• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathrooms

Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

Im not in support of such. Rogue is.

Oh ? You don't support gender segregation in bathrooms ? Was this comment sarcastic :

I agree the political solutions are a problem, on both sides.

How this, if you're transitioning, undercare from a qualified doctor and presenting as the gender you are transitioning to, you can use that bathroom. If you aren't stay out. If you are caught abusing this (pretending to be trans to sneak in for example) bad bad consequences for you. If you are still intact as Male you don't get naked in women's public locker rooms, (or FTM in mens). That's just all there is to it.

Because it obviously contradicts your denial above to claim that using the "wrong" bathroom should have "bad bad consequences for you."

Myself, i believe in liberty and freedom, not authoritarian control.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

Oh ? You don't support gender segregation in bathrooms ? Was this comment sarcastic :



Because it obviously contradicts your denial above to claim that using the "wrong" bathroom should have "bad bad consequences for you."

You really make zero sense, have no sarcasm meter and I'm lost in this conversation with you.


Myself, i believe in liberty and freedom, not authoritarian control.
t
I want the freedom for people to use the bathroom they should be, while keeping those that are bad actors at bay with consequences. If that isn't clear to you, I cannot help you.

Who gives two ****s about your silly proclamation about freedom and liberty? That's the silliest thing in this whole conversation. "I believe in LIBERTY! FREEDOM!"

Great, here's a cookie.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

You really make zero sense, have no sarcasm meter and I'm lost in this conversation with you.


t
I want the freedom for people to use the bathroom they should be, while keeping those that are bad actors at bay with consequences. If that isn't clear to you, I cannot help you.

Who gives two ****s about your silly proclamation about freedom and liberty? That's the silliest thing in this whole conversation. "I believe in LIBERTY! FREEDOM!"

Great, here's a cookie.

What is "bad" about using the other bathroom ...?

What is "good" about gender segregation in bathrooms ...?

All i'm doing is trying to understand your view. All i see from you is dishonesty, ad hominem, and criticism.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

What is "bad" about using the other bathroom ...?

What is "good" about gender segregation in bathrooms ...?

All i'm doing is trying to understand your view. All i see from you is dishonesty, ad hominem, and criticism.
You aren't trying to understand ****.

Men and women need separate restrooms, what's so hard about that?

Trans (which is what this about) identify as the opposite gender they were born as.
They should be able to, as long as they are transitioning and actively presenting as the opposite gender from their birth, use the according restroom.
There are bad actors that would abuse these, to cause harm, we should have measure in place to deal with these people harshly, to protect society.

Any other questions?
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

You aren't trying to understand ****.

Men and women need separate restrooms, what's so hard about that?

Trans (which is what this about) identify as the opposite gender they were born as.
They should be able to, as long as they are transitioning and actively presenting as the opposite gender from their birth, use the according restroom.
There are bad actors that would abuse these, to cause harm, we should have measure in place to deal with these people harshly, to protect society.

Any other questions?

Why do men and women need separate bathrooms ?
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

Why do men and women need separate bathrooms ?

The first sex-segregated toilets were assembled in a Parisian restaurant for a ball held in 1739.[2] Preceding this, public restrooms were unmarked or marked for men only.[1] The need to establish sex-segregated bathrooms in the United States arose from a lack of women's restrooms in workplaces (toilets had been for men's use only). In 1887, Massachusetts became the first state in the United States to pass legislation requiring any workplace with female employees to have a female-specific restroom. By the 1920s, most states had passed laws regarding sex-segregated bathrooms.[1]

Causes[edit]
American public restrooms are regulated by two separate federal agencies. The U.S. Department of Labor governs workplace restrooms while non-workplace restrooms are governed by the Department of Health and Human Services.[1] Many places in the United States are "legally prohibited from offering only restrooms for men."[1] Mary Anne Case points out "Even in public spaces, such as restaurants, where two single occupancy, self enclosed toilet facilities are all that is provided to customers, signs designate one 'Stallions' and the other 'Fillies,' one 'Pointers' and the other 'Setters,' or, more prosaically, one 'Ladies' and the other "Gents.'"[3] These regulations are mostly based on the precedent created by original legislation, though they sometimes also work to eliminate the longer wait time females often face by creating a ratio of more female restrooms than male restrooms.

Building codes are another reason that urinary segregation continues, because buildings from different eras are subject to different codes.[4] In many situations, building owners do not update existing features because it allows them to continue following the older building codes that go along with those older features.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urinary_segregation

Also, men are pigs.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom


I don't place a lot of value tradition for the sake of tradition when it becomes divisive.

I don't think people should generally be concerned with what other people are doing in the bathroom. Use is voluntary. There's plenty of exceptions, including the other bathroom simply being over-utilized. If someone does something truly wrong once they are inside the bathroom, it doesn't really matter what gender they are.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

I don't place a lot of value tradition for the sake of tradition when it becomes divisive.

I don't think people should generally be concerned with what other people are doing in the bathroom. Use is voluntary. There's plenty of exceptions, including the other bathroom simply being over-utilized. If someone does something truly wrong once they are inside the bathroom, it doesn't really matter what gender they are.

Thats nice.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

Okay, very simple question. If every other organ and tissue is working 'in sync' with a body's genetic gender, how can the one organ that is not 'in sync' be referred to as normal?
Normal : conforming to a standard; usual, typical or extended
How can it not be dysfunctional?
Dysfunctional : not operating normally or properly

I've explained this more times than I can count. The brain is NOT dysfunctional. MOST organs in the body have nothing to do with the problems being discussed here. The issues are the brain and the body's sex organs. There is an inconsistency between these two systems. Neither is dysfunctional. Neither is working improperly. They BOTH are not working well TOGETHER. The issue is not either, the issue is the system.

The body is a whole. Always will be. ONE organ doesn't fit into the programmed, objectively recognized development of THAT body. The one organ that does not fit in HAS to be abnormal and dysfunctional.

Incorrect as explained above and explained over and over.

You dismissed the gynecomastia analogy as 'a completely different issue.' That was the point. It is a different issue for you because you are starting with the assumption that the discord that is caused by the abnormally developed brain is not due to the abnormally developed brain. It is the same issue when viewed objectively. The person is genetically and physically one gender, but has a single organ/tissue (breast in this case) that developed 'out of sync' with that gender. It has nothing to do with whether the man identifies as a woman now that he has breasts. That is what is referred to as relativism. When is a square not a square? When it feels like a triangle.

Gynecomastia is due to an irregular development INSIDE the system. Transsexuality is due to an irregular development OF the system. With the former, there is nothing about the development of female breasts that is triggered by any part of the sexual system. With transsexuality, there IS. This is not relativism. A hexagon has both a square and a triangle in it. Which is it? Neither. It's a hexagon. If you want to make it a square or triangle, you have to change it, removing something. If you remove the square... you have nothing. Remove the triangles and you still have the square. This is not black and white thinking.

Read the studies. A transgender brain has a physical structure more similar to the assumed gender than the physical gender. The only way this claim can be made is if there is a 'normal' brain for a specific gender. Then, if the transgender brain does not fit that defined normal, it is... wait for it... abnormal. If brains act in a certain way for a specific gender, and the transgender brain does not act in the same way, then it is by definition dysfunctional. This is an interesting scenario, because the only way to dismiss those two very simple, logical statements is to make the claim that there is no 'normal' for a gender. And if there is no normal for a gender, then there is no evidence for biological differences of the transgender brain. If the brain is not dysfunctional, then there is no need for psychotherapy (a discipline that treats mental dysfunction). If gender is a feeling and not a physical trait, then surgically altering physical traits should not effect the feeling of gender.

Everything you say above is incorrect. If the brain of a transsexual is more like the brain of the gender of which they identify than the brain of their anatomical sex then... wait for it... it's not ABNORMAL, it's different than the brain of those of the same anatomical gender. There is nothing structurally wrong with the brain. It's just inconsistent with the body. This is a dysfunction of the system. As far as whether or not there is "normal" for gender, there is STATISTICALLY normal. That's about it. And if the brain is not dysfunctional, the reason for psychotherapy is to treat the GDD, NOT the transsexuality, as I have explained, over and over. And gender is not necessarily a feeling, not in the way that you are using it. It is how we are wired in the parts of our brains that determine our perception of our own gender. When there is an inconsistency and that inconsistency is resolved through surgery, the perception doesn't change at all. The wiring remains the same.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

I've explained this more times than I can count. The brain is NOT dysfunctional. MOST organs in the body have nothing to do with the problems being discussed here. The issues are the brain and the body's sex organs. There is an inconsistency between these two systems. Neither is dysfunctional. Neither is working improperly. They BOTH are not working well TOGETHER. The issue is not either, the issue is the system.



Incorrect as explained above and explained over and over.



Gynecomastia is due to an irregular development INSIDE the system. Transsexuality is due to an irregular development OF the system. With the former, there is nothing about the development of female breasts that is triggered by any part of the sexual system. With transsexuality, there IS. This is not relativism. A hexagon has both a square and a triangle in it. Which is it? Neither. It's a hexagon. If you want to make it a square or triangle, you have to change it, removing something. If you remove the square... you have nothing. Remove the triangles and you still have the square. This is not black and white thinking.



Everything you say above is incorrect. If the brain of a transsexual is more like the brain of the gender of which they identify than the brain of their anatomical sex then... wait for it... it's not ABNORMAL, it's different than the brain of those of the same anatomical gender. There is nothing structurally wrong with the brain. It's just inconsistent with the body. This is a dysfunction of the system. As far as whether or not there is "normal" for gender, there is STATISTICALLY normal. That's about it. And if the brain is not dysfunctional, the reason for psychotherapy is to treat the GDD, NOT the transsexuality, as I have explained, over and over. And gender is not necessarily a feeling, not in the way that you are using it. It is how we are wired in the parts of our brains that determine our perception of our own gender. When there is an inconsistency and that inconsistency is resolved through surgery, the perception doesn't change at all. The wiring remains the same.

What is the difference you keep citing between a transsexual and someone suffering from GDD?

It seems to be that a transsexual has this 'inconsistency' but does not have the dysphoria. Is that what you are referring to? If that is the case, do you support SRS for transsexuals? Or just for those who have GDD?

Not sure what you are talking about with the hexagon analogy. Shapes are defined by their number of sides and angles, not their interior. Seems like definitions are relative no matter what topic is being discussed.
 
Last edited:
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

I think it is nice to have a policy that doesn't contradict itself.

I really don't agree with your stance, and I think it's best we leave it at a disagreement. You're out to destroy the status quo because, progress where as I want to maintain some semblance of normalcy with flexibility in a changing world. You're a radical, I'm not. It was nice talking to you, but I'm done now on this subject.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

I really don't agree with your stance, and I think it's best we leave it at a disagreement. You're out to destroy the status quo because, progress where as I want to maintain some semblance of normalcy with flexibility in a changing world. You're a radical, I'm not. It was nice talking to you, but I'm done now on this subject.

My stance is the status quo. Don't criminalize the ordinary use of the bathroom.

You are likely resorting to name-calling and evasion because you acknowledge the weakness of your position.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

You want nonsense? How about a mentally ill man pretending to be a woman. How's that for nonsense?

I see you were just teleported here from the fifties. Well, a lot has changed since your time. Black people can drink out of the same water fountains as any one else. Women can have jobs now that don't involve sewing needles or typewriters and the military and the medical establishment no longer consider homosexuality or gender identity disorders to be mental illness. Therefore, your douche-centric opinion is wrong, but only for our time. So, once you return to your own time (the sooner the better), you won't stand out as being utterly stupid. For now, though...*sigh*....yeah.

Gosh, I hope your flux capacitor doesn't fail!
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

What is the difference you keep citing between a transsexual and someone suffering from GDD?

Not all transsexuals suffer from GDD, though I'd imagine many do. GDD is a manifestation of the dysphoria related to the brain-body inconsistency.

It seems to be that a transsexual has this 'inconsistency' but does not have the dysphoria. Is that what you are referring to? If that is the case, do you support SRS for transsexuals? Or just for those who have GDD?

My guess is that any transsexual who wants SRS has GDD. Ultimately, I cannot sign off an a transsexual having SRS if they do not have GDD, so my answer would be that I support it for transsexuals with GDD.

Not sure what you are talking about with the hexagon analogy. Shapes are defined by their number of sides and angles, not their interior. Seems like definitions are relative no matter what topic is being discussed.

It was an example of how a shape can have other shapes inside of it.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

Not all transsexuals suffer from GDD, though I'd imagine many do. GDD is a manifestation of the dysphoria related to the brain-body inconsistency.
My guess is that any transsexual who wants SRS has GDD. Ultimately, I cannot sign off an a transsexual having SRS if they do not have GDD, so my answer would be that I support it for transsexuals with GDD.
It was an example of how a shape can have other shapes inside of it.

Okay, I think I understand your viewpoint completely. Correct me if I'm wrong. Transsexuals have an inconsistency between their perceived gender and their genetic gender with some evidence to suggest that this is due to developmental changes in brain anatomy/function that is different from non-transsexuals (approximately 99.997% of the population according to some studies). Only some of that 0.003% of the population that are transsexuals experience dysphoria due to that inconsistency. So those with GDD (the only one's for whom SRS is considered appropriate in your statement) are not only biologically different from non-transsexuals, but also functionally different from other transsexuals. These differences are great enough to require psychotherapy because they impair this person's ability to function normally. And yet people with this condition are biologically and functionally 'normal' in your view.

Do you understand the reason why that position seems illogical to some?

And hexagons do not contain either squares or triangles unless one artificially adds lines to subdivide the shape that was already present. Much like speaking of the brain and body as though they were separable.
 
Re: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathroom

Okay, I think I understand your viewpoint completely. Correct me if I'm wrong. Transsexuals have an inconsistency between their perceived gender and their genetic gender with some evidence to suggest that this is due to developmental changes in brain anatomy/function that is different from non-transsexuals (approximately 99.997% of the population according to some studies). Only some of that 0.003% of the population that are transsexuals experience dysphoria due to that inconsistency. So those with GDD (the only one's for whom SRS is considered appropriate in your statement) are not only biologically different from non-transsexuals, but also functionally different from other transsexuals. These differences are great enough to require psychotherapy because they impair this person's ability to function normally. And yet people with this condition are biologically and functionally 'normal' in your view.

You nailed it perfectly right up until the end. I never said that these people are biologically or functionally "normal". Their organs are biologically and functionally "normal". The inconsistency between the two creates an abnormal situation. That's why treatment is required.

Do you understand the reason why that position seems illogical to some?

You didn't get the position completely correct, so based on what YOU wrote, I can see that. However, since what you wrote is not correct, that really doesn't matter.

And hexagons do not contain either squares or triangles unless one artificially adds lines to subdivide the shape that was already present. Much like speaking of the brain and body as though they were separable.

The brain and body are separate in how they operate in these cases. That's why the hexagon example works.
 
Back
Top Bottom