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Springfield Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

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Grant

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

How about the fact the not every Muslim is a terrorist, no matter what asinine thing you believe. How about the fact millions of Muslims are not part of Al-Qaeda or other militant Islamic group. Since the vast majority of Muslims reject Al-Qaeda ideology, it would moronic to assume that those same Muslims actually adhere to that ideology (like you suggest with that inane Kool-Aid comparison).

You've made several claims here which are unsupported by any evidence. They're just your opinion.

If the "vast majority" of Muslims are against terrorism, and that would be hundreds of millions, where are they? How do you manage to keep hundreds of millions of them silent?

Have you seen or heard millions of Muslims condemning the 9/11 victory mosque so as not to offend the "vast majority" of the American people?

I haven't even heard one.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

You surrendered to fear and hatred, blaming more than a billion people for the actions of a few.

No no no no NO!

As I said above, it's the RELIGION and it's FIRED-UP MANIACS I'm after. Good, peaceful people are OUT of line of my torpedo tubes!
 

Degreez

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

It's far more than just 9/11, death penalty for gays, chopping off arms, stoning woman to death, legal rape of woman, I can go on and on, but these are all normal parts of Islamic nations, pretending just a few bad apples is the problem is niave.

Many Christian militant groups in Africa kill homosexuals, rape women, hack people to death, etc. Can I associate those people with others who do not act like them one bit merely because they share the same religion? Because that's what you're doing, and it's a logical fallacy. I know the Texas education system is horrible (I mean you actually think you're a Libertarian), but this what you are engaging in:

Association fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once you don't engage in fallacious reasoning, you might construct an argument that is not inherently flawed.
 

TacticalEvilDan

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

Right, I'm going o reply in big shouty letters, as it seems you seem rather deaf to my pleas for evidence to back up your 'holohoaxing'!

Right, because yelling at someone who doesn't agree with you, as if the problem is that they can't hear you, is just so brilliant. :lol:

AND YOUR EVIDENCE FOR THAT IS.........

::drum roll::

YOUR OWN WORDS.

::rimshot::

YOU asking evidence of ME? Despite the wide range or articles, interviews and documentaries and such which I've linked-to across the months and this topic, which you can't be bothered to read?

You're askin' for someone to smack you on the legs boy!

Oh yes, please, because of course violence is the solution when you're not getting your way. RoP Ackbar! :lol:

AAAAAGH! For God's sake liberal!

doublefacepalm_large.jpg


These Muslims interviewed said they wanted their fascist Sharia dictatorship IMPOSED! Got that, IMPOSED!

Right, which is anecdotal evidence, like I've been saying . . . and saying . . . and saying . . .

And what's more, across the Muslim world, Sharia incorporates stoning, amputation, lashing and honour killing. Sex outside marriage, stealing trinkets, naming teddy bears Muhammad or drinking whisky are some of the 'crimes' commonly punished with these methods and advocated by Muslims living under those variables.

Islam: Governing Under Sharia - Council on Foreign Relations

There is no one code of Sharia law.

AND WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE I'M WRONG?!

You mean your own words? Or the fact that there's no one Sharia law? Or the fact that you keep bringing up ancedotal evidence as your mainstay? Or the fact that the actual source for the survey that other fellow quoted returns a 404?

:lol:
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

Many Christian militant groups in Africa kill homosexuals, rape women, hack people to death, etc.


Did JESUS order their murder?

NO?

Did Muhammad order the killing of Jews for example?

YEP!


Anyone can commit atrocities saying 'God says so'. The Prophet, an actual man, giving the orders is a lot harder to wiggle free from.
 
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Degreez

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

You've made several claims here which are unsupported by any evidence. They're just your opinion.

If the "vast majority" of Muslims are against terrorism, and that would be hundreds of millions, where are they? How do you manage to keep hundreds of millions of them silent?

Have you seen or heard millions of Muslims condemning the 9/11 victory mosque so as not to offend the "vast majority" of the American people?

I haven't even heard one.
Since you choose to be obtuse, I will only say this once:

Someone's silence on a subject is not the equivalent of them advocating that subject.

This is your argument:
You have been silent on the numerous civilian deaths caused by drone targets in Pakistan. You support the killing of civilians!

Come back when you can construct in argument that is not engaged in fallacious reasoning and is not inherently flawed.
 
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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

Just because I feel I have to say it. Religious dogma is far and away the worst infection ever to plague the human race. It spreads and grows like a cancer, eating away at people's brains and turning them into mindless soulless creatures who have no thought except to do as the cancer tells them. As soon as you let a dogma begin to control you life, you cease to be what you should be. This goes for christian dogma, muslim dogma, judaic dogma..and every other damn dogma out there. Reading these arguments and seeing people turn against people all in the name of, or to speak out against some god or another, truly makes me ill in my heart.

Hopping down off soap box. Have a nice day.
 

Deuce

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

No no no no NO!

As I said above, it's the RELIGION and it's FIRED-UP MANIACS I'm after. Good, peaceful people are OUT of line of my torpedo tubes!

Yes. "The religion." That's the problem. You've bought into all the bull**** about how Islam requires its followers to do all sorts of terrible things. Christianity has some pretty bizzare things in it too. The Old Testament is even worse, is Judaism a hateful religion? Why, their books says you have to stone people to death for all sorts of things, and it specifies the penalty for rape is to marry the woman you raped! THOSE DANG JEWS!

All religions say some crazy ****, because these books were written centuries ago when we were still basically neanderthals. 99.9% of the people in any religion are just as peaceful and levelheaded as you or I. The only difference is, you are against THE RELIGION of Islam but for some reason not Judaism or Christianity.
 

Degreez

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damianvincent

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

You know what? Forget it. You, and people like you, are the reason we lost the War on Terror on September 11th, 2001. You surrendered to fear and hatred, blaming more than a billion people for the actions of a few. You've never done that with any other group. I hope your happy about continuing the cycle of violence and hate.

Facts are the facts, the Muslim community needs to stand up to this barbarity, I do not see it, in fact they celebrate it. We've given them the opportunity to shed the chains of the dictators in their region, and hopfully they choose a path of economic moderization, which hopfully will lead to political moderation, as the needs of career and family take over the will for jihad.

However Islam stands a good chance of ruining those prospects. The Taliban, Al Qeada, groups that threaten to take control with the peoples support.

It's hard not to see Islam as the problem.
 

Grant

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

You know what? Forget it. You, and people like you, are the reason we lost the War on Terror on September 11th, 2001. You surrendered to fear and hatred, blaming more than a billion people for the actions of a few. You've never done that with any other group. I hope your happy about continuing the cycle of violence and hate.

LOL!!

Condemning those who kill homosexuals, murder their daughters, commit international terrorism against many thousands of innocent people. etc., are now being branded as having "hatred". If a group I belonged to was committing these atrocities I'd quit. If i didn't quit it would mean, at a minimum, that I was offering my tacit support.

I suppose you can include me in that lot also because I only want to live in peace with my neighbors, and believe that every person should enjoy security and personal freedom. That makes me a hater also, huh?
 

Degreez

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

Facts are the facts, the Muslim community needs to stand up to this barbarity, I do not see it, in fact they celebrate it. We've given them the opportunity to shed the chains of the dictators in their region, and hopfully they choose a path of economic moderization, which hopfully will lead to political moderation, as the needs of career and family take over the will for jihad.
You don't see it because you choose not to see it. Go read Tahir al-Qadri's Fatwa on Terrorism. It's 600 pages long and is a complete refutation of terrorism. However, we all know you won't read it because your opinion on the matter will never change. You are forever stuck in your pathetic bias.
However Islam stands a good chance of ruining those prospects. The Taliban, Al Qeada, groups that threaten to take control with the peoples support.
Mind showing me what "peoples" these are that support Al-Qaeda?
It's hard not to see Islam as the problem.
It is for those with common sense.
 

Deuce

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

Facts are the facts, the Muslim community needs to stand up to this barbarity, I do not see it, in fact they celebrate it. We've given them the opportunity to shed the chains of the dictators in their region, and hopfully they choose a path of economic moderization, which hopfully will lead to political moderation, as the needs of career and family take over the will for jihad.

However Islam stands a good chance of ruining those prospects. The Taliban, Al Qeada, groups that threaten to take control with the peoples support.

It's hard not to see Islam as the problem.

Why have you not "stood up" against the barbarity of the KKK? Christian priests molesting children? I haven't seen Americans in the streets protesting that!

You see people celebrating attacks on America. They see Americans burning Qurans. A muslim sitting in his home shaking his head and cursing the evildoers who crashed a plane into a building doesn't make the news, but he's in the vast majority. Besides, there are some legitimate reasons to hate America if you live over there. It's not like the Quran says "DEATH TO AMERICA" in it. We, and by we I mean the entire western world, have this irritating tendency to drop bombs on their cities. That annoys some people, go figure. If Canada dropped a bomb in Detroit, is there any justification you could think of that would make you be ok with it?
 

Grant

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

They say he did.

Evidence for this? And not some out of context quotation. I want to see legit evidence that Muhammad instructed every Muslim to kill Jews.

You're not satisfied with quotes from the Koran then?

What sort of evidence would you accept?
 

hazlnut

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

You know what? Forget it. You, and people like you, are the reason we lost the War on Terror on September 11th, 2001. You surrendered to fear and hatred, blaming more than a billion people for the actions of a few. You've never done that with any other group. I hope you're happy about continuing the cycle of violence and hate.

Brilliant!! Well said.

Some Americans aren't happy unless they have a boogeyman.

I guess all cultures and tribes create 'the other', the enemy or monster to be feared. It unites them in many ways.

The point that R_of_P and others are completely missing is that we should be united behind principles and values that uplift our national character, not this ugliness that drags us down to their level.
 

Grant

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

The point that R_of_P and others are completely missing is that we should be united behind principles and values that uplift our national character, not this ugliness that drags us down to their level.

Drags us down to Islamic levels?
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

Right, because yelling at someone who doesn't agree with you, as if the problem is that they can't hear you, is just so brilliant.

So you're NOT deaf, just truculent! I see...



YOUR OWN WORDS.

My question is the evidence for your statement?! I think you've been put here as a dupe haven't you!



Right, which is anecdotal evidence, like I've been saying . . . and saying . . . and saying . . .

Yes, you say... and say... and say... nothing. Words alright, fashioned (just about) from our English language, but as empty or cliched as the lyrics of anything Boyzone ever released.

Maybe if you took a piece of what I've written, presented it as evidence of a flawed argument... WITH REASON WHY AND EVIDENCE TO RE-ENFORCE... we can actually converse in an intelligent and constructive manner, rather than just trolling each other.

That's cool, but it does age after a while.




There is no one code of Sharia law.

But the atrocities committed under it are common in the places these Muslims were interviewed. Their Sharia IS Sharia.




You mean your own words? Or the fact that there's no one Sharia law?..........

Let's make up an example to make it all nice and big and clear. We can have the playschool-type primary colours splashed about as well if it helps.

I may claim that Champagne and Burgundy wine come all the way from Spain.

You say 'No, it comes from France. And I have a website to prove it, which is here...'


'Hmmm', I say, exploring the website from an established French vinyard magazine. 'Looks like he's right after all'.

And everybody lives happily ever after.
 
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Degreez

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

You're not satisfied with quotes from the Koran then?
Not unless they are put in context (year of revelation, city of revelation, entire surah).
What sort of evidence would you accept?
Degreez said:
I want to see legit evidence that Muhammad instructed every Muslim to kill Jews.
 

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

My :twocents: worth...

While I have read the Qu'ron, I'm not a student of Islam as I am of my Christian faith. So, I can't speak to the Muslim culture here or aborad. What I can say is what we see of Muslim practises and culture in parts of the Middle-East are not what exist in the U.S. Look around you...

When was the last time we saw an American Muslim celebrating the death of near 3,000 of their fellow Americans by dancing in the streets or firing off rounds from semi-automatic weapons in the air as if it were New Years Day? Have you ever saw an American Muslim burn an American flag? I'd be very surprised if any such things have ever happened in America in the 9-years since 9/11/01. My point is very simple and very clear: Radical Islam is not in America. It is over there.

Imam Raul made a very good point during his CNN interview when he tried to explain the significants of separation of church and state. I believe the point he was trying to make is this:

When you allow a religion to be the basis of your legal system, it is very easy to justify immoral acts in the name of God (or whatever name said society escribes to Him). For example, in American our laws are rooted in the Bible based on the moral characteristics of the Ten Commandments. Theft, murder, equal and fair treatment towards our fellow man (neighbors = society), immoral practises (adultry, lying & deception [bearing false witness against another], covetous) - all are acts that most societies find immoral and create social disorder. The difference were U.S. laws are concerned is we don't take the religious "justices" as absolute. We understand that stoning a woman for adultrey is "cruel" and "unjust". For, she didn't commit the adulterous behaviour alone. We don't cut off a man's hand for stealing. That would be "cruel" and "unjust". There are other ways to have the theif "pay" for his crime. We don't kill a man for associating himself with another man just because he practises another religion. That would be "unjust". The man is entitled to his opinion and is free to befriend anyone he wishes. The Muslim world, specifically in those parts of the world where these strict adherences to Islam are followed, needs to learn these lessons. Unfortunately, many Muslim leaders in the Middle-East are stuck in these old teachings. They could learn from our American Muslims.

I would not be in favor of burning the Qu'ron any more than I am in favor of burning the American flag to signify my discontentment. There are other ways to do this. But first and foremost, we need to open up a honest dialog w/the Muslim world particularly here at home to understand them better. But most of all, we have to remember that the Muslims here in this country are our fellow Americans. They are our firemen, policemen, nurses, doctors, surgeons, teachers, engineers, receptionist, cooks, waiters, electricians, sanitation workers, machinist and neighbors. They did us no harm. In fact, some of the Muslim faith died on 9/11 as well, working in the same buildings, rushing to the scene as First Responders, trying to comprehend what happened on that tragic day and why just as everyone else. We must not ever forget that because the moment we do, "radical Islam controls the discourse" of what it truly means to be an American.
 
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Grant

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

Why have you not "stood up" against the barbarity of the KKK? Christian priests molesting children? I haven't seen Americans in the streets protesting that!

Many Christians , and others, stood up against the KKK, and anyone molesting children eventually faced justice. You do know that Muslims, inspired by Mohammed, are still "marrying" little girls, don't you?
You see people celebrating attacks on America. They see Americans burning Qurans. [/QUOTE

Where have you seen Americans burning Korans?
]A muslim sitting in his home shaking his head and cursing the evildoers who crashed a plane into a building doesn't make the news, but he's in the vast majority.

Then show the stat!
Besides, there are some legitimate reasons to hate America if you live over there. It's not like the Quran says "DEATH TO AMERICA" in it. We, and by we I mean the entire western world, have this irritating tendency to drop bombs on their cities.

You do recall who attacked the USA on 9/11 right? Just what are you talking about here?
That annoys some people, go figure. If Canada dropped a bomb in Detroit, is there any justification you could think of that would make you be ok with it?

If Canada ever did such a thing ever mobile Canadian would be devastated by such an event, and would immediately be out in the streets to protest.

I hope you're not equating Canadians with Muslims.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

I want to see legit evidence that Muhammad instructed every Muslim to kill Jews.


Easily done:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...astor-plans-burn-quran-10.html#post1058978145


YouTube - Muhammed Said Kill All The Jews




TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Verses of Violence

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."



muslim kill commands

MUHAMMAD: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him. (Sahih Muslim book 41, no. 6985)



.....And so on!



They're only following Islamic policy........... Hamas: Jews has to be exterminated - Likud of Holland (Contains further Islamic instruction to murder Jews specifically and without true cause.)






Going back to source is about as legitimate as it gets. And Google around for your own Koran verses to confirm!
 
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Grant

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

But first and foremost, we need to open up a honest dialog w/the Muslim world particularly here at home to understand them better.

That was done immediately following 9/11 when President George Bush attended a mosque to demonstrate that there was no grudge against the "Religion of Peace". Since then there have been more terrorist attacks in the democracies and further foiled attacks. It is time, it seems, for Muslims to understand Americans, just as you describe those Muslims living in the United States understand. Good behavior should be rewarded and bad behavior punished. But it must be a combination of the two.

We must not ever forget that because the moment we do, "radical Islam controls the discourse" of what it truly means to be an American.

Any part of radical Islam is unacceptable, and that must always be made very clear.
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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Re: (New) Pastor Plans To Burn Quran

Bloody hell Grant, you're landing punch after solid punch!

But then, with the truth on your side you have no need to breathlessly deny things and resort to bluster or make-believe!
 
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