State of emergency

[Nomad4Ever]

You are too kind. From the lips of western politicians you would be forgiven if they left you with the impression there is not a single ethnic Russian in Donbass. Some even question whether Crimeans even are pro Russian. In the script of the Nato Club ethnic Russian minorities are not indigenous people with a right to have their issues addressed. They are Russian implants or 5th columnists

It literally wouldn't matter if 100% of the Donbass was ethnically Russian unless you think ethnostates are justified.

 

[Higgins86]

I am only addressing a common inconsistent by many. Maybe not you, if you object to all Anschlusses. It is not the case with others. The fact of the matter is Anschlusses appear to be good when it is by members of the Nato Club but evil when it is by Serbs and Russians

Turkey was responding to an attempted military coup in Cyprus sponsored by a military Junta in Athens. They had plead with Britain and the US before the July invasion to let them send troops to defend Turkish Cypriot's and to ensure Cyprus remained neutral. They were ignored.

 

[Juin]

It literally wouldn't matter if 100% of the Donbass was ethnically Russian unless you think ethnostates are justified.

All the independent ex Soviet Socialist states are ethnostates. Their justification is their difference from Russians and objections to Russian domination. The same arguments hold for ethnic Russian minorities under the newly minted states.

Why is the right of ethnic Ukrainians to seek independence from Russia and not the right of Russian minorities to also seek independence from Ukraine?

 

[Juin]

Turkey was responding to an attempted military coup in Cyprus sponsored by a military Junta in Athens. They had plead with Britain and the US before the July invasion to let them send troops to defend Turkish Cypriot's and to ensure Cyprus remained neutral. They were ignored.

Sounds very much to me like something from the Russian script. Don't forget that a coup in Kiev in 2024 also started the ball rolling.

 

[Higgins86]

Sounds very much to me like something from the Russian script. Don't forget that a coup in Kiev in 2024 also started the ball rolling.

Not really. The coup had already attempted to kill the President who had to flee to RAF Akotori and that was before a single Turkish soldier set foot in Cyprus.

Not to mention in years since Turkey have allowed southern Cyprus to vote on reunification and the Greek crypriots have declined several times.

 

[Juin]

Not really. The coup had already attempted to kill the President who had to flee to RAF Akotori and that was before a single Turkish soldier set foot in Cyprus.

Not to mention in years since Turkey have allowed southern Cyprus to vote on reunification and the Greek crypriots have declined several times.

I imagine Turkey has excellent reasons for its Anschluss. But Anschluss it was

 

[Nomad4Ever]

All the independent ex Soviet Socialist states are ethnostates. Their justification is their difference from Russians and objections to Russian domination. The same arguments hold for ethnic Russian minorities under the newly minted states.

Why is the right of ethnic Ukrainians to seek independence from Russia and not the right of Russian minorities to also seek independence from Ukraine?

None of those states you mentioned are ethnostates. They are separate countries that were simply carved up after the collapse of the soviet union.

There are ethnic minorities in every country, including an ethnic minority of Ukrainians within Russia. Every country can't just claim territory where people of the majority ethnicity of that country live. Should China come in an claims China towns in the US as Chinese territory?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The logical conclusion of this line of reasoning is that might makes right and any nation-state can just ****ing take what they want provided they have the force and will to do so, and the people on the wrong end of the invasion are just supposed to take it up the ass.

We live in the 21st century dawg.

Not every state is a nation state.

But that aside, in many cases yes night does make right.

Go to county courthouse in Brownsville Texas and describe the flag.

 

[Nilhus]

What's incredible to me is that you are able to spin all this as CIA misinfo when it is clearly just misinfo from the Russian side this entire time.

Wrong. Nearly all the disinformation today is being spread by the US&allies while at the same time falsely accusing Russia&other US enemies of spreading disinfo.
Typical American modus operandi which is not exactly new. Apparenly they realized that the public no longer cares when the West lies, it has near-zero actual negative consequences, so they'll keep spreading lies while falsely accusing others at the same time(it's also a cultural thing in America, people who lie and falsely accuse others get away with it pretty easily)

 

[oneworld2]

Oh boy don't get me started on what Tulsi Gabbard has been up to lately lmao

Yeah idiot leftists who think being pro-leftist means being anti-American and pro-China/Russia/Syria or whatever are a bunch of smoothbrains.

Some people's entire political ideology really just seems to be being anti-America. The more anti-America they are the most leftist they think they are. The end result is people who claim to be "leftist" defending Assad because he is an American geopolitical enemy. Or defending Russia's "fight against Western imperialism". Then Tucker Carlson agrees with them and they hold hands in their fight against Western degeneracy.

Excuse me for interupting the circle jerk but what a load of old tosh is contained in your posts above. Like as though you two, alone, are the sole/self appointed arbiters of who is truly Left and who isn't .

Had you been a Leftists in Latin America/Central America during the 70s and 80s you might well have been snuffed out by right wing government death squads supported by the US. Infact the US has made it its mission to assist in the killing of Leftists since the days they snuffed out Wobblies in the early part of the 20th century. You aren't even allowed a Left in the US even today, not one that will ever be allowed to gain control, the plutocrats will never allow it.


The trouble with people like you is that your default position is to be complete homers and any who question the " values " or " noble intentions" read bs, and/or actions of the West, whose ahem senior partner is the USA, must be a plastic Leftist who is in reality are " Assad fanbois" , " Putin agents " a "Saddam Hussein apologists"

Assad was ok for the US leaders when he was accepting US victims of " extraordinary rendition" read kidnap and torture, possible murder victims.

Saddam Hussein was ok for US leaders when he was gassing Iranians.

I will wager that a great many of the people you are pathetically trying to castigate here and throw the tag of " fake" Leftists at them are just waaaaaaay more informed about things than you two are and it is only ignorance that underpins your perspectives.

Get over yerselves, you are actually doing a great job of making the Left look dumb/uninformed.

 

[oneworld2]

Of course the Ukrainian leadership will and are right to declare a state of emergency. A large and powerful army has put troops and tanks into its territory .


Why wouldn't you?

 

[oneworld2]

Funny how ALL of your "Do your own research" takes are wronger than hell.

Ya boi just invaded the sovereign soil of another country and here you are calling it a regular "exercise." Because OF COURSE you would.

The posters comments were clearly refering to the first line of the post it was a response to and in that context there is nothing wrong with what they said and more wrong with how you read their post..


The post they replied to was from your friend, and co partner in the " whose a real Leftist" committee here, and in it he claimed that the timing of the recent exercises was a" coincidence" in relation to the" Donbass regions declared independence and asked for support.". He musn't know that the seperatist leaderships declared their independence in 2014 iirc.

Obviously what I said in my last post here has gained instant credit. You don't know what you are talking about imo

 

[oneworld2]

I think that particular poster is far right, but the point still stands. This situation has really exposed the asses of a lot of people claiming to be "leftists". Even Chomsky made some dumb statements. Really disappointing.

Chomsky is a proper Leftist imo and that's probably why you were " disappointed" with his comments.

Recall you are the one who thinks the Donbas seperatists JUST declared their independence

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Excuse me for interupting the circle jerk but what a load of old tosh is contained in your posts above. Like as though you two, alone, are the sole/self appointed arbiters of who is truly Left and who isn't .

Wrong. Not the two of us. Just me. I am the only true leftist.

Had you been a Leftists in Latin America/Central America during the 70s and 80s you might well have been snuffed out by right wing government death squads supported by the US. Infact the US has made it its mission to assist in the killing of Leftists since the days they snuffed out Wobblies in the early part of the 20th century. You aren't even allowed a Left in the US even today, not one that will ever be allowed to gain control, the plutocrats will never allow it.

Do you want me to dig through my post history and show you all the threads and comments I have made regarding US imperialism? Do you think I'm pro US? Do you think I'm pro NATO? I am well aware of the long, long list of US crimes. Especially regarding the suppression of anyone deemed a socialist in Latin America.

The trouble with people like you is that your default position is to be complete homers and any who question the " values " or " noble intentions" read bs, and/or actions of the West, whose ahem senior partner is the USA, must be a plastic Leftist who is in reality are " Assad fanbois" , " Putin agents " a "Saddam Hussein apologists"

It's really simply really. There is no argument based in leftist values that justifies the current invasion of Ukraine by Russia. I'm something of an anti-imperialist myself. I think US imperialism is bad and Russian imperialism is bad.

Assad was ok for the US leaders when he was accepting US victims of " extraordinary rendition" read kidnap and torture, possible murder victims.

Saddam Hussein was ok for US leaders when he was gassing Iranians.

Wow, almost like US leaders are not leftist, but are in fact imperialists who acting in their own self interests.

I will wager that a great many of the people you are pathetically trying to castigate here and throw the tag of " fake" Leftists at them are just waaaaaaay more informed about things than you two are and it is only ignorance that underpins your perspectives.

Get over yerselves, you are actually doing a great job of making the Left look dumb/uninformed.

Ignorance that underpins our perspectives? What part of our perspectives are ignorant? The only thing those leftists are more informed on is what the latest RT article says.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Recall you are the one who thinks the Donbas seperatists JUST declared their independence

My phrasing did not encapsulate the entirety of the situation because I was making a joke, but I am well aware of the history of Ukraine. The separatists regions in the Donbass did JUST ask Russia recognize their independence and asked Russia to send aid because they claimed Ukraine was planning an offensive. Russia just happened to have troops on the border when this occurred and suddenly decided to recognize there independence in a wild cosmic coincidence after all this time.

I have to ask you...after over 8 years of war, why on Earth would Ukraine plan on launching their offensive against the separatists regions at the exact time that Russia had over 100,000 troops on their border?

Chomsky is a proper Leftist imo and that's probably why you were " disappointed" with his comments.

I actually quite like Chomsky and have read many of his works. Turns out everyone is wrong sometimes.

 

[oneworld2]

Wrong. Not the two of us. Just me. I am the only true leftist.

Nah, he made the same stupid assertions so your bid to be special, a one off, has been declined

Do you want me to dig through my post history and show you all the threads and comments I have made regarding US imperialism? Do you think I'm pro US? Do you think I'm pro NATO? I am well aware of the long, long list of US crimes. Especially regarding the suppression of anyone deemed a socialist in Latin America.

Which makes your comments and wish to be judge , jury and executioner as to who has the right to refer to themselves as Leftists all the more amusing

It's really simply really. There is no argument based in leftist values that justifies the current invasion of Ukraine by Russia. I'm something of an anti-imperialist myself. I think US imperialism is bad and Russian imperialism is bad.

Understanding is not the same as " justification", maybe that's where you are struggling

Wow, almost like US leaders are not leftist, but are in fact imperialists who acting in their own self interests.

The plutocracy don't allow a Left wing threat/challenge in the US,

They all act in their own interests, all countries. It's not like its a golden nugget of truth

Ignorance that underpins our perspectives? What part of our perspectives are ignorant? The only thing those leftists are more informed on is what the latest RT article says.

So we should only expose ourselves to our own propaganda eh? Sounds like a plan.

 

[StillBallin75]

You are too kind. From the lips of western politicians you would be forgiven if they left you with the impression there is not a single ethnic Russian in Donbass. Some even question whether Crimeans even are pro Russian. In the script of the Nato Club ethnic Russian minorities are not indigenous people with a right to have their issues addressed. They are Russian implants or 5th columnists

I don't care. Your argument MIGHT have held SOME weight if we were talking about Crimea in 2014. That isn't the case here, and your argument about an oppressed Russian minority in Ukraine does not legitimize Putin's actions whatsoever.

 

[watsup]

Is Uncle Vlad upsetting the babies by moving his cardboard troops during night time ?

No wonder the US has such a perfect losing record . Top bleating but no results

Last phrase: psychological projection. “No results”. Have you forgotten who bailed you out in WWII?

 

[oneworld2]

My phrasing did not encapsulate the entirety of the situation because I was making a joke, but I am well aware of the history of Ukraine. The separatists regions in the Donbass did JUST ask Russia recognize their independence and asked Russia to send aid because they claimed Ukraine was planning an offensive. Russia just happened to have troops on the border when this occurred and suddenly decided to recognize there independence in a wild cosmic coincidence after all this time.

Nah, schoolboy errors always reveal the truth in the end here's what you wrote

"
Wow, it's lucky that all those Russian troops were so close by for their training exercise when the Donbass regions declared independence and asked for support. What a wacky coincidence. "

As I say they declared their independence yonks ago and it is only now that Putin has bothered to recognize it. What is it? 7 years after the fact ?

I actually quite like Chomsky and have read many of his works. Turns out everyone is wrong sometimes.

I'm putting Chomsky waaaaaaay ahead of you on this and I'll wager most everything else, Did you ever consider he might be right and you might be wrong? Radical isn't it?

BTW does he qualify as being a Leftist in your world or has he ruled himself out because you don't agree with him?

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Which makes your comments and wish to be judge , jury and executioner as to who has the right to refer to themselves as Leftists all the more amusing

It's not about who has a "right" to be a leftists. Red tankies just...aren't leftists. They don't represent any leftists values. They defend imperialism as long as it isn't Western. They disregard everything as CIA propaganda. And Tulsi Gabbard certainly isn't a leftist, I don't know why anyone ever thought she was.

Understanding is not the same as " justification", maybe that's where you are struggling

Oh I understand why Russia is invading Ukraine, and I completely condemn it. What is your understanding of the situation?

The plutocracy don't allow a Left wing threat/challenge in the US,

They all act in their own interests, all countries. It's not like its a golden nugget of truth

Yeah, all countries are kinda shit. That's why I agree with a lot of anarchist theory. I never said it was a golden nugget of truth.

So we should only expose ourselves to our own propaganda eh? Sounds like a plan.

Nope. That's why I read leftist news sources too. Not fascist propaganda outlets like RT.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Nah, schoolboy errors always reveal the truth in the end here's what you wrote

I don't have dementia. But I appreciate your concern for my memory.

As I say they declared their independence yonks ago and it is only now that Putin has bothered to recognize it. What is it? 7 years after the fact ?

Yeah, crazy coincidence isn't it. Why do you think they chose to do that right when Russia was conducting their training exercise? You never addressed that. You actually haven't addressed any point regarding the actual situation. You just keep calling me a dumb**** and claiming I don't know anything. You haven't made any arguments yourself. I don't even know what your position is on anything.

I'm putting Chomsky waaaaaaay ahead of you on this and I'll wager most everything else, Did you ever consider he might be right and you might be wrong? Radical isn't it?

I don't know, I'd certainly argue the point with Chomsky if he was here.

Seeing as that is a little difficult, why don't you argue your position instead? Should be pretty easy seeing as how ignorant I am.

BTW does he qualify as being a Leftist in your world or has he ruled himself out because you don't agree with him?

Yeah Chomsky is a pretty cool dude.

 

[oneworld2]

It's not about who has a "right" to be a leftists. Red tankies just...aren't leftists. They don't represent any leftists values. They defend imperialism as long as it isn't Western. They disregard everything as CIA propaganda. And Tulsi Gabbard certainly isn't a leftist, I don't know why anyone ever thought she was.

The " Red Tankie" slur is an easy cop out. What you are saying is, if I am understanding you right, is that authoritarian Leftists aren't leftists. I'm sure they would disagree but I am a libertarian Leftist so I must be in lols

Oh I understand why Russia is invading Ukraine, and I completely condemn it. What is your understanding of the situation?

That the annexations and occupations of Ukrainian territories are illegal under international law and thus should be condemned, A part of Russian localized imperialism but we have to understand that the West has also created this situation and saying so doesn't or shouldn't make a person a " red tankie" or a " Putin Fanboi " etc etc You know when you hear these things that the people you are talking to lack the independence of thought and maturity to actually discuss stuff

Yeah, all countries are kinda shit. That's why I agree with a lot of anarchist theory. I never said it was a golden nugget of truth.

I have strong anarchist leanings too and have tried to explain to people, that are ridiculously claiming that I miss the old USSR , that I would have been one of the first people killed after Lenin seized power. But name callers gotta double down

Nope. That's why I read leftist news sources too. Not fascist propaganda outlets like RT.

i read/watch both and try to check if what certain things they say are truthful or not. Reading/watching one side often leads to life in an echo chamber and that ain't good either imo

 

[oneworld2]

I don't have dementia. But I appreciate your concern for my memory.

I'm a proper Leftist, I care.

Yeah, crazy coincidence isn't it. Why do you think they chose to do that right when Russia was conducting their training exercise? You never addressed that. You actually haven't addressed any point regarding the actual situation. You just keep calling me a dumb**** and claiming I don't know anything. You haven't made any arguments yourself. I don't even know what your position is on anything.

That's just the point. The seperatist in the Donbas declared their independence years ago so they haven't waited until now, thus there is no reason to address it.

All's I said was you didn't appear to know when the seperatists declared their independence, stating that they have only just done so, while the recent military exercises were going on

I don't know, I'd certainly argue the point with Chomsky if he was here.

Have a bag ready for your arse imo But kudos for taking the challenge even though he isn't here.

Seeing as that is a little difficult, why don't you argue your position instead? Should be pretty easy seeing as how ignorant I am.

I am ok with that and didn't take it well when you decided to be arbiter of who is Left and who ain't. Just that I am going out soon so will pick things up tomorrow.

Yeah Chomsky is a pretty cool dude.

But a massive critic of the hypocrisy within the West and ardent critic of Western imperialism, That was your criteria for ousting Leftists remember?

I agree, btw he is a cool dude

 

[Nomad4Ever]

The " Red Tankie" slur is an easy cop out. What you are saying is, if I am understanding you right, is that authoritarian Leftists aren't leftists. I'm sure they would disagree but I am a libertarian Leftist so I must be in lols

I'm not even sure why you opened up so antagonistic? Do you think people that defend Assad, deny China's genocides, deny the USSR's genocides, and justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine are leftists? Because I've literally argued with people that are "totally leftists" then they tell me that holodomor never happened, or that homosexuality is an element of Western bourgeoisie degeneracy or some shit. I'm 100% fine with calling them red fascists.

I have strong anarchist leanings too and have tried to explain to people, that are ridiculously claiming that I miss the old USSR , that I would have been one of the first people killed after Lenin seized power. But name callers gotta double down

Sadly an eternal struggle.

That the annexations and occupations of Ukrainian territories are illegal under international law and thus should be condemned,

I mean I don't really care that they are illegal. I'd condemn them even if it wasn't illegal.

A part of Russian localized imperialism but we have to understand that the West has also created this situation and saying so doesn't or shouldn't make a person a " red tankie" or a " Putin Fanboi " etc etc You know when you hear these things that the people you are talking to lack the independence of thought and maturity to actually discuss stuff

Can you elaborate on why you believe the West created this situation?

 

[Nomad4Ever]

That's just the point. The seperatist in the Donbas declared their independence years ago so they haven't waited until now, thus there is no reason to address it.

My point in my original post was that clearly Russia's "training exercises" were always an extremely unclever ruse.

I am ok with that and didn't take it well when you decided to be arbiter of who is Left and who ain't.

Again, do you think people that defend Assad and deny the genocides committed by the USSR and China are leftists? I've argued with people that claim the USSR had to Gulag the gays because of Western cultural influences or something. Those are the kind of people we were complaining about. Not everyone that has ever criticized the USA or the West.

But a massive critic of the hypocrisy within the West and ardent critic of Western imperialism

Good. That's why he's a cool dude.

That was your criteria for ousting Leftists remember?

My "criteria" was people who blindly defend anything an geopolitical enemy of the USA does just because they are a geopolitical enemy of the USA.