smaller states and the larger states are the same. Or sometimes the senators from big states will bribe senators from little states with pork barrel projects to pass legislation. Or sometimes Congress will move on an issue because the alternative is revolution, such as with the Great Depression. But all in all, representation is a joke. And any claim that the U.S. is a democracy is also a joke.

Nor is the U.S. a genuine republic, as some conservatives will claim. Even in a republic, laws are made by representatives chosen by the people, not by a process that distorts and seriously limits such representation.

The only reason we have a United States of America is because of the setup you are whining about. Small states didnt want to be dictated to by larger more populous ones. So to get every state to participate, certain concessions had to be made. Your real objection here is that you cant get everything you want when you want it and you dont get to impose you will onto people who disagree. You libs are free to turn California into a Marxist paradise, you just cant force Wyoming to join you.

 

[Fletch]

They set up both houses but you seem to want to change just one. The Congress was set as it is to ensure representation for each state in each house and to prevent any one state from being left out.

i dont want to change anything.

 

[Fletch]

I agree, but its more like 100 times or more.

But then the people of Wyoming have but one vote in the House of Representatives. It balances out

 

[Davin]

What they really want is a one-party state, just like every far left country that has ever existed.

You cons call for that every time when you say people should vote out democrats. You are the ones that want a one party state where only republicans are in charge.

 

[Fletch]

You cons call for that every time when you say people should vote out democrats. You are the ones that want a one party state where only republicans are in charge.

Thats just dumb. Cheering on one party over another is democracy in action. Changing the rules of the game to benefit one party over another is not.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

In theory its a democracy, its supposed to be a government of the people.

Those things you list are bona fide points, and could definitely use some tweaking and fixing especially the EC imo.

But teh single largest issue that makes the concept of "representative government" in teh US a laughable joke right now: the legalized bribery in the Congress.

The "representative government" is representing whomever pays it the most. Its blatant and not a lot of people really even talk about it. Too busy with drag queens and chix with dix in the womens showers.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Thats just dumb. Cheering on one party over another is democracy in action. Changing the rules of the game to benefit one party over another is not.

These two sold out political parties are certainly NOT "democracy in action" imo.

 

[aociswundumho]

And every far right country that ever existed.

Name one. Since I'm far right, my political views should be very close to these supposed "far right" countries.

Here's a hint for the ideologically challenged- you can be far left or you can be liberal but you can't be both.