Speaking in Tongues

[American]

...Or to put it in Anglo-Saxon, it's utter bollocks. Glossolalia is simple learned behaviour, uttering a stream of word-like meaningless syllables. (in the language of the speaker)

Is this an example of liberal tolerance?

 

[Wake]

Here is an example that it is not just "utter nonsense" to you. When people recieve the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, they feel a euphoric feeling, as though God's Spirit has entered in, which it does. They... cannot explain the feeling because it is inexplainable. I ask that you ask any who have recieved what it felt like, and I am sure you will hear like responses. I've asked different people from different settings who recieved it what it felt like, then compared results, and found them to be the same. It is evidence that it is not just words, but a Spritual indwelling; there is also a scripture about how people must "keep their lamps/lanterns filled with oil while waiting for the bride/groom to come", that scriptures speaks of staying filled with the Holy Ghost and not backsliding, which some do.

 

[Thorgasm]

I don't believe it is real. I went to a church a few times like this where they laid hands on people and used "prayer-speak".

People believe what they want to believe.

How would one know if someone were faking it so not to stand out as not being full of the Spirit?

 

[Wake]

There are millions of people in the USA that Speak in Tongues. You would have to say my parents and friends are all purposely acting/lying. I suppose you think it one mass conspiracy, what with you thinking it all a deceitful act.

 

[Thorgasm]

There are millions of people in the USA that Speak in Tongues. You would have to say my parents and friends are all purposely acting/lying. I suppose you think it one mass conspiracy, what with you thinking it all a deceitful act.

Who are you directing this post at?

 

[Wake]

Who are you directing this post at?

"How would one know if someone were faking it so not to stand out as not being full of the Spirit?"

Not directed at you personally, but the fact that many non-believers think it is all an act.

 

[Thorgasm]

"How would one know if someone were faking it so not to stand out as not being full of the Spirit?"

Not directed at you personally, but the fact that many non-believers think it is all an act.

What else are non-believers supposed to think?

It would be one thing if every Church experienced this, but it is localized to specific church congregations.

 

[FluffyNinja]

There are millions of people in the USA that Speak in Tongues. You would have to say my parents and friends are all purposely acting/lying. I suppose you think it one mass conspiracy, what with you thinking it all a deceitful act.

There are also millions of people who've seen UFO's or have been abducted by extra-terrestrials? What's your point?

 

[Guy Incognito]

Much like alien abuductions, glossolalia is pretty well scientifically accounted for as a psychological phenomenon. It doesn't mean Pentecostals are being deceptive or dishonest, it just means that it isn't a supernatural phenomenon, it is a natural one.

 

[FluffyNinja]

Here is an example that it is not just "utter nonsense" to you. When people recieve the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, they feel a euphoric feeling, as though God's Spirit has entered in, which it does. They... cannot explain the feeling because it is inexplainable. I ask that you ask any who have recieved what it felt like, and I am sure you will hear like responses. I've asked different people from different settings who recieved it what it felt like, then compared results, and found them to be the same. It is evidence that it is not just words, but a Spritual indwelling; there is also a scripture about how people must "keep their lamps/lanterns filled with oil while waiting for the bride/groom to come", that scriptures speaks of staying filled with the Holy Ghost and not backsliding, which some do.

I'm not arguing the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit - I believe in that. You've switched gears. I was simply questioning whether, in your opinion, one could have a true and complete conversion through Christ, WITHOUT the speaking in tongues episode - on this I disagree with you, as does the Word of God. :shrug:

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- Why have I heard discussions of people from foreign nations that can hear segments of their language in those who Speak in Tongues?

I first came across actual events of "speaking in tongues" when I was invited to Pentecostalist churches in Nigeria - I found the whole thing uncomfortable and felt it was a sham.
I'd read the bible when I was quite young and the passages in Acts seemed to me to describe the miracle of people suddenly having the gift of being able to speak to others in their own tongue. What I saw / see when I see glossolalia is (to me) something entirely different - people uttering a variety of sounds that nobody else on this planet could possibly understand.

It would be a far more "genuine" miracle to me if Pentecostalists suddenly started speaking in a completely foreign language like Hottentot or Xhosa or Han Chinese. That's just my opinion - what I see (to me) seems an easy cop-out: to be able to ramble incoherently and feel that I am somehow seeing someone talk in the language of angels.

--Will you say they are "drunk", as was said 2,000 years ago?

No, but the biblical passage doesn't just say the speakers were full of "sweet wine" - it says this -

Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 “And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9 “Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.” 12 And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others were mocking and saying, “They are full of sweet wine.”

In all the times I've seen Glossolalia, I've never once heard anyone say anything about speaking in tongues that is like the first part of this part of the bible. i.e. I haven't seen for an example a native Chinese guy suddenly start speaking to a Hottentot in the Hottentot's click language when it was provable that he couldn't speak it before.

To use the examples of your video - have any peoples anywhere in the world come forward to say they recognise the utterances made by anyone in the video as their own language?

 

[Wake]

It's not a collection of unintelligible sounds, but the infilling of God's Spirit. Have any of you talked with those who have recieved, or reasoned with them that it is a must? It is baptism through water and fire (God's Spirit). To repent of your sins earnestly and then be baptized, you exit the water Speaking in Tongues. I have witnessed such; and know enough to understand that it is required. If you don't believe so, then that is your choice and your matter once you face the White Throne Judgment. I myself do noe Speak in Tongues, but I know enough that my soul aches to recieve the indwelling of His Spirit which always includes Speaking in Tongues as proof of the indwelling. To recieve God's Spirit always entails Speaking in Tongues, but there are other gifts of the Holy Spirit that can be obtained in addition to the necessary first gift.

If you have not deeply discoursed and associated with those who recieved the Holy Ghost, then honestly, you can only go by texts and indirect commentaries. I have known and associated with them for over 7 years; not including my family members who have it.

 

[MaggieD]

It's not a collection of unintelligible sounds, but the infilling of God's Spirit. Have any of you talked with those who have recieved, or reasoned with them that it is a must? It is baptism through water and fire (God's Spirit). To repent of your sins earnestly and then be baptized, you exit the water Speaking in Tongues. I have witnessed such; and know enough to understand that it is required. If you don't believe so, then that is your choice and your matter once you face the White Throne Judgment. I myself do noe Speak in Tongues, but I know enough that my soul aches to recieve the indwelling of His Spirit which always includes Speaking in Tongues as proof of the indwelling. To recieve God's Spirit always entails Speaking in Tongues, but there are other gifts of the Holy Spirit that can be obtained in addition to the necessary first gift.

If you have not deeply discoursed and associated with those who recieved the Holy Ghost, then honestly, you can only go by texts and indirect commentaries. I have known and associated with them for over 7 years; not including my family members who have it.

Why is it that religious people draw hard and fast lines to keep other people out? Just how Godly is that?? If you believe that people are infused with the Holy Spirit when they speak in tongues, and that's the only way to salvation, more power to ya'. Who cares?

But speaking in tongues? From my perspective? Ridiculous. It's nothing more than delusional groupthink. Absurd.

If there is a God, he's laughing his ass off at what religions of this world have done to blaspheme his central message of love.

 

[Thorgasm]

It's not a collection of unintelligible sounds, but the infilling of God's Spirit. Have any of you talked with those who have recieved, or reasoned with them that it is a must? It is baptism through water and fire (God's Spirit). To repent of your sins earnestly and then be baptized, you exit the water Speaking in Tongues. I have witnessed such; and know enough to understand that it is required. If you don't believe so, then that is your choice and your matter once you face the White Throne Judgment. I myself do noe Speak in Tongues, but I know enough that my soul aches to recieve the indwelling of His Spirit which always includes Speaking in Tongues as proof of the indwelling. To recieve God's Spirit always entails Speaking in Tongues, but there are other gifts of the Holy Spirit that can be obtained in addition to the necessary first gift.

If you have not deeply discoursed and associated with those who recieved the Holy Ghost, then honestly, you can only go by texts and indirect commentaries. I have known and associated with them for over 7 years; not including my family members who have it.

This is my point. It looks like a dogmatic "requirement" specific to some sects of Christianity. If it were truly required, why would God choose to imbue the Holy Spirit in some congregations over individuals accross the spectrum?

I do know people that practice this. They are nice people. I don't believe that their unintelligible vocalizations are proof of indwelling. They may be so open to the idea that they have convinced themselves that they have the Spirit in them.

If you believe this then you must be quite troubled by the fact that you don't speak in tongues. What do you think you are lacking?

 

[Wake]

Please feel free to think such. I am more inclined to believe those that have recieved the Holy Ghost and know what it is and what it means. The Bible never stated the path to salvation was wide. You would have to experience these people and perhaps even try to recieve it; perhaps that would shake your worldview something fierce.

 

[Wake]

This is my point. It looks like a dogmatic "requirement" specific to some sects of Christianity. If it were truly required, why would God choose to imbue the Holy Spirit in some congregations over individuals accross the spectrum?

Wolves in sheep's clothing. Nothing more, nothing less. It was told in the Bible that many think themselves saved but are lost; Speaking in Tongues is true evidence of the indwelling of God's Spirit. Even now there are those who call themselves Christians who view the Bible only as a "work of inspiration" and a guide to "be nice" to people. That has everything to do with this.

I do know people that practice this. They are nice people.

Indeed. It is as thought their personality has changed remarkably. I have witnessed it firsthand that once God's Spirit enters in, a change in one's moral soul happens.

I don't believe that their unintelligible vocalizations are proof of indwelling. They may be so open to the idea that they have convinced themselves that they have the Spirit in them.

Though I disagree with you I respect you. Honestly I don't think they are so convinced that they decieve themselves. Once you know, you know. That sort of surreal spiritual event transcends doubt.

If you believe this then you must be quite troubled by the fact that you don't speak in tongues. What do you think you are lacking?

I am not troubled. Truthfully, I want to recieve His Spirit, and I am afraid of death and eternal hell. A few times I have felt time slow as those in the Church spoke fervently in the Spirit. A few times, while convicted of my sinfullness, I have went to the altar to repent my sins... yet something sinful in me, a doubt, an internal sin, has prevented me. Knowing my experiences, I strongly desire to recieve and Speak and Tongues; I know of those that took years to recieve. Drunkards and vagabonds who after decades of sin recieved quickly and, truly surreal as it is... thier souls seemed to have changed dramatically. So long as I live, I will continue.

Perhaps you think me insane. Why is it then that I can internally rationalize and understand the issues I face both internally and externally? Even in politics, I realize that considering people insane, over being misguided, is wrong for all sides to do. Tangent aside, I am quite sane and capable of understanding my own shortcomings.

 

[MaggieD]

I am not troubled. Truthfully, I want to recieve His Spirit, and I am afraid of death and eternal hell. A few times I have felt time slow as those in the Church spoke fervently in the Spirit. A few times, while convicted of my sinfullness, I have went to the altar to repent my sins... yet something sinful in me, a doubt, an internal sin, has prevented me. Knowing my experiences, I strongly desire to recieve and Speak and Tongues; I know of those that took years to recieve. Drunkards and vagabonds who after decades of sin recieved quickly and, truly surreal as it is... thier souls seemed to have changed dramatically. So long as I live, I will continue.

Perhaps you think me insane. Why is it then that I can internally rationalize and understand the issues I face both internally and externally? Even in politics, I realize that considering people insane, over being misguided, is wrong for all sides to do. Tangent aside, I am quite sane and capable of understanding my own shortcomings.

I feel sorry for you.

 

[Wake]

I feel sorry for you.

Well, I wish you the best. You needn't be mean.

 

[Thorgasm]

Wake, I don't think you or the tongue speaking people are insane. I believe that people believe what they want to believe. I view it along the same line as "My husband isn't an alcoholic." despite not being able to control his drinking but he does go to work everyday instead of living under an overpass. Or "I know so and so and they would never do such a thing." Call it the "love is blind" theory. Our cognitive dissonance can cause us to ignore some things and blow out of proportion other things. To justify this, we create rationalizations.

To the people that you noticed a marked difference in, whether it is reality or not, it is working for them. I don't begrudge them for their belief that they are host to the Holy Spirit. I don't understand where it is said that this is required and always happens. I thought the New Testament was a new covenant and Jesus is the way to salvation.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

What do you know of it? First is the baptism of water, then the repentance of sin and the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

In the book of Acts, the apostles were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in Tongues over 2,000 years ago. They do so today, and are ridiculed just as those in the past.

People say they lie or act; that it is all a facade. My parents have it, as well as some of my friends. I suppose they are facadal? That the hundreds of thousands of them are facadal?

Why have I heard discussions of people from foreign nations that can hear segments of their language in those who Speak in Tongues?

Here is a link I found on a liberal-biased news show that discussed the issue: YouTube - Speaking in Tongues Medical Study proves Holy Spirit praying I tell you this news show is not biased for those who Speak in Tongues.

Will you say they are "drunk", as was said 2,000 years ago?

I want an honest and mature discussion on this issue. What do you think of this?

I've heard of it - and I think nothing seriously of it.

 

[MaggieD]

Well, I wish you the best. You needn't be mean.

I wasn't being mean, Wake. I was being sincere. You said this:

Originally Posted by Wake
I am not troubled. Truthfully, I want to recieve His Spirit, and I am afraid of death and eternal hell. A few times I have felt time slow as those in the Church spoke fervently in the Spirit. A few times, while convicted of my sinfullness, I have went to the altar to repent my sins... yet something sinful in me, a doubt, an internal sin, has prevented me. Knowing my experiences, I strongly desire to recieve and Speak and Tongues; I know of those that took years to recieve. Drunkards and vagabonds who after decades of sin recieved quickly and, truly surreal as it is... thier souls seemed to have changed dramatically. So long as I live, I will continue.

Perhaps you think me insane. Why is it then that I can internally rationalize and understand the issues I face both internally and externally? Even in politics, I realize that considering people insane, over being misguided, is wrong for all sides to do. Tangent aside, I am quite sane and capable of understanding my own shortcomings.

You sound as if you believe you are falling short. That you are missing something because you can't speak in tongues. Believing in a greater power isn't about speaking in tongues. It's about living a Godly life. Believing in a greater power isn't about chastising yourself for your religious shortcomings. It's about celebrating your successes. Believing is believing. Believing is, in and of itself, a reason for celebration. Yet you sound as though you are unhappy with yourself because of your great faith. Forgive yourself, Wake. Christ did.

 

[Black Dog]

Only one time have I seen with my own eyes what looked to be true speaking in tongues. A woman started speaking in what sounded like a language, don't know which as there are many dead languages. It made the hair stand up on my back.

Then someone across the room started translating into basically "I am the lord thy God, in love, and I am with you always."

To many times I see people just saying literally "Habala, habala, hablah" and they think they are speaking in tongues.

 

[marduc]

Wake.. your latest posts make it seem that you are legitimately tormented because you cannot speak in tongues..

This goes back to what I said about the mind creating behaviors and fooling a person into believing something to attempt to overcome this huge burden you are creating for it. You want this to happen, even to the point where you feel you need it to happen, and you are incomplete or lacking if it does not happen. At some point you will want it, or need it so bad that it will happen, and you will be euphoric and feel as if you were filled with the spirit, but not because you were actually filled with the spirit, but because this huge self imposed burden is suddenly lifted from you.

 

[Wake]

Well, I certainly don't see it that way. I know what should be done for my salvation, and so long as I have breath I will continue. It is God's Spirit, the path to salvation; my various experiences while watching and observing such hidden ordeals solidifies my resolve. It is not torture; it is the mere solemn recognition that death without the Holy Ghost is damnation. Knowing this, that's probably why I've never attempted to do something dangerously foolish, lol.

 

[Black Dog]

Well, I certainly don't see it that way. I know what should be done for my salvation, and so long as I have breath I will continue. It is God's Spirit, the path to salvation; my various experiences while watching and observing such hidden ordeals solidifies my resolve. It is not torture; it is the mere solemn recognition that death without the Holy Ghost is damnation. Knowing this, that's probably why I've never attempted to do something dangerously foolish, lol.

Wake not everyone can speak in tongues, and is not meant to. Nothing in scripture says you will be damned by not speaking in tongues.