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Spreading Islam by the Sword

What do you hope to gain from copy and pasting surahs? Half of them im ignoring seeing its Scholars and Hadiths.

You ignore any peaceful verses within the hadith and Qu'rans. You ignore that Muslims celebrate a day of Ashura, that Prophet Mohammed's own wife was not a Muslim.
If you don't acknowledge that, i see no reason as to why i have to defend my religion against someone who focuses only on negatives.
 
There couldn't be more. I thought there were only a few quotes. Seems to be more than just a few. Seems the Islamic text are rife with examples of intolerance.

And yet i haven't killed any jews yet ... damn, maybe i need to re read the Qu'ran
 
Lol, i do love the Hadiths .. Bukhary no less.

Yes, in the context of the entire Qu'ran. That is a minority.
I do not see why you are so intent on Islam.


I am so intent on Islam because Islam is the idology of those who have declared war on my country in the name of there god.
 
I am so intent on Islam because Islam is the idology of those who have declared war on my country in the name of there god.

Im not going to deny there is anti semetism within the Muslim world.
But it is not because of the Qu'ran and Islam.

If Islam declared war on Israel and with it, all Muslims. Then more of your people would be dead.
 
What do you hope to gain from copy and pasting surahs? Half of them im ignoring seeing its Scholars and Hadiths.

You ignore any peaceful verses within the hadith and Qu'rans. You ignore that Muslims celebrate a day of Ashura, that Prophet Mohammed's own wife was not a Muslim.
If you don't acknowledge that, i see no reason as to why i have to defend my religion against someone who focuses only on negatives.


But there are so many negatives. And it is the negatives that are being used by the radicals. The radicals who have declared war on the West.
 
But there are so many negatives. And it is the negatives that are being used by the radicals. The radicals who have declared war on the West.

There are negatives in every religion and i agree, some verses are being misused to justify it.

Just be glad this "war" has not gone mainstream.
 
Here is a declaration of war a fatwa by those who many muslims worldwide consider a hero, Osama bin Laden. On febuary 23, 1998 he issued a fatwa to declare a holy war, or jihad, against the West and Israel.

Praise be to God, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but God is worshipped, God who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.

The Arabian Peninsula has never -- since God made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas -- been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.

No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.

If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.

Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.

So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors. Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.

All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life." On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."

This is in addition to the words of Almighty God: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? -- women and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"

We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.

Almighty God said: "O ye who believe, give your response to God and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."

Almighty God also says: "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things."

Almighty God also says: "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."

So it began, holy war on the West and Isreal. Of course it had actually begun long before 1998 but this is the declaration of war that was not only signed by al Qaeda. It was signed by the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and many others. So I ask you, should we (the West and Israel) just roll over and die or should we stand up and fight for our freedom? I say we must fight.
 
Yes, thats very good :roll:
Get us a Fatwa over 10 years old.

Well Israel at that time occupied both areas of Palestine and was killing Palestinians.
Perhaps if Jews don't oppress, kill and block Palestinians like animals they wouldn't have any enemies.

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip

Damn right.
Al Asqa and Mecca [which was occupied by Americans soldiers] is Muslim territory.
Al Asqa is under Jewish rule :/
 
Yes, thats very good :roll:
Get us a Fatwa over 10 years old.

Well Israel at that time occupied both areas of Palestine and was killing Palestinians.
Perhaps if Jews don't oppress, kill and block Palestinians like animals they wouldn't have any enemies.



Damn right.
Al Asqa and Mecca [which was occupied by Americans soldiers] is Muslim territory.
Al Asqa is under Jewish rule :/

You know that America was in Saudi Arabia at the invitation of the Saudi royal family. And we were there to liberate Kuwait from Sadam. So why didn't they fly planes into the Saudi Royals palace.
 
Damn right.
Al Asqa and Mecca [which was occupied by Americans soldiers] is Muslim territory.
Al Asqa is under Jewish rule :/


Doesn't this pretty much blow your " I am a peaceful Muslim" position all to hell? Damn right is a pretty good indication that you do support murder and terrorists actions in any country as long is it kills the right people. I mean considering your damn right attitude towards the order to kill it does seem to indicate that you do believe it is your duty to kill the enemies of Islam where ever possible also.

And if a few innocents get killed in the process then oh well can't make an omelet with out breaking a few eggs eh.

Moe
 
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Doesn't this pretty much blow your " I am a peaceful Muslim" position all to hell? Damn right is a pretty good indication that you do support murder and terrorists actions in any country as long is it kills the right people. I mean considering your damn right attitude towards the order to kill it does seem to indicate that you do believe it is your duty to kill the enemies of Islam where ever possible also.

And if a few innocents get killed in the process then oh well can't make an omelet with out breaking a few eggs eh.

Moe

No damn right that it is Muslim land.
I have no enemies, in Islam or outside of it and even if someone in my religion tried to make me hurt someone. I'd refuse.
I don't do violence.

If i truley was that way, i wouldn't be so squeamish over civilian casulties in warfare. There is no 'oh well' when lives are taken.
 
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You know that America was in Saudi Arabia at the invitation of the Saudi royal family. And we were there to liberate Kuwait from Sadam. So why didn't they fly planes into the Saudi Royals palace.

Yes, because i heard the Royal family are loved ... *cough*
And you ignore Al Asqa.
Do you not think it is Muslim land?
 
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Not really, Muslim mount as well.
Besides, you'd think they'd be grateful. Its one of the most beautiful spots in Israel.

al_aqsa_mosque.jpg
 
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why would they be grateful for gentiles defiling the ancient site of their temple? Although true the mount is held in high regard by Muslims the reason for the Mosque is not entirely religious.

Muslims know that as long as the mosque is there it is impossible for the Jews to rebuild their temple. Much along the lines of the Muslems closing the east gate in defiance of the Jewish prophecy that the jewish messiah shall eneter through that gate.

Moe
 
Because it is one of the most beautiful sites within Israel, that is undeniable.

I think that is absolutely incorrect. Muslims when this mosque was built on the al-Haram al-Sharif we did not think 'Oh haha, this is so the Jews can never rebuild the temple'
It wasn't us who burned down their temples twice but it has been in the past Jews who have attempted to destroy our Mosque in order for the temple to be rebuilt.

My Mosque in Jerusalem will always stand there, unless the Jews deliberately blow it up then i have nothing to worry about.
The problem with this is is that the Muslims have control over the mount and no Non Muslims can step foot in our holy area likewise Muslims cannot touch the wailing wall. It just isn't done and as long as there is a movement by Jews and Christians to rebuild the temple and thus destroying our holy site. I'd like to keep it that way where no Non Muslim has the opportunity to destroy the beauty that is Al Asqa
 
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Ignorance Of Fools

"Ignorance Of Fools"
No damn right that it is Muslim land.

My Mosque in Jerusalem will always stand there,
Hejaz is the land of ishmael, that is all.

You are neither married to a member of the tribe of ishmael, nor are you a patriarchal descendant.

You are illegitimate.
 
Come now laila surly you know that the Mosque and the sealing of the east gate are also symbols of Muslim belief that Allah had conquered Judaism.

Even though Muslims may not have had a direct hand in the burning of the temple will you deny the muslim belief that all things are by the will of Allah and Allah's wills is that Islam becomes the supreme religion?

The restoration of Israel in 48 shows that the muslim belief that Allah had given them victory over the Jews is just a little premature it seems.

Moe
 
Re: Ignorance Of Fools

You are illegitimate.

I claimed to be a direct descendent? How stupid.
Its my Mosque because as a Muslim it is my 3rd most holy place :roll:
 
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Come now laila surly you know that the Mosque and the sealing of the east gate are also symbols of Muslim belief that Allah had conquered Judaism.

The restoration of Israel in 48 shows that the muslim belief that Allah had given them victory over the Jews is just a little premature it seems.

Moe

May not?
Muslims HAD no direct hand on the temple's destruction. Don't hate because the Romans owned the Jews and ruined their temple.

Its premature for Jews to claim victory.
Muslims has had that land for hundreds, thousand years. Muslims beat the Christians for Jerusalem in the crusades after 88 years of Christian soverignty. Don't be too sure what the future holds

Not really, Allah or Islam has no need to conquer Judaism. Its only 14 million followers, hardly a threat to the 1.2 billion and growing.
Al Asqa is there as a sign of worship for Muslims, the mount is as important to us as it is the Christians and Jews. So for Jews to assume it's only theirs is arrogant and no, the temple will never be rebuilt because the mosque will never be destroyed.
 
Non-Familiar

"Non-Familiar"
I claimed to be a direct descendent? How stupid.
Its my Mosque because as a Muslim it is my 3rd most holy place :roll:
Did you?
 
I do not hate Muslims laila. I hate all the killing of innocents that your religion supports and the genocidal policies that your religon has concerning the Jews.

But you do acknowledge that the land Israel occupies has been passed from conqueror to conqueror. As what happened to the Jews in 70ad, The Muslims lost that land because of WW 1. It was given to the British. It has not been Muslim land for 90 years. The UN gave the land to the Jews. They gained it politically. And then were immediatly attacked by combined muslim forces which they defeated in battle.

So they gained it politcally and by right of conquest. Your side lost both poltically and militarily in 1948. In 1967 they again defeated the Muslims in battle and siezed the temple mount. It is theirs. The Muslims do not have any right to even 1 square inch of Israeli soil including the temple mount.

Considering that the Muslims have been defeated every time they try to exterminate the little band of 14 million maybe you should be a little more concerned about them and their capabilities in war than you are right now.

That seems to be part of the reason for all the problems over there. No matter how many times Israel beats the crap of the Muslims the Muslims still think someday they will get lucky and finally exterminate the Jews. You have not been able to do it politically. You have not been able to do it militarily and you have not been able to do it through terrorists actions. You would think that the Muslims would finally get the message that the Jews are there to stay whether the Muslims like it or not

Moe
 
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It is not the text that creates Islamic Fundamentalism, it is the people and their currupt leaders. It is oil.

If you think about it, without oil, a lot of these leaders wouldn't have so much power to spread their radical views.

Also, for most of the history of Islam, the Muslims were one of the most tolerant to Jews (and Christians). But against polytheists - yea, they were pissed at.
 
It is not the text that creates Islamic Fundamentalism, it is the people and their currupt leaders. It is oil.

If you think about it, without oil, a lot of these leaders wouldn't have so much power to spread their radical views.

Also, for most of the history of Islam, the Muslims were one of the most tolerant to Jews (and Christians). But against polytheists - yea, they were pissed at.

If they were tolerant they would not have invaded their neighbors in the first place. As to the oil, The oil is not the reason for the regional hatreds. Regardless of oil or no oil the region would still be a war zone.

They would just be armed with clubs and swords instead of AK-47's and RPG's

Moe
 
If they were tolerant they would not have invaded their neighbors in the first place. As to the oil, The oil is not the reason for the regional hatreds. Regardless of oil or no oil the region would still be a war zone.

They would just be armed with clubs and swords instead of AK-47's and RPG's

Moe

First off, my oil comment was just a theory, I thought of it on the top of my head.

It just seems too fitting, that all the oil nations are Islamic and what some people think are corrupt. Why did Islamic belief flourish in the Persian Gulf region (besides the fact that it was the location of Muhammad and where he preached, why did people listen...maybe leaders' influence) where there is so much oil? perhaps oil is part of the problem
If leaders weren't so corrupt and wealthy they might not have had the power to be such forceful tyrants and impose such radical ideas without rebellion.
it's just an idea/theory...by no means fact, as I don't have much to back it up except a bit of reason


Regarding my comment on tolerance, you should check up om Islamic history. The Abbasid Dynasty, was in fact a very tolerant dynasty for its time. Islamic dynasties in the past have been tolerant, more than most.
 
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