Stock Market Plunges Today - Biggest Loss Since Feb.

[Conservative]

Why? It's simple. We are spending more money than we are taking in. The tax cuts will only exacerbate that problem. If the economy is as strong as you say then economic common sense tells you that is when you should be looking to reduce deficits. Not add to them. In the second quarter 2018, the U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio was 104 percent. With a growing deficit that ratio will only increase which means you can probably look forward to seeing even higher interest rates.

So is that the way you operate in real life, you take in less money so you spend more? Why don't you post the Treasury data supporting your claims? For some reason you nanny state liberals always want more money to go to the bureaucrats in D.C. as it makes you feel better not realizing that takes money out of the state and local governments? What percentage of one's income should go to Federal, State, and Local Taxes? Answer???

 

[Atomic Kid]

So is that the way you operate in real life, you take in less money so you spend more? Why don't you post the Treasury data supporting your claims? For some reason you nanny state liberals always want more money to go to the bureaucrats in D.C. as it makes you feel better not realizing that takes money out of the state and local governments? What percentage of one's income should go to Federal, State, and Local Taxes? Answer???

LOL! Oh no. Not my idea. It's the Republicans on the other hand who think the thing do in the midst of an economy that was already running strong is to hand out big tax cuts to the rich and big business thereby cutting future revenue. Brilliant! And that IS treasury data I have posted here, genius!

 

[Conservative]

LOL! Oh no. Not my idea. It's the Republicans on the other hand who think the thing do in the midst of an economy that was already running strong is to hand out big tax cuts to the rich and big business thereby cutting future revenue. Brilliant! And that IS treasury data I have posted here, genius!

so you have a problem with people keeping more of their own money, what a shock! You have posted ZERO Treasury data but you truly are a legend in your own mind. Maybe you don't understand what Treasury data is

 

[Chomsky]

The rise in the dollar's strength will be due to higher interest rates. it is the balance between the two.
depends on how much the dollar goes up.

Agreed.

 

[Atomic Kid]

so you have a problem with people keeping more of their own money, what a shock! You have posted ZERO Treasury data but you truly are a legend in your own mind. Maybe you don't understand what Treasury data is

You obviously have no idea what the data is because every one of those numbers I have trotted out in here are real. If you don't like them, ..well that's too bad. Just put your head back down in the sand again and you'll be fine.

 

[Chomsky]

When equity markets typically selloff, the flow is into fixed incomes and primarily U.S. Treasury securities, thereby lowering yields. What's happening now is very strange, and i would caution anyone making the claim of "typical market correction". Global equity markets and the financial systems that govern them are in deep uncharted territory.

I will admit it is indeed highly unusual for stocks to crash and bonds to concurrently recede. I'm not sure I ever saw this before. Can I say it's an ill omen? I dunno. I don't think so. But it sure is strange! At least the Yield Curve seems to now be becoming more normalized, and that's a good thing.

 

[Chomsky]

In the greater scheme of things this isn't really all that bad when you look at the percentage of the market loss vs the points loss. The percentage of market value today was 2.1%. Which comes to a little more than 5% since Tuesday. That's not like the 3 or 4 7%+ single day losses that came together in a short span of few weeks in 2008. So it would not appear that we are on the cusp of a recession. But it may be a wake up call to investors to perhaps reassess their position in the market given the amount uncertainty there is out there now. But a recession will come. It's not a question of if. It's just a question of when. Then the question becomes then what is the Repubs going to do then? You have already used the jump start of a tax cut. Which has probably if anything overheated the economy. And you have engaged in massive deficit spending. Which means you have used a lot of your bullets and now have not much ammunition left with which to counter a recession.

The only possible bright-spot here, is at least the Fed has been doing some moderate tightening. But when the next one (recession) hits, even the Fed doesn't have much juice since rates are still historically low. But, it's better than nothing.

 

[yankintx]

Bill Maher must be happy. He's been hoping for something like this so Trump will get blamed.

WTF does Maher have to do with this thread ? Maher is a liberal for the most part, why would he want the Obama recovery to fail ?

 

[Conservative]

You obviously have no idea what the data is because every one of those numbers I have trotted out in here are real. If you don't like them, ..well that's too bad. Just put your head back down in the sand again and you'll be fine.

Every bit of so called data you posted is opinions not data in context. the one who has their head buried up the ass of the leftwing radicals is you. I asked for the official Treasury data and you and others post pretty charts that either are opinions or not in context. Treasury is the only source for official data and Treasury is the source on which actual taxpayers pay debt service. Now either post Treasury data or admit you are wrong

 

[Conservative]

WTF does Maher have to do with this thread ? Maher is a liberal for the most part, why would he want the Obama recovery to fail ?

I think is it awesome how great the Obama economy is since he left office, just think how good it would have been had he left years earlier since obviously this economy is a gift to him for leaving office

 

[Media_Truth]

LOL! Oh no. Not my idea. It's the Republicans on the other hand who think the thing do in the midst of an economy that was already running strong is to hand out big tax cuts to the rich and big business thereby cutting future revenue. Brilliant! And that IS treasury data I have posted here, genius!

Agreed! We will probably see a lot more stock market crashes once the analysts start looking more closely at this skyrocketing deficit.

 

[ludin]

I will admit it is indeed highly unusual for stocks to crash and bonds to concurrently recede. I'm not sure I ever saw this before. Can I say it's an ill omen? I dunno. I don't think so. But it sure is strange! At least the Yield Curve seems to now be becoming more normalized, and that's a good thing.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/11/us-bonds-and-fixed-income-global-equity-markets-in-turmoil.html

this would explain it.

There were multiple reports issued at the same time that had different effects on the market.
The headline consumer price index came in at 0.1 percent, short of the 0.2 percent anticipated and following August's 0.2 percent gain.

the expectation is that would be a higher rate of inflation than what their was.
So inflation fears were eased a bit and that caused them to pull back slightly.

If the fed raises the rates again which it looks like it could you will see further hikes in yields and you will see another sell off.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I will admit it is indeed highly unusual for stocks to crash and bonds to concurrently recede. I'm not sure I ever saw this before. Can I say it's an ill omen? I dunno. I don't think so. But it sure is strange! At least the Yield Curve seems to now be becoming more normalized, and that's a good thing.

Yes, unusual. A quick review of long term charts reflects receding stocks and bonds simultaneously during 1954, 1972 and 1985/86. The three moments for vastly different reasons yet keyed by real property activity levels.

1954, we see domestic and international halting of residential real property action because of lack of inventory. The return of the WWII soldier and the delayed family has stripped the marketplace of available units, a problem of relatively short duration answered by the development of tract housing and massive planned residential development. Simultaneously, especially in the US, the downsizing of industrial capacity from wartime needs to consumer matures and new construction is minimized.

By 1972 residential markets are balanced, and low end manufacturing in the US is being abandoned. For the first time the lack of new residential construction is selling spilling over into related whiteware, basic appliances, furnishings, decorating markets with forced reflection on energy usage hitting the automotive market, steel, and other commodities. Non repurposed massive amounts of industrial properties are abandoned in inner cities and the rust belt as the shift to a service economy creates both different labor and real property needs. Simultaneously, a shift from our river and seafront transportation hubs to air cargo, trucking, rail, and container shipping is almost complete with another massive labor reduction.

1986 sees the results of financial deregulations, energy issues, inflation, redistribution of labor again, inane political interference in financial markets, and greater distribution of international mini wars throughout the third world, parts of Europe. The need to absorb the fall of communists great states, real and anticipated. The massive move from bond financing toward greater capitalization via expanded equities, leaves bond yields as a less relevant factor for economic indicator. The failures of junk bond issues is part and partial to these trends.

 

[Khayembii Communique]

Trump got new concessions from Canada that benefit US Dairy Farmers. The new agreement also prevents Canada from establishng new trade agreements without first informing the US.

1. The dairy concessions amount to $70 million of the Canadian market.
2. The second sentence is useless.

Increase in consumption only leads to trade deficit if you're no longer producing the consumed items

In an import focused economy that is already at capacity, where do you think the new production is going to come from?

and have exported those jobs overseas. You don't seem to care about jobs and employment. Regular people do.

Tariffs destroy jobs. They increase prices from tariff taxes that are passed through and decrease income in companies for portions that can't be passed through. This is a very simple and obvious fact that anyone that knows anything about economics knows. You don't seem to care about jobs and employment. Sane people do.

Tariffs do provide a level playing field for US goods and workers, albeit at the cost of higher prices.

No, they don't.

The real benefit is in using the threat of them to compel others to lower their tariffs to US goods, so that American workers can have that level playing field without hiking prices for consumers.

We already addressed why this is wrong earlier in the thread.

 

[sanman]

What a ridiculous set of replies!

1. The dairy concessions amount to $70 million of the Canadian market.
2. The second sentence is useless.

Wrong - Canada's dairy industry is $billion+ industry over there - they wouldn't have put up such a fight over it, if it was just $70M.

There are other benefits from USMCA:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45674261

"The two most eye-catching changes to the deal could benefit car-manufacturing workers from all three countries and help spur investment in the North American industry.The first provision requires that 75% - up from 62.5% - of the parts that go into a vehicle be made in the region to qualify for tariff-free treatment, a move intended to boost production in North America. The second requires 40-45% of a vehicle be made by workers earning at least $16 an hour - a measure aimed at discouraging firms from shifting work to lower-wage Mexico. (In the US, the average hourly pay for auto manufacturing workers was more than $22 as of June.) The provisions are directed toward blue-collar workers in US manufacturing states, who share Mr Trump's critique of the deal."

"The new agreement raises duty-free shopping limits to $100 to enter Mexico and C$150 ($115) to enter Canada without facing import duties - well above the $50 previously allowed in Mexico and C$20 permitted by Canada. That's good news for online shoppers in Mexico and Canada - as well as shipping firms and e-commerce companies, especially giants like Amazon."

"Pharmaceutical companies won 10 years of protection for patents on certain types of treatments known as biologics, as well as an expanded scope of products eligible for protection."

"Arguments may rage on how much this is merely Nafta repackaged, but it's hard to see this as anything but a partial victory for President Donald Trump."

In an import focused economy that is already at capacity, where do you think the new production is going to come from?

At capacity?? In what sense? There are still unemployed Americans! There are still young people coming into the job market!

You're like "dang - ain't enough unemployed Americans around anymore! muh community is endangered! this sucks!" :roll:

Tariffs destroy jobs. They increase prices from tariff taxes that are passed through and decrease income in companies for portions that can't be passed through. This is a very simple and obvious fact that anyone that knows anything about economics knows. You don't seem to care about jobs and employment. Sane people do.

For ****'s sakes - other countries have tariffs! That's what Trump's fighting against! He's fighting to have them remove their tariffs! Then he'll drop his tariffs!

It's like saying "I hate nukes, they're a threat to the Earth, I wish we'd get rid of our nukes - but let's not worry about whether other countries have nukes" :roll:

CRAZY.

 

[Roadvirus]

WTF does Maher have to do with this thread ? Maher is a liberal for the most part, why would he want the Obama recovery to fail ?

Bill Maher went on record some months ago, saying he hoped the economy would tank just so it'd make Trump look bad.