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Stolen valor

And you clearly never served in my Army.
Thus showing you do not know of what you speak and are prone to making erroneous assumptions.


Are you just trolling or do you really not get my last 3 comments. So far I vote troll.
Do you really expect another to answer questions when you yourself did not answer what was asked of you? iLOL
Is this possibly more 11 bang bang mentality?
 
That's been about the sum total of my exposure to stolen valor, in large part because I really don't care enough to bother questioning every idiot I see walking around in an obviously ate up mess of a uniform.

But if I see a guy with a "homeless vet" sign I'll ask him what unit he was in, maybe his MOS, whatever, and maybe chat him up a little bit.

You know pretty much instantly whether the guy is FOS or not.

I've bought a couple of homeless vets lunch, bought a bottle for quite a few more, handed out some cash.

I'm not really one to judge and I suspect that many of these guys need a pint of Beam a hell of a lot more than they need a lecture from me.

I've always said that when a military man runs across another military man it only takes five minutes of conversation to size each other up. We don't talk the same as other people. We use terms like BASIC, AIT, PCS, ETC, MOS... Most of us still walk 120 steps a minute, 9 to the front and 6 to the rear. We don't do it on purpose, we just do it. We don't carry anything in our right hand and we remove our cover when walking through the threshold. When we start talking to each other we will have had something in common, whether it is a duty assignment, or whatever.
 
Are you are saying you have the typical ASVAB scores of a ground pounded too? Get a grip.

I was in the grunts - we had several guys with 99 ASVAB scores, 120-130 GT's, college degrees, etc. My first platoon leader had a Master's from Harvard, and was a two-time Jeopardy champion. You might be surprised.

Folks who engage in this type of behavior to receive unearned accolades are not normal to start off with

Nah. There are some like that, but lots just also want money/free stuff/positive attention, etc.

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I was in the grunts
iLOL Good for you?


- we had several guys with 99 ASVAB scores, 120-130 GT's, college degrees, etc. My first platoon leader had a Master's from Harvard, and was a two-time Jeopardy champion. You might be surprised.
I am aware of exceptions to the rule.
And yes, exceptions to the norm are always a surprise.


Nah. There are some like that, but lots just also want money/free stuff/positive attention, etc.
Most of those seeking unearned accolades have something wrong with them.

Just as those who go out of their way to berate them do.
 
iLOL Good for you?

I am aware of exceptions to the rule.
And yes, exceptions to the norm are always a surprise.

They weren't exceptions. Eclecticism was the only rule. My early roommates were a devout Presbyterian with a 1530 SAT score and a guy who used to run drugs and guns in Detroit (and loved America more than anyone else in the platoon). We got along great. The only "rule" was that there was no "normal". Normal people don't join the Marine Corps Infantry.

Most of those seeking unearned accolades have something wrong with them.

Evidence for this assertion?



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They weren't exceptions. Eclecticism was the only rule. My early roommates were a devout Presbyterian with a 1530 SAT score and a guy who used to run drugs and guns in Detroit (and loved America more than anyone else in the platoon). We got along great. The only "rule" was that there was no "normal".
Yeah, they are exceptions otherwise every one would be similarly situated and the exceptions would be the opposite end of the spectrum.


Normal people don't join the Marine Corps Infantry
I concede your point that only abnormal people join the Marine Infantry. That doesn't mean that exceptions to the rule doesn't apply.


Evidence for this assertion?
That they are seeking unearned accolades.
 
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Yeah, they are exceptions otherwise every one would be similarly situated and the exceptions would be the opposite end of the spectrum.

What part of "they weren't the exception" was too difficult for you, there?

That they are seeking unearned accolades.

So your assertion is that lying and greed indicate mental disability?

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What part of "they weren't the exception" was too difficult for you, there?
Nothing difficult in it at all.
I know is simply isn't true.
Not all Marine infantry or Army infantry are the creme of the crop. Only a few are exceptions. That is why the ASVAB line score requirement is so low (or on the past, GT score.).
The dumber can't be placed any higher. The exception to the rule has always been the more intelligent, no matter what you say.



I see you missed my edit.
No big deal.


So your assertion is that lying and greed indicate mental disability?
I see this is also difficult for you.
What I said was that those (in reference to this subject) who are seeking out unearned accolades have something wrong with them.
 
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Are you are saying you have the typical ASVAB scores of a ground pounded too? Get a grip.

Wow, just wow.

My GT score in 1982 (when I was 17) was over 135, and I chose to join the grunts. I have found far more "smart grunts" then I have "smart RADAR operators" to be honest. I originally took the test thinking of joining the Navy (Shore Patrol), but they saw my scores and tried to push me into the nuclear power program. I passed on that, and after looking at all the branches made my choice. Marine Infantry, is what I decided.

And just to bust the "dumb grunt" crapola you are spewing, let's look at the requirements, shall we?

To Join the Marines, you have to have a GT score of 32. But to be an Infantryman in the Marine Corps you have to have a GT score of 80 or higher. Those with the low scores end up in other fields, like cooks, mechanics, and the like.

I am actually on my 5th MOS. 0311, 8151, 0411, 14T, and now 25B. 18 years of service, and I to be honest have never understood the need from one member of the service to put down another because of their MOS. All are required, and all have skills needed. I have known computer techs in the Army with absolutely no common sense and as aware of what is going on in the world as a rock. I knew a grunt in my second unit that was working on his Masters in English Literature.

I was in the grunts - we had several guys with 99 ASVAB scores, 120-130 GT's, college degrees, etc. My first platoon leader had a Master's from Harvard, and was a two-time Jeopardy champion. You might be surprised.

I knew quite a few in the Marines that were persuing college degrees while still in. But for the most part they could only attend in the winter, deployment and training schedules made it almost impossible to attend classes during the rest of the year. And many took MCI (for those that do not know, Marine Corps Institute, originally a mail-in and now on-line training program) that specidifally had college credits attached to them.

I am aware of exceptions to the rule.
And yes, exceptions to the norm are always a surprise.

Wow, you seem to have an almost pathalogical hatred of the Infantry. Completely derailing a thread just to vent that hatred.

Most of those seeking unearned accolades have something wrong with them.

No, actually most of them simply seem to want something for nothing.

For the homeless, they think it will get them more money when begging or favors at places like shelters and the like. For a lot of the younger crowd, they think it will get them free things, like drinks. Or help them score with chicks.

Bragging or expanding on military service most of the time is not much different then trying to brag in front of somebody you want to impress. And while most do have some kind of mental illnesses, they are generally largely functional. And if you look into the Stolen Valor web sites, a great many of them are actually criminal.

There are scores of them all around the country. Somebody starts a martial arts studio and claims to have been a SEAL-SF-Ranger. And quite often people come because of those claims. That is not mental, that is outright fraud. Others start things like survival schools, gun ranges, security companies, law enforcement supply companies, and the like. Many use these claims as a form of legitimacy and to get contracts. They are not mentally ill, they know very well exactly what they are doing.

And others are more obvious conmon.

I suggest you do some research into Stolen Valor. The videos of John Shipley are a great place to start. A retired Navy SEAL, he has made a name for himself for calling out phony SEALs. He is the only past or retired member who has been given access to all SEAL training and recruitment records, and researches the individuals thoroughly prior to calling them out. He gives them a chance to come clean, and then tears them apart on video. Highly entertaining, look him up on YouTube.

Hall Of Shame - Guardian Of Valor

That is another one I have frequently viewed over the years. Once again, a large numbers have criminal convictions on charges ranging from fraud and child molestation to attempted murder and drug sales.

And the following is ultimately my favorite:

Stolen Valor : This ain't Hell, but you can see it from here

This Ain't Hell does serious research into claims against individuals before they post them. For one, they make sure that they are not just somebody who likes to wear the uniform and does not claim any military connection. Then they use FOIA information to confirm or deny the claims. They have even outed officers in FVW-AL posts who had never served, believe it or not.
 
Not all Marine infantry or Army infantry are the creme of the crop. Only a few are exceptions. That is why the ASVAB line score requirement is so low (or on the past, GT score.).

Then explain the fact that the minimum GT score to join the Marines is 32, yet it is 80 to be an 03XX?

You can have a GT score of 35, but as long as your MM score (Mechanical, vbasically spatial accuity and problem solving) scores are high enough you can be an F-18 mechanic. And the "Creme of the crop" (Marine Recon) has a GT requirement that is among the highest in the Marine Corps (105). But yea, I guess they are exceptions to the rule that they all be as dumb as a bag of rocks.
 
Are you are saying you have the typical ASVAB scores of a ground pounded too? Get a grip.

Folks who engage in this type of behavior to receive unearned accolades are not normal to start off with. Do you really not understand that?
Those who go out of their way to berate them aren't any better off.

You have a point there.

After all we have a potential first female president who tried the " stolen valor card" I guess we are going to overlook her mental issues then...............right?
 
I have never understood those that belittle someone based upon their MOS. A good piece of my career was spent at USAFAD sites in Germany and The Netherlands. These are remote sites with usually 40 - 80 people depending upon the FA weapons being stored. The 15 series (later 13 series) soldiers looked at themselves as the top of the heap. Headquarters platoon was just as valuable if not more valuable than the weapons shifts. Does everyone think that being a military cook is easy? If they do, they haven't worked in a military dining facility. The unit clerk just types? The supply clerk just orders? The communications just play with the radios? These people actually do a job every day where, in peace time, the combat arms train.

Several times over my career I would see these signs in military motor pools. "Ordnance Corps - Without us the pride don't ride" And they are right.
 
Wow, just wow.
Yes. Wow, just wow! You are reading way too much into this banter.


I am actually on my 5th MOS. 0311, 8151, 0411, 14T, and now 25B. 18 years of service,
That's great and thank you for your service.


My GT score in 1982 (when I was 17) was over 135, and I chose to join the grunts.
Please explain how that was?
I ask because when I joined the Army in Jan 84 the top GT was 130 until I got out in 92. (I am aware that it has since changed.) I also took the ASVAB's twin bother, the AFCT while in. Still the top GT was 130. Not to mention the practice ASVABs in 1983. So how was it that you had over 135 in 1982?



and I to be honest have never understood the need from one member of the service to put down another because of their MOS.
Interservice rivalry will always be there just as there will always be rivalry between mos's and battalions and brigades.
I first attended MP OSUT at Fort McClellan for my basic, or as my certificate says, Phase One MP OSUT. Kind of weird doing it that way as I am sure I lost out on what ever equates as hand to hand in normal basic, but I did get to familiarize with weapons I normally would not have been able to. From there I went to Rucker for my AIT.
Anyways, you know what they taught at the time? That as an MP, for various reasons, they are better than all the other service members. One of those reasons was that Military Police was one of the MOS's that required the highest GT score of 110. So according to training, the MP's were smart. iLOL
They supposedly did this to instill additional confidence, in-part, because you may have to arrest someone of much higher rank than you are. Like a Private arresting a drunk Colonel, etc...


I have known computer techs in the Army with absolutely no common sense and as aware of what is going on in the world as a rock. I knew a grunt in my second unit that was working on his Masters in English Literature.

I knew quite a few in the Marines that were persuing college degrees while still in. But for the most part they could only attend in the winter, deployment and training schedules made it almost impossible to attend classes during the rest of the year. And many took MCI (for those that do not know, Marine Corps Institute, originally a mail-in and now on-line training program) that specidifally had college credits attached to them.
Yes, exceptions to the rule.


Wow, you seem to have an almost pathalogical hatred of the Infantry. Completely derailing a thread just to vent that hatred.
1. (jest to make a point for #3.) I doubt you are knowledgeable enough to make that assertation.
2. Again, wow you are reading way to much into this. No, while your comment was hilarious, I have no pathological hatred of the infantry.
3. You are being selective and unfair in your criticism. I am only answering in kind (derogatory) to what another has said first. (derogatory)
And such comment are just as derailing as answering to them. Yet you selectively chose me to criticize. Sad.
(See how that worked in #1? You say something derogatory first, and I say something in return.)

And then of course came cpwill wanting to interject.


And just to bust the "dumb grunt" crapola you are spewing,
You can't bust it.
Though they do have the dumb meme for a reason, that is not what I am addressing.
Damn, there is even a Yahoo question regarding it.
Why is infantry somehow associated with dumb?


You can't bust it because it is a mater of perspective based on observation. Nor is it just my perspective. It was something that was oft brought up in house because a difference was noticed.

When one has at least a GT of 110 out of 130 or higher, and is always around those of the same, those of mos's which required lower scores tended to stick out as oddities.

The same held true going to PLDC (Fort Jackson) and in taking Core instruction at BNOC (Fort Eustis) with those in Transportation.
 
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No, actually most of them simply seem to want something for nothing.
ac·co·lade
ˈakəˌlād/

noun: accolade; plural noun: accolades

1. an award or privilege granted as a special honor or as an acknowledgment of merit

Something for nothing is as you say, which, as I say, is an unearned accolade.
Which again is because they have something wrong with them.
You, nor anyone else has been able to refute that observation.
Do you honestly think that a person who wanting something for nothing and goes to the lengths of putting on a uniform to get it has nothing wrong with them?


And while most do have some kind of mental illnesses,
And yet you thought the need to respond knowing this. Strange.


they are generally largely functional.
And? Many people are largely functional even though they have something wrong with them. Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.


That is not mental, that is outright fraud.
It is as mental as it is fraud.
You can not disconnect the mental component of it.


Others start things like survival schools, gun ranges, security companies, law enforcement supply companies, and the like. Many use these claims as a form of legitimacy and to get contracts. They are not mentally ill, they know very well exactly what they are doing.
Please just stop.
All those who know they are doing wrong have something wrong with them if they are doing it anyways.
Let me put it this way, do you honestly think they are thinking correctly when they know it is wrong and are doing it anyways? I hope not.


I suggest you do some research into Stolen Valor.
I wouldn't be speaking about it if I hadn't.
So again.
Most of the YouTube videos I have seen, and most of those I have encountered, are those not dealing with a full deck.
Most of those seeking unearned accolades have something wrong with them.
Just as those who go out of their way to berate them do.
 
Then explain the fact that the minimum GT score to join the Marines is 32, yet it is 80 to be an 03XX?
Yet it is 80? Wut?

Just what it the lowest GT score allowed amongst the Marine mos's?

Is it 80?

Do you see many GT requirements at 80 outside of infantry MOS's, or are they mostly above 80?

And just how does today's GT of 80 on a 150 point scale compare to yesterdays 130 point scale?
I know back then that an 80 wasn't all that good.




You can have a GT score of 35, but as long as your MM score (Mechanical, vbasically spatial accuity and problem solving) scores are high enough you can be an F-18 mechanic. And the "Creme of the crop" (Marine Recon) has a GT requirement that is among the highest in the Marine Corps (105). But yea, I guess they are exceptions to the rule that they all be as dumb as a bag of rocks.
The creme of the crop I was speaking about were those with higher GT scores. Not MOS's.
 
Then explain the fact that the minimum GT score to join the Marines is 32, yet it is 80 to be an 03XX?

You can have a GT score of 35, but as long as your MM score (Mechanical, vbasically spatial accuity and problem solving) scores are high enough you can be an F-18 mechanic. And the "Creme of the crop" (Marine Recon) has a GT requirement that is among the highest in the Marine Corps (105). But yea, I guess they are exceptions to the rule that they all be as dumb as a bag of rocks.
[emoji38] in Excon-land, the majority of grunts are exceptions to the rule. For someone who denigrates others' intelligence, he sure seems to have a problem with the concept of fractions and percentages. :)



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in Excon-land, the majority of grunts are exceptions to the rule. For someone who denigrates others' intelligence, he sure seems to have a problem with the concept of fractions and percentages.
Thank you for demonstrating why the dumb infantry meme has traction.
And way not to recognize the information he provided was a meaningless reply to what I pointed out.

I provided information on the AFQT in hopes that he would grasp it before replying, but clearly you did not or didn't bother to avail yourself of it. Which establishes that you are only here for derogatory purposes and have no interest in the conversation at all.
Your derogatory bs fails and hilariously points back at you. And because it was derogatory it is what you get in return, though it will remain relevant to the discussion.


The 32 that you quoted and he spoke about, is the AFQT test score. It is not the GT score as he claimed.
An AFQT score indicates a person is of average trainability. And that 80 GT score that was cited is the lowest score acceptable in the Marines, and most mos's outside of an infantry mos require a higher GT score.

Here, this might help you understand.

And as already pointed out, a GT of 80 on today's scale of 151(0) is different than an 80 on yesterday's scale of 130.



in Excon-land, the majority of grunts are exceptions to the rule.
And this comment was the most funny.
You haven't and can't show that a mos with the lowest AFQT and GT requirements are anything but the norm.
But it is understandable that individuals of a mos comprised of basically the lowest common denominators would be able to point to the smarter amongst them and brag while thinking they are representative of the whole.
 
Thank you for demonstrating why the dumb infantry meme has traction.

:) I knocked out half of a Masters' Degree while serving in the infantry, and I wasn't even the smartest guy in my fire team. If "hur-de-hur dumb grunts" is what MP's with tiny penises have to tell themselves in order to make up for their quiet, unspoken sense of inferiority and resentment, well, I understand your need. :)
 
Let's see if we can get this back on track.

Here is an interesting story that comes to mind every few years. Marine Sergeant Major Henry Hallowell.

Well, that is what he claims at least. Here is a picture of him in 1865 at the end of the Civil War.

18952047_1441660904.jpg


He did indeed serve during the Civil War. But he deserted at least 3 times, spending half of the war as a civilian (other then a short time he spent in a National Guard unit). Sent back every time he was caught, he ended the war as a Corporal and was kicked out.

Then he largely dissapeared from sight. In the early 1900's he pops up in a Veterans Home where he was for a few years. Then his actual service and discharge were discovered, and he was removed from the home in around 1920.. At that point, he starts to make appearances at recruiting stations and small Marine posts up and down the East Coast.

18952047_128759831546.jpg


No longer Corporal, but Sergeant Major. With enough hash marks on his sleeve to show 63 years of service! He claims to have served on active duty from the Civil War all the way through WWI. He did this for about 3 years, getting different Marine stations to put him up for weeks or months until his story was checked out. He was then kicked out and tried it again at another station. He pulled the same trick on Veteran Organizations, schools, anywhere that he could get somebody to pay or put him up in exchange for his "war stories".

Finally the Commandant put out a memo to all Marine stations and detachments, forbidding him to be allowed into any of them. The VFW and American Legion did the same thing. He is believed to have died around 1927, because he had not been seen since.

post-837-1206780417.jpg
 
:) I knocked out half of a Masters' Degree while serving in the infantry, and I wasn't even the smartest guy in my fire team. If "hur-de-hur dumb grunts" is what MP's with tiny penises have to tell themselves in order to make up for their quiet, unspoken sense of inferiority and resentment, well, I understand your need. :)

I too received my masters recently and I was in the infantry. I just reclassed though.

However, I will say though the infantry may not be the most intelligent people in the military, we're certainly the best. Being in the infantry is so much better than being a POG
 
I've always said that when a military man runs across another military man it only takes five minutes of conversation to size each other up. We don't talk the same as other people. We use terms like BASIC, AIT, PCS, ETC, MOS... Most of us still walk 120 steps a minute, 9 to the front and 6 to the rear. We don't do it on purpose, we just do it. We don't carry anything in our right hand and we remove our cover when walking through the threshold. When we start talking to each other we will have had something in common, whether it is a duty assignment, or whatever.

I still feel as though I am doing something "wrong" on the rare occasions I break down and use an umbrella. :)
 
You carry an umbrella? :shock: I still cannot do that.
I still feel as though I am doing something "wrong" on the rare occasions I break down and use an umbrella. :)
 
You carry an umbrella? :shock: I still cannot do that.

It took me a couple years before I broke down and bought one after retiring. After showing up to a couple business meetings in a drenched suit I started keeping one in the car for emergencies. Though I can probably count on one hand how many times I have actually used it. And when I do use it I walk fast, with my head hung in shame.
 
Thank you for demonstrating why the dumb infantry meme has traction.

Sort of like the "unethical lawyer" meme has traction.

Would you argue that most lawyers are dishonest, unscrupulous, and unethical simply because there's a meme that says they are and that an honest, hardworking, and ethical lawyer is the exception to the rule?

Probably not.

A stereotyping meme gets traction because, as you have probably heard, "a few bad apples spoil the bunch".

If you've never served in the Infantry then you have no idea what the Infantry is really like.

I scored a 124 GT back in 1990 and I was about average for my Platoon.

We had a handful of guys who could have been "rocket scientists" (and one who actually went on to earn a MS in electronic engineering and now develops state of the art medical imaging hardware) and a handful of guys who were absolute idiots but for the most part the guys were of above average intelligence and have, in their post-military lives, become chiropractors, financial analysts, MBAs, traveling salesmen, small business owners, nurses, and a bunch of other solidly respectable and upper middle class things.

Another reason that the "dumb Infantry" meme has traction is because the POGs of the world need something to hang their hat on.

The REMFs know that when the Infantrymen walk in to the bar we're going to kick their asses, take their women, and make them feel like the little men they actually are.

So they tell themselves that they're "smarter" because they're dental hygienists, finance clerks, and JAG assistants and at the end of the day, when I've taken your girl and run you and your buddies out of the bar, at least you've got your delusions of intellectual grandeur to hold on to as you cry yourself to sleep while gently biting your pillow.
 
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