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Stop Exploiting LGBT Issues to Demonize Islam and Justify Anti-Muslim Policies

TheDemSocialist

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[FONT=TIActuBeta-ExBold_web]IN THE LATE[/FONT] 1990s, Eric Rudolph — raised Catholic and affiliated for a time with a Christian Identity sect — bombed abortion clinics and a gay bar, insisting they were venues of immorality and evil. Last July, an Orthodox Jewish Israeli attacked the marchers in the Jerusalem LGBT pride parade, stabbing six of them, and one of them, a teenager, died of her wounds; justifying his attacks by appealing to Talmudic punishments for homosexuality, he had just been released from a 10-year prison term for doing the same in 2005. Yesterday, a Christian pastor from Arizona, Steven Anderson, praised the slaughter of 49 people in an Orlando LGBT club on the ground that “homosexuals are a bunch of disgusting perverts” and are “pedophiles.”

A 2015 Pew poll found that U.S. Muslims were more accepting of homosexuality than evangelical Christians, Mormons, and Jehovah’s Witnesses:
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It’s also true that parts of Islamic doctrine contain all sorts of horrible views on LGBTs, women, and other issues. But exactly the same is true of both the Christian Bible and Jewish Talmud. When it comes to Jews and Christians, people instinctively understand how bigoted and deceitful it is to cherry-pick particularly offensive excerpts from their holy books and use them to demonize all contemporary Christians and Jews.
Indeed, a standard tactic of neo-Nazis and other various anti-Semites is tocite ugly excerpts from the Talmud — including ones purportedly endorsing Jews holding non-Jews as slaves or lying to and stealing from non-Jews — asevidence of the dishonesty and untrustworthiness of Jews generally. We all understand that this tactic is so vile, unscholarly, and anti-intellectual precisely because modern adherents to those religions interpret and apply (or ignore) those provisions in all sorts of ways.
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Read more @: Stop Exploiting LGBT Issues to Demonize Islam and Justify Anti-Muslim Policies

Another fantastic piece by Glenn Greenwald :applaud:applaudSo many people didnt even wait until basic facts were known before they wrote their anti-Muslim pieces. There are so many misconceptions, hypocrisy, and flat out dishonesty about Muslims in this country. We should not exploit this tragedy and LGBT issues to demonize Islam and use it to justify anti-Muslim policies which are generally grounded in bigotry.


 

Jetboogieman

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I gotta say there were a couple of head turners there, people who've called gays disgusting suddenly coming out of the woodwork to use this to say...

"Yah see! We have to discriminate against Muslims, think of the Gays! Won't someone thinks of the gays!"
 

MrT

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I gotta say there were a couple of head turners there, people who've called gays disgusting suddenly coming out of the woodwork to use this to say...

"Yah see! We have to discriminate against Muslims, think of the Gays! Won't someone thinks of the gays!"

I saw a DP poster say something to the effect of, "There is a difference between disgust for their perverted behavior and hatred."
 

Fletch

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Read more @: Stop Exploiting LGBT Issues to Demonize Islam and Justify Anti-Muslim Policies

Another fantastic piece by Glenn Greenwald :applaud:applaudSo many people didnt even wait until basic facts were known before they wrote their anti-Muslim pieces. There are so many misconceptions, hypocrisy, and flat out dishonesty about Muslims in this country. We should not exploit this tragedy and LGBT issues to demonize Islam and use it to justify anti-Muslim policies which are generally grounded in bigotry.


Who is demonizing Islam and what anti-Muslim policies are you referring to?
 

TheDemSocialist

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Who is demonizing Islam and what anti-Muslim policies are you referring to?

Individuals in general, the presumptive Presidential nominee of the Republican Party...
 

soot

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From the article:

Depicting anti-LGBT hatred as the exclusive (or even predominant) province of Islam is not only defamatory toward Muslims but does a massive disservice to the millions of LGBTs who have been — and continue to be — seriously oppressed, targeted, and attacked by people who have nothing to do with Islam.

A fair and reasonable enough request.

But it still doesn't change the fact that Omar Mateen was a radical, fundamentalist Muslim and his attack on the Orlando nightclub Pulse was an act of Islamist terrorism.
 

TheDemSocialist

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How about some specifics?

Well I guess I will have to state the obvious.
"Muslim ban"
Requiring Muslim Americans to carry special IDs
Implement a database system to track Muslims in the United States
 

MaggieD

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Read more @: Stop Exploiting LGBT Issues to Demonize Islam and Justify Anti-Muslim Policies

Another fantastic piece by Glenn Greenwald :applaud:applaudSo many people didnt even wait until basic facts were known before they wrote their anti-Muslim pieces. There are so many misconceptions, hypocrisy, and flat out dishonesty about Muslims in this country. We should not exploit this tragedy and LGBT issues to demonize Islam and use it to justify anti-Muslim policies which are generally grounded in bigotry.



Why is your font so small?
 

Fletch

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Well I guess I will have to state the obvious.
"Muslim ban"
Requiring Muslim Americans to carry special IDs
Implement a database system to track Muslims in the United States

As opposed to those on the left who immediately point fingers at the NRA, Christians, and legal gun owners and apologize for murderous Muslim savages. You want laws that violate the rights of American citizens and discriminate against gun owners and demand new laws that would not have stopped this sort of thing from happening. The disgusting, disturbed people are on the left. But that is always true.
 

TheDemSocialist

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As opposed to those on the left who immediately point fingers at the NRA, Christians, and legal gun owners and apologize for murderous Muslim savages. You want laws that violate the rights of American citizens and discriminate against gun owners and demand new laws that would not have stopped this sort of thing from happening. The disgusting, disturbed people are on the left. But that is always true.

Sooooo....... Your point is, that we should exploit LGBT issues to demonize Islam and justify anti-Muslim policies, because of increased calls for stricter gun laws?
 

chuckiechan

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I gotta say there were a couple of head turners there, people who've called gays disgusting suddenly coming out of the woodwork to use this to say...

"Yah see! We have to discriminate against Muslims, think of the Gays! Won't someone thinks of the gays!"

You do have a point there. As I have gotten older, I look at gays as mostly defenseless people, easily victimized and kicked around. Whether this is true or not is not the point. We would probably have the same outrage if this happened at a KKK rally.

Sometimes we all feel sorry for the little jerk that got his ass kicked by the bully.
 

Fletch

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Sooooo....... Your point is, that we should exploit LGBT issues to demonize Islam and justify anti-Muslim policies, because of increased calls for stricter gun laws?

No. The point is, you leftists are incapable of addressing the issue at hand--that a Muslim declared loyalty to ISIS and slaughtered 49 people. What do you have to say about that? Nothing. You care only about your own political agenda (while denouncing others for doing the same). Your outrage is directed at your fellow Americans rather than the evil ideology behind these killings. There are numerous threads here already--all started by you and your comrades on the left that point the finger of blame everywhere but on the person who pulled the trigger and the ideology that motivated him. You would rather blame the NRA. You would rather pass new control on guns. You would rather blame Christians. You are more upset that someone might use LGBT issues to advance a cause you detest than you are at the murders themselves. Its disgusting, frankly. But that is the modern American left.
 

longview

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The OP made the statement,
A 2015 Pew poll found that U.S. Muslims were more accepting of homosexuality than evangelical Christians, Mormons, and Jehovah’s Witnesses:
Perhaps the question in the poll should have been expanded to places that practice sharia law.
While many countries legal systems are founded on judeo-christian values, they separate
many of the moral questions.
Within sharia countries the religion is the law, and many execute homosexuals.
The OP can point out radical individuals in other faiths who may attacked homosexuals, but
within some Islamic countries, the death penalty for homosexuality is codified in law.
 

TheDemSocialist

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No. The point is, you leftists are incapable of addressing the issue at hand--that a Muslim declared loyalty to ISIS and slaughtered 49 people. What do you have to say about that? Nothing. You care only about your own political agenda (while denouncing others for doing the same). Your outrage is directed at your fellow Americans rather than the evil ideology behind these killings. There are numerous threads here already--all started by you and your comrades on the left that point the finger of blame everywhere but on the person who pulled the trigger and the ideology that motivated him. You would rather blame the NRA. You would rather pass new control on guns. You would rather blame Christians. You are more upset that someone might use LGBT issues to advance a cause you detest than you are at the murders themselves. Its disgusting, frankly. But that is the modern American left.

What the **** are you talking about? Where did I blame Christians? Where did I not blame the individual?
 

eohrnberger

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Hmm.

As more and more background of Mateen is being uncovered and reported, the guy may have just been squeezed too hard between Islam's anti-LGBT teaching and coming to the realization of his own homosexuality, until he popped under that pressure.

The redirection to ISIS, and other groups, and the confusion of citing allegiance to multiple Islamic militant groups on both sides of Sunni and Shia divide make that rather part of it suspicious.

The fact that ISIS claimed some sort of responsibility or something about this shooting, well, in their case, any publicity is good publicity, so that's not any sort of indication.

If it actually does in fact turn out to be that, then we have yet another instance where the teaching of Islam is actually hurting people, but this time isn't it the teachings from moderate Islam? May not be so 'moderate' after all.
 

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What the **** are you talking about? Where did I blame Christians? Where did I not blame the individual?

Perhaps you didn't read your own link which did just that. And your outrage isn't against the Muslim killer, but against those who might use the issue to further a political agenda. What the hell do you think you are doing? Is it only liberals who are allowed to exploit tragedies for political gain? Apparently so. Perhaps I missed the OP you started where you denounced people on the left who called for gun control before the bodies had even been removed from the building. Could you link me to that thread please. Thanks. Oh that's right, it doesn't exist. It is the left who are the exploiters here. And you are just pissed because you think someone on the right is moving in on your territory.
 

TheDemSocialist

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Perhaps you didn't read your own link which did just that.
Oh my god.. No it didnt. Please point to where it blames Christianity for this attack....

And your outrage isn't against the Muslim killer,
Ummm no.... Its against the man who carried out the attack.

but against those who might use the issue to further a political agenda.
Im speaking out against those, like Trump, who will use this hate crime/terrorist attack as a way to further their anti-Muslim bigoted policies.

What the hell do you think you are doing?
Responding to your knee jerk posts.

Is it only liberals who are allowed to exploit tragedies for political gain? Apparently so.
Calls for increase gun control is one thing. But exploiting LGBT issues for "Muslim bans", requiring Muslims to carry special IDs, tracking Muslims in a database is a whole other thing and is bigotry.

Perhaps I missed the OP you started where you denounced people on the left who called for gun control before the bodies had even been removed from the building. Could you link me to that thread please. Thanks. Oh that's right, it doesn't exist. It is the left who are the exploiters here. And you are just pissed because you think someone on the right is moving in on your territory.
:lamo Dear god.
 
G

gsbet

If we can't blame the ideology that caused this massacre when can we blame an ideology? we blame the nazi's for killing jews, we blame Christianity for discriminating against gays and trans people, why then is it not okay to blame Islam for its clearly anti woman and anti gay teachings?

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction.

the Quran in Sura 2:282 says:
And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).

we have numerous examples of this "religion of peace" going out of its way to kill people.

however this does not mean we should ban all muslims from the US. It means we should criticize it like any other religion on this planet if its followers committed so many terrible crimes.
 

TheDemSocialist

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If we can't blame the ideology that caused this massacre when can we blame an ideology? we blame the nazi's for killing jews, we blame Christianity for discriminating against gays and trans people, why then is it not okay to blame Islam for its clearly anti woman and anti gay teachings?

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction.

the Quran in Sura 2:282 says:
And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).

we have numerous examples of this "religion of peace" going out of its way to kill people.

however this does not mean we should ban all muslims from the US. It means we should criticize it like any other religion on this planet if its followers committed so many terrible crimes.

Sure we could and do criticize religion. But to blame the whole religion is pretty dumb and in fact is a key example cited in the article:

"It’s also true that parts of Islamic doctrine contain all sorts of horrible views on LGBTs, women, and other issues. But exactly the same is true of both the Christian Bible and Jewish Talmud. When it comes to Jews and Christians, people instinctively understand how bigoted and deceitful it is to cherry-pick particularly offensive excerpts from their holy books and use them to demonize all contemporary Christians and Jews.

Indeed, a standard tactic of neo-Nazis and other various anti-Semites is to cite ugly excerpts from the Talmud — including ones purportedly endorsing Jews holding non-Jews as slaves or lying to and stealing from non-Jews — as evidence of the dishonesty and untrustworthiness of Jews generally. We all understand that this tactic is so vile, unscholarly, and anti-intellectual precisely because modern adherents to those religions interpret and apply (or ignore) those provisions in all sorts of ways.

Exactly the same is true of Muslims, yet an entire cottage industry of pseudo-intellectual charlatans — including ones who admit to never having even read the Quran — uses exactly this tawdry tactic to demonize Islam (watch this social experiment where people are read heinous Bible passages and falsely told they are from the Quran). There are literally millions upon millions of Muslims who hold positive views about, and engage in positive interactions with, gay people with regularity (which is why it’s almost always true that those most devoted to demonizing Islam are the ones who know the fewest number of Muslims (just as is true of LGBTs, ironically))."
 

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Oh my god.. No it didnt. Please point to where it blames Christianity for this attack....
I didn't say it blame Christianity for the attack


Ummm no.... Its against the man who carried out the attack.
Good. Tell me what you think about the guy then detail for me what his motives were and the ideology that drove him to commit these crimes.


Im speaking out against those, like Trump, who will use this hate crime/terrorist attack as a way to further their anti-Muslim bigoted policies.
LIke I said, you want this crime to only work to further your leftist agenda and are pissed because someone might be moving in on your territory.


Calls for increase gun control is one thing. But exploiting LGBT issues for "Muslim bans", requiring Muslims to carry special IDs, tracking Muslims in a database is a whole other thing and is bigotry.
Calls for gun control is YOUR agenda. That's the point. You want to use this crime to feed your ideology and are pissed that someone else might have the same idea. It is impossible for you to not see your hypocrisy here. Yet you don't.


:lamo Dear god.
You just proved the point I was making, so :lamo Dear God right back atcha.
 

TheDemSocialist

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I didn't say it blame Christianity for the attack
Then what are you accusing Glenn Greenwald and myself blaming Christianity for?


Good. Tell me what you think about the guy then detail for me what his motives were and the ideology that drove him to commit these crimes.
:doh Oh my god. The guy was a deranged radical-Islamist and a piece of ****.


LIke I said, you want this crime to only work to further your leftist agenda and are pissed because someone might be moving in on your territory.
Sure if speaking out against the exploitation of LGBT issues to further bigoted policies is considered "leftist", then yea, sure.

Calls for gun control is YOUR agenda. That's the point. You want to use this crime to feed your ideology and are pissed that someone else might have the same idea. It is impossible for you to not see your hypocrisy here. Yet you don't.
You were the one that brought gun control in it. And also, you seem to be confused on what the point of the article is, its not saying you cannot politicize an even such as this (a hate crime/terrorist attack), or have it be the "launching pad" for political issues, the point of the article is one should not exploit the event or LGBT issues for bigoted policies.

You just proved the point I was making, so :lamo Dear God right back atcha.
Your point being that I am for more gun laws? Okay...
 
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Fletch

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Then what are you accusing Glenn Greenwald and myself blaming Christianity for?



:doh Oh my god. The guy was a deranged radical-Islamist and a piece of ****.



Sure if speaking out against the exploitation of LGBT issues to further bigoted policies is considered "leftist", then yea, sure.


You were the one that brought gun control in it. And also, you seem to be confused on what the point of the article is, its not saying you cannot politicize an even such as this (a hate crime/terrorist attack), or have it be the "launching pad" for political issues, the point of the article is one should not exploit the event or LGBT issues for bigoted policies.


Your point being that I am for more gun laws? Okay...

The point being you are a hypocrite. You don't mind if the tragedy is exploited so long as it is exploited for political causes you support. .
 
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