Stephen Moore: Biden’s $1.9 trillion ‘rescue plan’ could destroy 4 million jobs — here’s a better idea

[Jezcoe]

Mainstream economic theory is pretty clear about the role of fiscal policy. In general, when the economy is weak or in recession, the economy needs fiscal support. When the economy is strong, fiscal restraint is appropriate. There will be a time for fiscal consolidation (tax hikes and/or spending restraint), but that won't be until the economy returns to sustainable growth.

At present, the U.S. economy has shown signs of marked deterioration in recent weeks. The just released advance retail sales report showed a 0.7% decline for December and a revised (downward) 1.4% decline in November. Had follow-up aggressive fiscal stimulus been adopted during the late spring and had that fiscal stimulus included relief for state and local governments (major employers of school teachers, police officers, fire fighters, first responders, etc.), the economy would almost certainly be in better shape than it currently is.

At the same time, had there been a coherent and competent federal strategy for limiting the spread of COVID-19 including widespread adherence to risk mitigation measures such as use of face masks, the pandemic would almost certainly be far less worse than it currently is. Recent peer-reviewed literature explains:

The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high.

More Americans are now dying from COVID-19 each day than were killed during the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The resurgence of COVID-19 that has resulted from a catastrophic leadership failure at the federal level is leading to renewed restrictions that are further suppressing economic growth.

President-elect Biden will need to turn around the absence of a credible COVID-19 strategy. Yesterday's national address was a good start in that direction.

What we got from the Trump response was the worst of both worlds, a tanking economy and a bunch of dead people.

Why do people vote for the GOP?

 

[The AntiDonald]

The DJIA hit the pre-financial-crisis record high close on about October 8, 2007: about 14,093.08.

Under the "enlightened" guidance and the programs of the Obama-Biden team, we finally got back there more than five years later on February 19,2013.

The pre-Covid DJIA high of 29,102 was posted February 10, 2020. November 23, 2020 was the date we got back there. This in spite of the orchestrated sabotage from the Democrat-Socialist Governors around the country.

The media parrots the propaganda from the Democrat-Socialists that Trump is the worst President of all time. Under Trump, the return to an all time high DJIA seems to have happened quicker.

9 months employing the Trump policies as opposed to 64 months under the oppressive constrictions applied by Obama/Biden team. Seems like Trump's way works better.

Is anyone waking up yet?

Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI) Charts, Data & News - Yahoo Finance

Find the latest information on Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI) including data, charts, related news and more from Yahoo Finance

finance.yahoo.com

The majority of folks in this country have nothing to do with the DJIA. It's totally detached from main street reality. My neighbor is on the verge of loosing his home. Does the DJIA give a sh**? Hell no. Just a bunch of rich people playing monopoly.

 

[MTAtech]

The DJIA hit the pre-financial-crisis record high close on about October 8, 2007: about 14,093.08.

Under the "enlightened" guidance and the programs of the Obama-Biden team, we finally got back there more than five years later on February 19,2013.

The pre-Covid DJIA high of 29,102 was posted February 10, 2020. November 23, 2020 was the date we got back there. This in spite of the orchestrated sabotage from the Democrat-Socialist Governors around the country.

The media parrots the propaganda from the Democrat-Socialists that Trump is the worst President of all time. Under Trump, the return to an all time high DJIA seems to have happened quicker.

9 months employing the Trump policies as opposed to 64 months under the oppressive constrictions applied by Obama/Biden team. Seems like Trump's way works better.

Is anyone waking up yet?

Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI) Charts, Data & News - Yahoo Finance

Find the latest information on Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI) including data, charts, related news and more from Yahoo Finance

finance.yahoo.com

You leave out quite a bit.
What you must have forgotten about was that the DJIA had lost all it's gains over the previous four years in March 2020. Then, the federal government enacted a multi-trillion dollar relief package and the DJIA recovered. That fact undercuts your entire narrative about "Democrat-Socialists." Those Dem-Socialists that passed that relief saved the stock market it would seem.

 

[code1211]

Why in the world is this the barometer for economic health?

It's only one measure.

The DJIA is an ongoing poll of folks who vote with their money on what is happening in the real world.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

It's only one measure.

The DJIA is an ongoing poll of folks who vote with their money on what is happening in the real world.

If that were true Trump would still be potus and the GOP would still control the senate. So even on this argument you’ve failed by your own definitions.

Hilarious.

 

[code1211]

wow, random numbers and random dates that completely ignore the Bush Mortgage Bubble and Great Bush Recession. and in "random double spaced" format no less. anyhoo, check out this "propaganda from the Democrat-Socialists"


History Shows Stocks, GDP Outperform Under Democrats | Fox Business


dang those media parrots.

As always, your inability to understand actual real world data is noted.

 

[code1211]

The majority of folks in this country have nothing to do with the DJIA. It's totally detached from main street reality. My neighbor is on the verge of loosing his home. Does the DJIA give a sh**? Hell no. Just a bunch of rich people playing monopoly.

Before the Democrat-Socialist policies to shut down the economy for political gain, 56% of the American Public was invested in the Stock markets.

 

[code1211]

You leave out quite a bit.
What you must have forgotten about was that the DJIA had lost all it's gains over the previous four years in March 2020. Then, the federal government enacted a multi-trillion dollar relief package and the DJIA recovered. That fact undercuts your entire narrative about "Democrat-Socialists." Those Dem-Socialists that passed that relief saved the stock market it would seem.

Were the Democrat-Socialists in control of the House, the Senate and the White House when the Trump policies to recover from the recession were implemented?

Were the Democrat-Socialists in control of the House, the Senate and the White House when the Obama policies to recover from the recession were implemented?

Answers to those questions reveal the answer to your question.

In passing, though, the DJIA Daily close never dipped below the daily close on the day of the election when the Trump rally started.

If Biden can exercise some leadership and get the balance of the $2000 Trump checks sent out, that should help again. Would have helped people needing it in September.

What would help more is just opening up the country while some businesses are still left.

 

[Vern]

As always, your inability to understand actual real world data is noted.

oh Code, I understood your random numbers and random dates. You have a narrative you want to believe. I simply posted an article from fox that shows the economy and market do better under democrats. You cant address that so you have to whine about me. the good news is your conservative masters will let you complain about deficits again in a couple of days.

 

[Vern]

Great start, a smear job followed by no comments on the subject, got it.

Hey clicker, where'd you go. I guess you figured out you based your thread on a lying editorial. I know it seems like a good idea to cut and run from your own thread because so many conservatives do that. But wouldnt a better idea be to admit it was lying?

 

[noonereal]

Stephen Moore says this? The guy who had to withdraw his nomination to the Fed for being a raging sexist and having horrendous and dangerous economic policy ideas?

yep, that's him!

 

[Greenbeard]

Liberal pols seem to come up with these grandiose schemes to placate their fringes then mediate them later or abandon them altogether and blame the Republicans.

" The Biden plan is almost a replay — except with more than twice the price tag — of the strategy that President Barack Obama and then-Vice President Biden employed in 2009 with their $900 billion "stimulus" bill. Even by Obama’s own numbers, that bill led to hundreds of thousands of fewer jobs than if we had done nothing."

Stephen Moore: Biden’s $1.9 trillion ‘rescue plan’ could destroy 4 million jobs — here’s a better idea | Fox News

Good of him to notice each incoming Dem administration has to repair the destroyed economy the outgoing GOP administration leaves in its wake. Last time Obama-Biden generated the longest economic expansion in history. Let's see what Biden-Harris can do this time.

 

[code1211]

If that were true Trump would still be potus and the GOP would still control the senate. So even on this argument you’ve failed by your own definitions.

Hilarious.

Um... Buying stocks doesn't impact the popular vote.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Were the Democrat-Socialists in control of the House, the Senate and the White House when the Trump policies to recover from the recession were implemented?

Were the Democrat-Socialists in control of the House, the Senate and the White House when the Obama policies to recover from the recession were implemented?

Answers to those questions reveal the answer to your question.

In passing, though, the DJIA Daily close never dipped below the daily close on the day of the election when the Trump rally started.

If Biden can exercise some leadership and get the balance of the $2000 Trump checks sent out, that should help again. Would have helped people needing it in September.

What would help more is just opening up the country while some businesses are still left.

We had already done that. There was no recession when Trump took office.

Silly economic indicator. Meaningless, which is of course why a Trump voter would use it.

If Trump hadn’t ****ed up the response to covid so badly, those businesses would be open.

 

[code1211]

oh Code, I understood your random numbers and random dates. You have a narrative you want to believe. I simply posted an article from fox that shows the economy and market do better under democrats. You cant address that so you have to whine about me. the good news is your conservative masters will let you complain about deficits again in a couple of days.

I wasn't talking about Republicans and Democrats.

I was comparing the real world outcomes between Obama policies and Trump policies.

Would you like to post information about the 1930's Yankees or some other bits of information unrelated to my post?

 

[CaughtInThe]

Thank God Stephen Miller will soon be gone.

He should be drawn and quartered politically (NOT physically).

 

[ttwtt78640]

Liberal pols seem to come up with these grandiose schemes to placate their fringes then mediate them later or abandon them altogether and blame the Republicans.

" The Biden plan is almost a replay — except with more than twice the price tag — of the strategy that President Barack Obama and then-Vice President Biden employed in 2009 with their $900 billion "stimulus" bill. Even by Obama’s own numbers, that bill led to hundreds of thousands of fewer jobs than if we had done nothing."

Stephen Moore: Biden’s $1.9 trillion ‘rescue plan’ could destroy 4 million jobs — here’s a better idea | Fox News

Moore’s (FICA tax holiday) plan would be some help for those still working, but a closed (or struggling) business is not suddenly going to start hiring because of some (temporary) reduction in payroll taxes. If that were the case then reinstating the FICA payroll taxes would then be a ‘job killing’ program.

 

[towanda]

Do Trump fans really not remember how the Obama/Biden administration fixed the economy after the Bush financial crisis?

Yeah, Cash for Clunkers was stellar.

 

[code1211]

Good of him to notice each incoming Dem administration has to repair the destroyed economy the outgoing GOP administration leaves in its wake. Last time Obama-Biden generated the longest economic expansion in history. Let's see what Biden-Harris can do this time.

This might help you.

COVID-19 pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Greenbeard]

This might help you.

COVID-19 pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, we've never seen an American leader fail so entirely and so catastrophically as Trump did with respect to COVID. Good point.

 

[code1211]

We had already done that. There was no recession when Trump took office.

Silly economic indicator. Meaningless, which is of course why a Trump voter would use it.

If Trump hadn’t ****ed up the response to covid so badly, those businesses would be open.

Your view of the world does not depend on reality.

The recession Trump needed to address was the one that followed the release of the Coronavirus by China. No mention whatever of a date. The words I post and the understandings you create independently are, once again, unrelated.

The Stock Market is a forward looking indicator. Seems to be a pretty accurate one. the 1929 Stack market Crash predicted The Great Depression. Stock market predictions are usually pretty good.

Right now, stocks sold for companies marketing Electric Vehicles are pretty hot. Soon, they will dominate the roads. I'm guessing that by the end of this century, Gas powered cars will be rare.

Trump followed the law. What do you suggest he should have done? The Constitution forbids invasion of states by the Feds.

One course of action will help with this and that is to follow the science and use the science. Trump suggested actions and created programs to do both.

The Democrat-Socialists were fear mongering for political gain throughout this whole mess and their weak minded, easily deceived followers were their gleefully miserable victims and followers.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Your view of the world does not depend on reality.

The recession Trump needed to address was the one that followed the release of the Coronavirus by China. No mention whatever of a date. The words I post and the understandings you create independently are, once again, unrelated.

The Stock Market is a forward looking indicator. Seems to be a pretty accurate one. the 1929 Stack market Crash predicted The Great Depression. Stock market predictions are usually pretty good.

Right now, stocks sold for companies marketing Electric Vehicles are pretty hot. Soon, they will dominate the roads. I'm guessing that by the end of this century, Gas powered cars will be rare.

Trump followed the law. What do you suggest he should have done? The Constitution forbids invasion of states by the Feds.

One course of action will help with this and that is to follow the science and use the science. Trump suggested actions and created programs to do both.

The Democrat-Socialists were fear mongering for political gain throughout this whole mess and their weak minded, easily deceived followers were their gleefully miserable victims and followers.

Trump gave the country CCP talking points about the pandemic. It’s almost like he wanted the worst case scenario here. And that’s what we got.

 

[code1211]

Moore’s (FICA tax holiday) plan would be some help for those still working, but a closed (or struggling) business is not suddenly going to start hiring because of some (temporary) reduction in payroll taxes. If that were the case then reinstating the FICA payroll taxes would then be a ‘job killing’ program.

In view of the actual science on this, vaccinating the elderly who comprise 92+% of deaths seems to be the best course forward.

Opening the schools and providing protections against frivolous law suits made by those who catch covid and try to blame a business seems appropriate.

The death rate among those aged 59 and younger is less than almost any other mass killer in our society annually including the common flu.

The best course forward is to protect the vulnerable and open the economy. It's been the best course forward since early Summer..

 

[Aunt Antifa]

In view of the actual science on this, vaccinating the elderly who comprise 92+% of deaths seems to be the best course forward.

Opening the schools and providing protections against frivolous law suits made by those who catch covid and try to blame a business seems appropriate.

The death rate among those aged 59 and younger is less than almost any other mass killer in our society annually including the common flu.

The best course forward is to protect the vulnerable and open the economy. It's been the best course forward since early Summer..

This plan has made red states a virtual shithole and is giving us 4K deaths a day.

Republicans have gotten covid so disastrously wrong there’s no way it was an accident. Kushner and Trump using it as a cudgel against blue states created a lot of this mess.

 

[Vern]

Yeah, Cash for Clunkers was stellar.

It was. Not only did it put a definite end to the Great Bush Recession, it was also profitable.