Still Supporting Maduro: China, Iran, Russia, Cuba, etc., the Democratic Socialists, several DEMS

[Grokmaster]

Not surprisingly, the world's authoritarian regimes , such as Cuba, China, Russia, Iran etal, have voiced their support for FELLOW DESPOT, Nicolas Maduro, and oppose the declared presidency of the President of the Venezuelan National Assembly , Juan Guaido .

Add to their ranks the DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PARTY, and SEVERAL (so far) DEMOCRATS, Rep. Ilham Omar (D-MN), Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA), so far.
Bernie Sanders is trying to sit on the fence complaining about Maduro (after his widely known open support for Maduro's mentor and predecessor, Hugo Chavez who started the downward spiral of Venezuela) while seemingly opposing the ouster of Maduro.

This is the statement of the Democrat Socialist Party, of which Sanders, Omar , Tlaib, etal are members:



"We call upon the US government to immediately cease and desist all attempts to intervene in the internal politics of Venezuela and break with its shameful legacy of imperial control in the region," the organization wrote. "Further, we call upon DSA chapters and DSA-supported political representatives to mobilize in this particularly critical moment around a campaign of solidarity with the Venezuelan people, aimed specifically at reversing the US government’s disastrous and counterproductive sanctions against Venezuela."


It appears that the DSA is having trouble coming to grips with its longtime support of the socialist takeover of Venezuela...which has FAILED MISERABLY.


Hopefully, beneficial change there will be achieved without further violence.

Internationally, support for Maduro is almost exclusively amongst the world's authoritarian regimes.

 

[Mycroft]

China and Russia and Cuba have no choice. They've invested too much money in Chavez/Maduro to cut them loose.

 

[Grokmaster]

China and Russia and Cuba have no choice. They've invested too much money in Chavez/Maduro to cut them loose.

Well, then I'm glad to report: they are LOSING THEIR ASSES on THAT INVESTMENT.


What IDIOTS would invest in the ECONOMIC SUCCESS OF A SOCIALIST REGIME..?

 

[OrphanSlug]

China and Russia and Cuba have no choice. They've invested too much money in Chavez/Maduro to cut them loose.

Agreed, exactly what I was thinking.

It should not surprise anyone that just about every nation on this side of the pond wants a change for Venezuela that everyone around Russia, China, etc. does not want to see happen.

 

[Grokmaster]

Agreed, exactly what I was thinking.

It should not surprise anyone that just about every nation on this side of the pond wants a change for Venezuela that everyone around Russia, China, etc. does not want to see happen.

The Democratic Socialists, and the Dems I cited, (and possible more) disagree.

 

[Mycroft]

Well, then I'm glad to report: they are LOSING THEIR ASSES on THAT INVESTMENT.


What IDIOTS would invest in the ECONOMIC SUCCESS OF A SOCIALIST REGIME..?


View attachment 67248925

It's true. They are losing money in this. And they'll lose even more if Trump starts applying further economic sanctions against Venezuela.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

The Democratic Socialists, and the Dems I cited, (and possible more) disagree.

Being against the US constantly interfering in foreign political matters is not the same as supporting the dictator in question. Opposing the Iraq war was not pro-Saddam, nor is opposing a war with North Korea pro-Kim or opposing the Vietnam war pro-Ho Chi Minh. You're intentionally trying to push a false narrative you created. Not one single Democrat, Republican, or any other US politician supports Maduro and you can not show one single quote of someone supporting him.

 

[Fenton]

Not surprisingly, the world's authoritarian regimes , such as Cuba, China, Russia, Iran etal, have voiced their support for FELLOW DESPOT, Nicolas Maduro, and oppose the declared presidency of the President of the Venezuelan National Assembly , Juan Guaido .

Add to their ranks the DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PARTY, and SEVERAL (so far) DEMOCRATS, Rep. Ilham Omar (D-MN), Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA), so far.
Bernie Sanders is trying to sit on the fence complaining about Maduro (after his widely known open support for Maduro's mentor and predecessor, Hugo Chavez who started the downward spiral of Venezuela) while seemingly opposing the ouster of Maduro.

This is the statement of the Democrat Socialist Party, of which Sanders, Omar , Tlaib, etal are members:



"We call upon the US government to immediately cease and desist all attempts to intervene in the internal politics of Venezuela and break with its shameful legacy of imperial control in the region," the organization wrote. "Further, we call upon DSA chapters and DSA-supported political representatives to mobilize in this particularly critical moment around a campaign of solidarity with the Venezuelan people, aimed specifically at reversing the US government’s disastrous and counterproductive sanctions against Venezuela."


It appears that the DSA is having trouble coming to grips with its longtime support of the socialist takeover of Venezuela...which has FAILED MISERABLY.


Hopefully, beneficial change there will be achieved without further violence.

Internationally, support for Maduro is almost exclusively amongst the world's authoritarian regimes.




View attachment 67248922

Obama 2013....
" I now call on the Egyptian military to move quickly and responsibly to return full authority back to a democratically elected civilian government as soon as possible through an inclusive and transparent process, and to avoid any arbitrary arrests of President Morsi and his supporters,"

 

[Grokmaster]

It's true. They are losing money in this. And they'll lose even more if Trump starts applying further economic sanctions against Venezuela.

Works for me. Guaido is easily the closest thing to a democratically elected representative of the Venezuelan people.

Why the Democratic Socialists of America. and the democrats in Congress I cited, do not support his move, is a mystery.


I'd to see ownership of ALL NATIONALIZED PRIVATE INDUSTRIES handed back to their rightful owners, as well, especially those that the Chinese, Russians, and Cubans think they get to pirate.

 

[Grokmaster]

Obama 2013....
" I now call on the Egyptian military to move quickly and responsibly to return full authority back to a democratically elected civilian government as soon as possible through an inclusive and transparent process, and to avoid any arbitrary arrests of President Morsi and his supporters,"

And then handed Egypt over to the muslim brotherhood, who then had to be VIOLENTLY EVICTED, but only after the Obamidiot handed them $1.5 billion.

 

[Mycroft]

Being against the US constantly interfering in foreign political matters is not the same as supporting the dictator in question. Opposing the Iraq war was not pro-Saddam, nor is opposing a war with North Korea pro-Kim or opposing the Vietnam war pro-Ho Chi Minh. You're intentionally trying to push a false narrative you created. Not one single Democrat, Republican, or any other US politician supports Maduro and you can not show one single quote of someone supporting him.

At least one Democrat, though she likely agrees with everything Maduro has done, is still trying to figure out whether she supports him or not.

Hi @AOC,
Your comments on the state of democratic socialism in #Venezuela?
— Brandon Morse (@TheBrandonMorse) January 23, 2019


Hey @AOC I would like to pay for an all expense paid fact finding mission for you to go to Venezuela
They don’t have much food, toilet paper, running water, but your politics will fit right in there!
I am sure Maduro would welcome you and your Marxism with open arms
— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) January 24, 2019


Will you be traveling to Venezuela to show them how to get socialist done right??? It’s not looking so good..
— USMC Devildog (@USMCRoughnecks) January 24, 2019


You show me how socialism works and I'll show you how it doesn't.
The reason AOC won't answer questions on how she plans to make it work is because she knows it doesn't
They will never tax the rich, the rich vote Democrat.
She will turn America into Venezuela.
— HellaCoolMoms (@rhondaprell) January 24, 2019

AOC should have kept her mouth shut. Instead she responded with this:

“Our office is monitoring it closely. I think that, you know, the humanitarian crisis is extremely concerning but, you know, when we use non-Democratic means to determine leadership, that’s also concerning, as well,” Ocasio-Cortez told the DCNF. “So, we’re figuring out our response and making sure that we center the people of Venezuela first and foremost.”

https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/24/ocasio-cortez-venezuela-maduro-trump/

Meanwhile, the people of Venezuela are eating scraps out of garbage cans thanks to Maduro.

 

[Grokmaster]

At least one Democrat, though she likely agrees with everything Maduro has done, is still trying to figure out whether she supports him or not.



AOC should have kept her mouth shut. Instead she responded with this:

Another DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST member. They are in shock and dismay over their Flagship, Socialist Venezuela's RAPID COLLAPSE, under many of the same policies they support and call for here....

 

[rocket88]

Obama 2013....
" I now call on the Egyptian military to move quickly and responsibly to return full authority back to a democratically elected civilian government as soon as possible through an inclusive and transparent process, and to avoid any arbitrary arrests of President Morsi and his supporters,"

How evil of him to support Democracy in Egypt.

 

[Grokmaster]

How evil of him to support Democracy in Egypt.

Yeah...the MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD WAS KNOWN FOR "FAIR,, DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS"...which is why the Egyptian people had to OVERTHROW THEIR DESPOTIC ASSES after Obama handed them the country ..and $1.5 billion.

Ever wonder why the OBAMIDIOT NEVER VISITS EGYPT?


Duh….

 

[Jetboogieman]

For China and Russia, they've sunk Billions in loans to Maduros government, it's about money.

Cuba is probably a combination between money, drug smuggling routes and a sprinkle of ideological ties.

Bolivia is an interesting one as Morales is turning himself into a dictator of Bolivia and probably fears a similar thing happening to him at some point in the future.

 

[Grokmaster]

For China and Russia, they've sunk Billions in loans to Maduros government, it's about money.

Cuba is probably a combination between money, drug smuggling routes and a sprinkle of ideological ties.

Bolivia is an interesting one as Morales is turning himself into a dictator of Bolivia and probably fears a similar thing happening to him at some point in the future.

I understand that birds of a feather, etc.

Which INCLUDES the DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PARTY, and SEVERAL ELECTED DEMOCRATS.

 

[Fenton]

How evil of him to support Democracy in Egypt.

The Muslim Brotherhood blamed the US for Morsi's ouster.

This according to one of Morsi's top aide's pretty much exposed the MB for what they always were. A radical Islamic group who always intended to install a Islamic theocracy under the pretense of Democracy.

" America was not happy about the establishment of a regime that adopts the Islamic civilization project for the state at the expense of the secular Western model,"

https://freebeacon.com/issues/musli...for-egyptian-president-mohamed-morsis-ouster/

 

[Grokmaster]

The Muslim Brotherhood blamed the US for Morsi's ouster.

This according to one of Morsi's top aide's pretty much exposed the MB for what they always were. A radical Islamic group who always intended to install a Islamic theocracy under the pretense of Democracy.

" America was not happy about the establishment of a regime that adopts the Islamic civilization project for the state at the expense of the secular Western model,"

https://freebeacon.com/issues/musli...for-egyptian-president-mohamed-morsis-ouster/

Except that it was the EGYPTIAN PEOPLE who through their terrorist asses out.

OBAMA PUT THEM IN POWER , and , together w/ then Sec.of State, Hillary, saw to it that they got $1.5 BILLION , OVER THE EXPRESSED WISHES OF CONGRESS, before their terrorist asses could be deposed.

 

[Fenton]

For China and Russia, they've sunk Billions in loans to Maduros government, it's about money.

Cuba is probably a combination between money, drug smuggling routes and a sprinkle of ideological ties.

Bolivia is an interesting one as Morales is turning himself into a dictator of Bolivia and probably fears a similar thing happening to him at some point in the future.

A fool and their money..... The Venezuelan Govt ran every industry they Nationalized into the ground including it's manufacturing sector. This forced Venezuela to become dependent on imports for basic goods and supplies

When the price of oil fell, the Venezuelan Govt started printing money to make up for lost oil revenues.

They figured since the face value of the Bolivar was higher than the cost to print new Bolivars, they could make a small profit off of each newly minted note.

It's called "Seignorage ", and no Govt is stupid enough to try it on any substative scale, exept Venezuela. They started printing away.

Eventually the Bolivar became worthless, and since importers don't want to be paid with worthless Bolivars, importers stopped doing business with the Venezuelan Govt. Crippling shortages of basic goods and supplies and medicine soon followed

The Country is such a **** show and even with a new President it may take years to get things back to normal.

 

[Fenton]

Except that it was the EGYPTIAN PEOPLE who through their terrorist asses out.

OBAMA PUT THEM IN POWER , and , together w/ then Sec.of State, Hillary, saw to it that they got $1.5 BILLION , OVER THE EXPRESSED WISHES OF CONGRESS, before their terrorist asses could be deposed.

I know. I just wanted to mess with him a bit. Obama's entire ME policy was based around removing existing secular Govts so Islamic theocracies could take their place
That and turning a blind eye to ISIS led to the destabilization of the entire region and parts of North Africa.

 

[Grokmaster]

I know. I just wanted to mess with him a bit. Obama's entire ME policy was based around removing existing secular Govts so Islamic theocracies could take their place
That and turning a blind eye to ISIS led to the destabilization of the entire region and parts of North Africa.

In addition to handing "The JV" Libya's considerable military arsenal.

 

[Jetboogieman]

A fool and their money..... The Venezuelan Govt ran every industry they Nationalized into the ground including it's manufacturing sector. This forced Venezuela to become dependent on imports for basic goods and supplies

When the price of oil fell, the Venezuelan Govt started printing money to make up for lost oil revenues.

They figured since the face value of the Bolivar was higher than the cost to print new Bolivars, they could make a small profit off of each newly minted note.

It's called "Seignorage ", and no Govt is stupid enough to try it on any substative scale, exept Venezuela. They started printing away.

Eventually the Bolivar became worthless, and since importers don't want to be paid with worthless Bolivars, importers stopped doing business with the Venezuelan Govt. Crippling shortages of basic goods and supplies and medicine soon followed

The Country is such a **** show and even with a new President it may take years to get things back to normal.

The Bolivar also suffered from something that took me awhile to understand, I literally couldn't wrap my head around how idiotic this was:

https://www.ft.com/content/25055a2a-6332-11e7-91a7-502f7ee26895

Venezuela’s currency control system, in place since 2003, has been plagued by fraud. Essentially, the scam works like this. Insiders with access to preferential dollars can arbitrage the strongest exchange rate of 10 bolívars to the dollar, and the black market rate, currently Bs8,000, to make huge profits. Miguel Rodríguez, Mr Maduro’s former interior minister but now a fierce critic, has called the system “a source of unlimited corruption”.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Not surprisingly, the world's authoritarian regimes , such as Cuba, China, Russia, Iran etal, have voiced their support for FELLOW DESPOT, Nicolas Maduro, and oppose the declared presidency of the President of the Venezuelan National Assembly , Juan Guaido .

Add to their ranks the DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PARTY, and SEVERAL (so far) DEMOCRATS, Rep. Ilham Omar (D-MN), Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA), so far.
Bernie Sanders is trying to sit on the fence complaining about Maduro (after his widely known open support for Maduro's mentor and predecessor, Hugo Chavez who started the downward spiral of Venezuela) while seemingly opposing the ouster of Maduro.

This is the statement of the Democrat Socialist Party, of which Sanders, Omar , Tlaib, etal are members:



"We call upon the US government to immediately cease and desist all attempts to intervene in the internal politics of Venezuela and break with its shameful legacy of imperial control in the region," the organization wrote. "Further, we call upon DSA chapters and DSA-supported political representatives to mobilize in this particularly critical moment around a campaign of solidarity with the Venezuelan people, aimed specifically at reversing the US government’s disastrous and counterproductive sanctions against Venezuela."


It appears that the DSA is having trouble coming to grips with its longtime support of the socialist takeover of Venezuela...which has FAILED MISERABLY.


Hopefully, beneficial change there will be achieved without further violence.

Internationally, support for Maduro is almost exclusively amongst the world's authoritarian regimes.




View attachment 67248922

After reading many of your posts, I didn’t think we’d ever see eye to eye, but on this one were are agreed. Fork Maduro. :cheers:

 

[Fenton]

;

The Bolivar also suffered from something that took me awhile to understand, I literally couldn't wrap my head around how idiotic this was:

https://www.ft.com/content/25055a2a-6332-11e7-91a7-502f7ee26895

Just looked it up and Wow ! Corrupt ****ers !

So Venezuelan politicans and the well connected set up shell companies posing as importers wanting to do business with Venezuela

This allowed them to tap into the Venezuelan currency exchange and buy heavily subsidized dollars at an exchange rate of 12 Bolivars for one US dollar.

They would then sell the dollars on the open market at a exchange rate of 172 Bolivars per dollar earning a 14-1 profit. Venezuelan politicans and their buddies were essentially looting the Venezuelan Treasury

And this was happening while the Venezuelan people were struggling to survive.

 

[jnug]

I for one do not support our never ending efforts at regime change. That said, I am very concerned about Russia making inroads in Venezuela.

I would actually be OK with the US standing up for the Venezuelan people and their frustration with Madura. However, I just do not see us competently making our way in Venezuela under the leadership of Donald Trump and his merry band of idiots. Lets look at the situation on the ground in Venezuela:
- The US, immediately recognized Guaido (dead giveaway that we were on the ground in Venezuela working that ole' US regime change magic)
- However who the heck in US Intelligence missed the fact that Maduro still had and has the support of the military?
- What else have we miscalculated about the situation on the ground in Venezuela even while being there at least covertly supporting Guaido?

Unless you are prepared to invade, if the regime you oppose still has control of the military, you are going nowhere in a hurry. Maduro still has control of the Military, still has control of the government. He still has control of taxation and can arrest anybody he darned well pleases. Seems to me that at the very least, coming out to recognize Guaido as early as we did was a blunder. What else is new. Welcome to Trumpian geopolitics. We can't even seem to get it right in our own backyard.

Maduro is well within his rights to tell US diplomats to leave as he still has control of the government no matter who we decide to recognize. We have surely set up the false narrative that our diplomats are at risk if we do not go in. But how is rescuing our diplomats even if they are at risk and even if we decide to do that justification for doing more than that?

The mistake appears to be in having recognized Guaido as early as we have without accurately judging the situation on the ground in Venezuela. Seems to me we had ample time to prepare the ground for deposing Maduro at the right moment and just flat blew it. Now if we go in militarily, we will be going in with our pants down around our ankles and our butts hung out in the breeze. Looks more like the usual Trumpian incompetence to me.

So now we have already shot off our "big gun", recognizing Guaido and what do we have to show for it?

Pompeo is blathering uselessly at the UN: "Now its time for all nations to choose sides blah...blah...blah". Why is that Mike, because your boss tripped over his yoo-yoo on the way to the microphone and blurted out recognition for Guaido prematurely? What the frigg are we doing down there?

Either we:
- had no earthly idea what the situation on the ground was in Venezuela because we were not engaged covertly in any way though now we are trying to act like we had a clue.

If not that, we:
- actually were engaged on the ground covertly (as I suggested in the first paragraph) and are simply so numbingly hopeless and incompetent under Donald Trump that we have completely frigged it up!

I actually am more concerned that it is the latter and not the former though just barely!

Whats next? We think we are going to force free elections on Venezuela at this point do we? With what, our good looks. We are not prepared to go into Venezuela militarily and since we did not play our cards right, Maduro has the military, not the guy we have recognized and the Russians are now protecting Moduro just in case the Military flips on him. None of those countries that have made noise about backing us up in the UN are going to do anything.

So whats next Donald you genius. Going to trip over your yoo-yoo a few more times are you?