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States to Senate: Send More Federal Aid

drz-400

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NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- States are looking to the federal government for more help balancing their budgets, but the Senate is not heeding their call.

Federal aid to the states was among the top priorities in an early Senate job creation bill, as well as in a $154 billion measure passed by the House in December. But it has fallen off the list as Senate Democrats look to craft legislation that will attract bipartisan support.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., on Thursday unveiled a jobs bill that does not contain state aid. A Senate Democratic aide said Reid hopes to back a state aid measure in the future. Republican support, however, remains questionable.

Experts and state officials say they need to know now whether they'll get more funds. Governors are currently crafting their budgets and, for many, it will be their third year of contending with massive deficits due to declining tax revenues.

States are looking at a total budget gap of $180 billion for fiscal 2011, which for most of them begins July 1. These cuts could lead to a loss of 900,000 jobs, according to Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Economy.com.

Senate moves on jobs - but not state rescue - Feb. 13, 2010

Don't expect any bi-partisan support soon.

Cloture_Voting,_U.S._Senate,_1947_to_2008.jpg


It is still unknown whether a trimmed down jobs bill without aid to states will even pass.

Hatch Opposes Reid’s Jobs Bill - Washington Wire - WSJ:

...Reid surprised his colleagues by stripping the bill of various provisions, such as disaster relief funds for agriculture, leaving only the core job-creation elements, including the Hatch-Schumer proposal. Reid was reacting to protests from Democrats that the Baucus-Grassley measure included too many extraneous provisions designed to win Republican support, but Reid’s abrupt stripping down of the bill angered Republicans.

Democrats, who now have 59 votes in the Senate - one short of the 60 needed to overcome GOP filibusters - are hoping a handful of Republicans support the stripped-down $15 billion measure, whose elements are popular among lawmakers of both parties.

...

"Leader Reid’s surprising decision to abandon a bipartisan job creation bill is an ominous sign and contradicts the president’s call for both parties to come together. This is not how you legislate in the United States Senate and demonstrates a tremendous arrogance of power.”

I disagree, it is you who is abandoning bipartisan support.

“His comments are puzzling at best,” Reid spokesman Jim Manley said Saturday. “After all, his payroll tax exemption is a key part of our package. There is simply no reason, except maybe for political reasons, that this slimmed-down bill focusing specifically on job creation shouldn’t pass with overwhelming bipartisan support.”

I too, cannot understand why republicans are using the fillibuster on bills that I would label as centrist (and including their own proposals)...

Senate Republicans: Filibuster everything to win in November? | McClatchy:

"It strikes me that Democrats are looking for someone to blame for their failed agenda that they can't even get Democrats, let alone the American people, to support," said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, a 33-year Senate veteran."

hmm... So the states (who you are supposed to represent) don't want federal aid? Democrats can't blame you for not even voting on your own proposal?

Budget cuts loom as Utah opens legislative session - BusinessWeek:

SALT LAKE CITY- Utah lawmakers returned to work Monday focused on looming budget cuts as the state remains in the throes of an economic recession.

Lawmakers will need to trim about $200 million from the state's $11.3 billion budget in the first few weeks. Once that's completed, they'll get to work on the upcoming budget year that begins July 1, in which there's a $700 million projected shortfall for state programs.

If Mark Zandi's estimates are correct, the vast majority of state layoffs are still to come. I doubt we can count on the senate to get any aid out in time with the way it is currently operating. So much for good governance. I just hope we don't pull a 1937 and start worrying about the federal debt too soon (oops).

Premature Exit - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com

All I can say is, I am about fed up with the 110th congress.
 
Don't expect any bi-partisan support soon.

Cloture_Voting,_U.S._Senate,_1947_to_2008.jpg

Misleading graph. That's not the number of filibustered bills, it's the number of cloture votes, which are invoked by the opposition to the filibusterers. The fact is that it is very, very rare for any bill to pass with less than 60 votes in the Senate. That's true not just now, but it has been for a long long time.



I too, cannot understand why republicans are using the fillibuster on bills that I would label as centrist (and including their own proposals)...

Maybe because they don't support them? Nah, that's crazy talk....


All I can say is, I am about fed up with the 110th congress.


Then it's a good thing we're past that one, and into the 111th.
 
Misleading graph. That's not the number of filibustered bills, it's the number of cloture votes, which are invoked by the opposition to the filibusterers. The fact is that it is very, very rare for any bill to pass with less than 60 votes in the Senate. That's true not just now, but it has been for a long long time.





Maybe because they don't support them? Nah, that's crazy talk....





Then it's a good thing we're past that one, and into the 111th.

I would understand if they did just not support them. However the Hatch-Schumer proposal is an integral part of the bill, and hatch is voting against it. They should have 60 votes anyways.

Also the graph shows how many times cloture was invoked, not just how many votes on cloture there were.

Thanks, 111th, duh.
 
Screw the graph. What is needed is a trip to the wood shed for all the damn fools in Washington who believe the State budget problems will be suddenly cured with a bail out.

They have to learn that they CANNOT keep giving out money we don't have to fix problems that will just get worse if they stay on the path of stupidity thinking that raising taxes is going to do anything but make the situation worse.

Try this on;
There are about 40 million people over 50 in the work force. Pay them $1 million apiece severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire. Forty million job openings - Unemployment fixed.

2) They MUST buy a new American CAR. Forty million cars ordered - Auto Industry fixed.

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage - Housing Crisis fixed.

It can't get any easier than that!!


P. S.. If more money is needed, have all members in Congress pay their taxes...

Mr. President, while you're at it, make Congress retire on Social Security and Medicare. I'll bet both programs would be fixed pronto!

I only wish I was the Author, I think it makes so much sense.
 
Try this on;

I only wish I was the Author, I think it makes so much sense.

Uhh, you should probably run the math on that one my friend. $(40,000,000 * 1,000,000)

edit: also, you ever check housing prices in New York? After a house and car, at age 50, you aren't making it to 75...
 
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Federal aid is a negative to states rights.
 
The Republicans won't cooperate because any bipartisan action makes the Democratic Party look better to independents than them. If gridlocks are bad for the country, then they can always fix them once they are in power. That's been their electoral strategy ever since Barack Obama promised bipartisanship. It was always a bad idea for Obama to do that; don't make the premise for your well-being contingent on the accommodations of your opponents.

Such Machiavellian methods would impress me more if the Republicans could actually fix something. I would say Republicans are good at campaigning, except with their base you don't really have to try.
 
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The Republicans won't cooperate because any bipartisan action makes the Democratic Party look better to independents than them.

Not true.

If gridlocks are bad for the country, then they can always fix them once they are in power. That's been their electoral strategy ever since Barack Obama promised bipartisanship.

Not true.

It was always a bad idea for Obama to do that; don't make the premise for your well-being contingent on the accommodations of your opponents.

Not true.

Such Machiavellian methods would impress me more if the Republicans could actually fix something. I would say Republicans are good at campaigning, except with their base you don't really have to try.

Not true.
 
Not true.



Not true.



Not true.



Not true.

One "not true" would have covered my post.

Right. You're not really believable. Independents really wanted bipartisanship, Obama promised bipartisanship. Republicans want to beat Obama. What compelling reason do they have to be bipartisan when it makes the Democrats look better than them? After Bush's "take it or leave it" approach, successful bipartisan measures under a Democratic presidency and congress would give the impression Democrats are paragons and Republicans suck.

Can political parties deliberately pursue strategies that weaken their electoral prospects for the sake of principle? Is being bipartisan really a cherished Republican principle?

At what point did I go astray?
 
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Federal aid is a negative to states rights.

Could you please explain this more?

Also, it would seem if you don't like raising taxes, you would want federal aid, since that most definetly is what many states will probobly be doing to help pay for the budget gap.
 
At what point did I go astray?

Every single one, as I already said.


1. A party is not a person. People vote on things, not parties.
2. If a party votes unanimously against something, it's a pretty good sign that basically no attempt had been made to reach out to any of its members.
3. No president has ever needed a supermajority in Congress to get things done, even though the opposing party always hates the president.
4. A party is not even a thing. Republicans and Democrats do not have different strategies or styles for governance. Different people do.
5. Obstructing the Democrat's agenda would not be good politics if the Democrat's agenda was popular.

I could go on.
 
Could you please explain this more?

It doesn't make sense unless you also include that the federal aid has strings attached.

Federal aid only is negative to states' rights when it forces states to adopt certain measures to get the money. Freely given federal money is not negative to states' rights.
 
Every single one, as I already said.


1. A party is not a person. People vote on things, not parties.

Statistically, most congressman vote the party line 90% of the time.

2. If a party votes unanimously against something, it's a pretty good sign that basically no attempt had been made to reach out to any of its members.

Not true at all. Usually its just a sign of party discipline. For example, in the Senate a healthcare bill was written by the gang of 6. 3 Democrats, 3 Republicans. The final bill did not draw a single Republican vote.

3. No president has ever needed a supermajority in Congress to get things done, even though the opposing party always hates the president.

Not always. Democrats worked with Reagan in the 1980s. Democrats worked with Nixon. Some Republicans worked with LBJ.

The use of the filibuster by Republicans in the last year to the extent they have is unprecedented in my lifetime.

4. A party is not even a thing. Republicans and Democrats do not have different strategies or styles for governance. Different people do.

Parties by and large are a thing. See 1.

5. Obstructing the Democrat's agenda would not be good politics if the Democrat's agenda was popular.

Anytime you have complicated bills, they will be controversial, and easy to obstruct. Its a pretty good situation for Republicans to be in. They can raise hell against things like the stimulus, vote against it, yet still reap the benefits of it when they do their ribbon cuttings for stimulus funds in their districts that they voted against. Kind of a win / win situation for them.

Dav, for someone that puts themselves out as being moderate, you are one of the more partisan Republicans on here. This thread really brings that to light. I don't blame the Republicans for being obstructionists. It is a good political strategy for them, but lets call a spade a spade here. They are deliberately being obstructionists and they are doing so because its in their interest to do so.
 
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Statistically, most congressman vote the party line 90% of the time.

And that doesn't mean that some sort of group of Party Elders come up with a plan about how people should vote. It means that people of the same party are by and large ideologically in line with each other.


Not true at all. Usually its just a sign of party discipline. For example, in the Senate a healthcare bill was written by the gang of 6. 3 Democrats, 3 Republicans. The final bill did not draw a single Republican vote.

If 3 Republicans had been involved in writing it, then 3 Republicans would have voted for it.


Not always. Democrats worked with Reagan in the 1980s. Democrats worked with Nixon. Some Republicans worked with LBJ.

LBJ, like Obama, had a supermajority and did not need Republican support.


The use of the filibuster by Republicans in the last year to the extent they have is unprecedented in my lifetime.

That's because usually filibuster is unnecessary, because as soon as it becomes clear that a bill won't go through, its proponents change strategy. What's (almost) unprecedented is that the Democrats have had such huge majorities, they haven't had to worry until recently about not being able to pass something if they could just get all of their Senators on board. The fact is - as I've already pointed out - that it is very, very rare for a bill to pass with less than 60 votes in the Senate.


Parties by and large are a thing. See 1.

Only partisans really think this.


Anytime you have complicated bills, they will be controversial, and easy to obstruct.

Right, voters are too stupid to understand complicated issues, democracy doesn't work, etc. I've heard plenty of that recently.

Its a pretty good situation for Republicans to be in. They can raise hell against things like the stimulus, vote against it, yet still reap the benefits of it when they do their ribbon cuttings for stimulus funds in their districts that they voted against. Kind of a win / win situation for them.

You do realize that the stimulus was initially popular? It was very politically risky for Republicans to almost unanimously oppose it.

Dav, for someone that puts themselves out as being moderate

I really don't (anymore).

you are one of the more partisan Republicans on here.

I am not the partisan one. I do not think that the Republican Party and Democratic Party are inherently different in their strategies or governing style; apparently, you do.

This thread really brings that to light. I don't blame the Republicans for being obstructionists. It is a good political strategy for them,

Not always. How good was it for them when they opposed FDR's New Deal? Obstructionism is a good strategy when you are obstructing things that are not popular.

but lets call a spade a spade here. They are deliberately being obstructionists and they are doing so because its in their interest to do so.

See above.
 
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Could you please explain this more?

Also, it would seem if you don't like raising taxes, you would want federal aid, since that most definetly is what many states will probobly be doing to help pay for the budget gap.
The less handouts the states get from the federal govt the better.
 
Now here's a novel idea. Instead of the states begging federal government for money, how about the Federal government reduce its tax burden on the states, and allow the states to decide whether or not to tax its citizens. Projects become a lot cheaper if you eliminate the middleman.
 
Normally I'm not a fan of the federal government funding states, but during a severe recession it's an excellent idea. It helps states cover their temporary budget shortfalls, and it's one of the best forms of stimulus because the states can decide for themselves how their citizens most need it. However, the federal aid needs to be apportioned based on population and/or gross state product (or some combination of the two), rather than on which congressmen have the most influence.
 
Uh....send more what?

You mean, the money that the fed doesn't have to send?

Where does all this non-existent money keep coming from? Or not coming from?

We don't have any money, folks. We're flat busted.
 
Every single one, as I already said.

1. A party is not a person. People vote on things, not parties.

I don't see your point. It is a collective entity. It has functions. I described some of them. Specifically its electoral strategy.

The Republican Party has leaders, strategists, and is a relatively closely knit coalition; state parties work at their own discretion, but they receive cues from Washington D.C. and usually follow them.

2. If a party votes unanimously against something, it's a pretty good sign that basically no attempt had been made to reach out to any of its members.

You are drawing an inference that does not necessarily follow. It does not really apply in American politics, and especially not to the Republican Party.

The nationwide mass media makes it so party belonging politicians stand together or fall separately in the American political system. The Democrats vs. Republicans drama does not allow for strong distinctions. Any sound, national-level party electoral strategy incorporates this understanding of American politics and coordinates the campaigns of its members accordingly.

3. No president has ever needed a supermajority in Congress to get things done, even though the opposing party always hates the president.

What? Presidents have 'failed' all the time because they lack supermajorities. Failure is subjective in politics anyway, since passing any kind of bill can be considered a huge success, regardless of its effectiveness. This statement is way too generalized. For example, do you mean 'fail' as in not passing a promised policy? If so, promised policies have failed all the time because of lacking supermajorities. That's the same as saying filibusters have never troubled any presidency.

4. A party is not even a thing. Republicans and Democrats do not have different strategies or styles for governance. Different people do.

What? They do too. They even have measures for punishing people who defect from the party line: they cut off funding and support and re-apportion it to people who stand with the party. That's why Arlen Specter switched sides, because they were going to punish him for defecting on a policy. Another thing is you can isolate somebody; make a collective agreement not to support any of their proposals or measures. Such s the give-and-take nature of politics.

Olympia Snowe would have gotten a similar treatment, except in her case it mattered less because her district was heavily supportive of health care reform; she had less motivation to concur with the party because she would have alienated her base even if she didn't have their support or funding. That said, the Republican Party would have had less reason to inflict a penalty.

5. Obstructing the Democrat's agenda would not be good politics if the Democrat's agenda was popular.

This doesn't have anything to do with what I said. But for one thing, the Republican Party has the resources and networks to make things popular or unpopular among their base, and 'popularity' is a tricky concept when people are dispersed in isolated groups across many regions. Also, there is a certain ethical question in the midst.

I could go on.

I hope you are prepared to actually address my points thoroughly and systematically instead of vaguely.
 
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Uh....send more what?

You mean, the money that the fed doesn't have to send?

Where does all this non-existent money keep coming from? Or not coming from?

We don't have any money, folks. We're flat busted.

Well, the 10 yr. T notes interest rate is at 3.7%, which is histrically low. It seems people flocked to U.S. debt when the recession hit, to them it looks like a safe haven.
 
Now here's a novel idea. Instead of the states begging federal government for money, how about the Federal government reduce its tax burden on the states, and allow the states to decide whether or not to tax its citizens. Projects become a lot cheaper if you eliminate the middleman.

I would agree, but what do you do right now.

States are projected to have $180,000,000 in budget shortfalls by july 1 resulting in 900,000 layoffs. Unemployment is 9.7% and the economy is in the midst of a housing crisis.

What should we do? Go.

Edit: thats actually 180,000,000,000
 
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I would agree, but what do you do right now.

States are projected to have $180,000,000 in budget shortfalls by july 1 resulting in 900,000 layoffs. Unemployment is 9.7% and the economy is in the midst of a housing crisis.

What should we do? Go.

Edit: thats actually 180,000,000,000

The anti Obama crowd would love nothing more than to see the unemployment rate climb, and therefore the policies in which they are calling for match up nicely (not talking about you Dan).
 
Some more bad news.

Calculated Risk: Five Million Workers to Exhaust Unemployment Benefits by June

1.2 million jobless workers will become ineligible for federal unemployment benefits in March unless Congress extends the unemployment safety net programs from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA). By June, this number will swell to nearly 5 million unemployed workers nationally who will be left without any jobless benefits.
...
Currently, 5.6 million people are accessing one of the federal extensions (34-53 weeks of Emergency Unemployment Compensation; 13-20 weeks of Extended Benefits, a program normally funded 50 percent by the states).

LoseBenefits.jpg


Instead lets just play politics and delay a new jobs bill.

Another interesting piece of news:

In Elkhart, Ind., Fear for the Day When Housing Aid Ends - NYTimes.com

For now, the F.H.A. is modestly tightening the requirements on some of its programs, trying to strike a balance between stabilizing the market with qualified buyers and overwhelming it with unqualified borrowers.

John Katalinich, chief lending officer at the Inova Federal Credit Union in Elkhart, says there is danger in letting buyers get into properties with so little at stake, but those risks are minimal compared to the alternative.

“If the government were not to continue the same level of support, it would be very detrimental, like cutting the legs off a wobbling child and expecting it to run a marathon,” he said. “It’s very possible we’ll still be at this level of need five years from now.

Housing starts is the best leading indicator for unemployment, and I can tell you that this is most likely showing unemployment will remain high for some time. But, I realize that our defecit is a more pressing issue, since it might actually hurt us in 20 years. We all know its easy to pay down a defecit with record unemployment. unbelievable.
 
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reid's the one playing politics, i spose

he didn't delay the jobs bill, he killed it

this state bankruptcy thingy is just one of about a dozen apocalyptic catastrophes out there just waiting to crash down, multiple of which are certain to do so in 2010

cities bellying up can be just as bad, some number of metros like san jose, ca...

banks collapsing, the housing market, the euro, the dollar...

iran, afghanistan, pakistan, israel, putin, korea, taiwan...

an act of terror, any time, any place...

employment numbers, the dow, the prospect of a double dip...

troubles, troubles at every turn, numberless and monstrous

too much certainly for any deft leader to deal with, sure footed, able

for obama, in contrast...

2010 is gonna get really ugly
 
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