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Spain under lock down

why is google different?

I suspect definition. Total cases might have gone up by 7550, but only 2987 of those was in the last 24 hours. Basically there have been revisions to the last 2 weeks. I know that Madrid, Catalonia, Basque areas and Aragon all had so called technical difficulties over the last 14 days... could be that.
 
The the higher % of those that present symptoms must be a good thing, surely?

Asymptomatic carriers are an invisible danger to others, whereas those displaying symptoms can self-isolate.

Well is it? Think about it this way.. symptomatic people are relatively easy to find and isolate because you know.. symptoms. People know something is wrong.

Now asymptomatic carriers spread the disease but they are not catching them..if the ratio of asymptomatic vs symptomatic is say 70 vs 30.. then that means far more are escaping detection. And that aint good right?
 
I'm not sure Spain ever had 7,550 cases in one day - even back in the beginning of all this.

I'm sure Pete will know...

Pft yes they did. They had over 10k in a day on March 20th. Over a week of 7k+ around that period.
 
Well is it? Think about it this way.. symptomatic people are relatively easy to find and isolate because you know.. symptoms. People know something is wrong.

Now asymptomatic carriers spread the disease but they are not catching them..if the ratio of asymptomatic vs symptomatic is say 70 vs 30.. then that means far more are escaping detection. And that aint good right?

Good point, never looked at it like that.
 
So I'm guessing next for Spain will be no eating or drinking in public places, unless seated at a cafe, bar, or restaurant?
Good guess.

Makes sense too since any feasting outside of those (be that on liquids or solids) usually entails undisciplined crowds that are not easy to control.
 
I'd say I look like someone who is prepared to question what's presented to me, and you appear to be someone who happily accepts unsubstantiated science from just one source.

You don't need to possess all the medical qualifications to express an opinion in contradiction of professional experts. Simply read the opinions expressed by "experts" that are in contradiction with other "professional experts".

You could not cite one source from any expert which claims second smoke does not spread Covid-19. Yet you contradict medical experts who warn it can.
 
At least the Bayern Munich 8 - FC Barcelona 2 scoreline will cheer up a large part of Spain for a long time to come :lamo
 
I'm not sure Spain ever had 7,550 cases in one day - even back in the beginning of all this.

I'm sure Pete will know...

google is wrong i guess
 
I suspect definition. Total cases might have gone up by 7550, but only 2987 of those was in the last 24 hours. Basically there have been revisions to the last 2 weeks. I know that Madrid, Catalonia, Basque areas and Aragon all had so called technical difficulties over the last 14 days... could be that.

possibly
 
You could not cite one source from any expert which claims second smoke does not spread Covid-19. Yet you contradict medical experts who warn it can.

I'm citing one of your sources where an expert claims second smoke "may or possibly" spread Covid-19 - which isn't exactly "does or does not".

Also, I'm personally not contradicting anyone, although the expert links that YOU previously provided do contradict each other.
 
I'm citing one of your sources where an expert claims second smoke "may or possibly" spread Covid-19 - which isn't exactly "does or does not".

Also, I'm personally not contradicting anyone, although the expert links that YOU previously provided do contradict each other.
No they don't. The Spanish authorities are right to heed The Spanish Society for Pneumology and Thoracic Surgery whose credentials I prefer to your opinion supported by nobody.
 
No they don't. The Spanish authorities are right to heed The Spanish Society for Pneumology and Thoracic Surgery whose credentials I prefer to your opinion supported by nobody.

Yes they do.

Please enlighten me on exactly what my opinion is.

Perhaps supply some more links that actually enforce the SSP and TS findings, instead of links that either address a different matter regarding smokers, say things like "may or possibly", and don't contradict each other.

Let's be fair here, the internet isn't exactly awash with "experts" or health organisations confirming or denying Spain's findings - in fact there's hardly anything, as you already know from your previous searches.

Alternatively, you can just continue in your sheer bliss and ignorance with the unsupported questionable findings of the SSP and TS.
 
Yes they do.

Please enlighten me on exactly what my opinion is.

Perhaps supply some more links that actually enforce the SSP and TS findings, instead of links that either address a different matter regarding smokers, say things like "may or possibly", and don't contradict each other.

Let's be fair here, the internet isn't exactly awash with "experts" or health organisations confirming or denying Spain's findings - in fact there's hardly anything, as you already know from your previous searches.

Alternatively, you can just continue in your sheer bliss and ignorance with the unsupported questionable findings of the SSP and TS.

I have a better idea. Why don't you give one expert source that says secondhand smoke does not carry the Covid-19 virus.
 
I have a better idea. Why don't you give one expert source that says secondhand smoke does not carry the Covid-19 virus.

Then I'll simply just use your previous link that says that secondhand smoke "may or possibly" carry the Covid-19 virus, which pretty much also means smoke "may or possibly" does not carry the Covid-19 virus.
 
Then I'll simply just use your previous link that says that secondhand smoke "may or possibly" carry the Covid-19 virus, which pretty much also means smoke "may or possibly" does not carry the Covid-19 virus.
Might I recommend a high school grammar book for you?

9780199533190.jpg
 
Might I recommend a high school grammar book for you?

9780199533190.jpg

So, when confronted with a debate, you resort to insults?

Insults, or tantrums with the common retort such as "you will hear no more from me".

Why not stick to the debate?
 
So, when confronted with a debate, you resort to insults?

Insults, or tantrums with the common retort such as "you will hear no more from me".

Why not stick to the debate?

You began by saying you could not find any other experts besides the Spanish medical specialists. I found a few to help you before you wrote that you do not accept the authority of the Spanish doctors. I found a few studies for you which more or less backed up the Spanish specialists. Then you started to nit-pick and misread the reports I gave you. One study, perhaps the least definite, says that secondhand smoke may be dangerous. That is a warning. But you went on to characterize that warning as meaning secondhand smoke might be harmless. That is the opposite of what was intended to be conveyed by that report. I suggest you cannot tell the difference between a statement meant to warn and one intended to disregard any possible danger of contracting Covid-19 from smokers' exhaled particulates. A grammar book would clear this up for you. The thing is, I believe you probably (if I may use that word) know very well where the preponderance of evidence lies even at this early stage when there have been no longitudinal studies of secondhand smoke transmitting Covid-19. It is still early days and the professionals who work in this field are giving advice to politicians and hoping they will do the right thing. If you read between the lines, you will see that I tried to debate with you and I confess that I am guilty of the fallacy of argumentum ad verecundiam or appealing to the authority of the Spanish respiratory specialists. I think this is the way to go especially in light of no argument against them. Also, I might have been too lazy to spell it out properly in my earlier posts. Thank you for your patience.
 
You began by saying you could not find any other experts besides the Spanish medical specialists. I found a few to help you before you wrote that you do not accept the authority of the Spanish doctors. I found a few studies for you which more or less backed up the Spanish specialists. Then you started to nit-pick and misread the reports I gave you. One study, perhaps the least definite, says that secondhand smoke may be dangerous. That is a warning. But you went on to characterize that warning as meaning secondhand smoke might be harmless. That is the opposite of what was intended to be conveyed by that report. I suggest you cannot tell the difference between a statement meant to warn and one intended to disregard any possible danger of contracting Covid-19 from smokers' exhaled particulates. A grammar book would clear this up for you. The thing is, I believe you probably (if I may use that word) know very well where the preponderance of evidence lies even at this early stage when there have been no longitudinal studies of secondhand smoke transmitting Covid-19. It is still early days and the professionals who work in this field are giving advice to politicians and hoping they will do the right thing. If you read between the lines, you will see that I tried to debate with you and I confess that I am guilty of the fallacy of argumentum ad verecundiam or appealing to the authority of the Spanish respiratory specialists. I think this is the way to go especially in light of no argument against them. Also, I might have been too lazy to spell it out properly in my earlier posts. Thank you for your patience.


Patience is often a virtue when dealing with certain posters on here.

I read those reports thoroughly, perhaps you didn't?

You're under the misconception that I'm in disagreement that smoking DOES spread Covid-19, when in fact I'm only questioning the warnings that it does. Most sources online all say "could, may, possibly" which isn't really concrete, is it?

To bring in a national ban of sorts based on that seems like overkill.

Spanish people who do smoke have been interacting since May, yet the number of infections have only recently been on the rise (three months on), which tells me that secondary smoke doesn't appear to be the culprit.
 
Patience is often a virtue when dealing with certain posters on here.

I read those reports thoroughly, perhaps you didn't?

You're under the misconception that I'm in disagreement that smoking DOES spread Covid-19, when in fact I'm only questioning the warnings that it does. Most sources online all say "could, may, possibly" which isn't really concrete, is it?

To bring in a national ban of sorts based on that seems like overkill.

Spanish people who do smoke have been interacting since May, yet the number of infections have only recently been on the rise (three months on), which tells me that secondary smoke doesn't appear to be the culprit.

The Spanish Society for Pneumology and Thoracic Surgery advising that smokers outside who cannot socially distance, should not smoke. I take this seriously and without any contraindication, it would be irresponsible for the authorities to ignore these people who have a rigorous academic training and who routinely work with Covid-19 patients. I am guessing you are a smoker because I see no good reason to take the risk. Spaniards are notorious for their cigarette smoking as well as the old men with their puros. Now, when these young things gather at restaurants, cafés, bars, and so on, they are actually much closer to their friends physically. The Spanish chatter a lot and laugh and joke. I read what you read and there is evidence that the microscopic Covid-19 particulates are carried in the smoke and even in the outside it can be inhaled by friends, passers-by, and coffee shop workers. As I mentioned earlier, smokers will not be wearing masks even when we are told it is insane to be going without them. The air belongs to everyone, including babies, toddlers and families out for a stroll or a meal. It is not a lot to ask the smokers to lay off the cigarettes in the interests of others. Not smoking in public will do harm to nobody and will probably, yes probably, save others from getting an infection from someone who is symptom free or incubating the virus which can take up to ten days of contagious transmission before a person is diagnosed with the virus.
 
The Spanish Society for Pneumology and Thoracic Surgery advising that smokers outside who cannot socially distance, should not smoke. I take this seriously and without any contraindication, it would be irresponsible for the authorities to ignore these people who have a rigorous academic training and who routinely work with Covid-19 patients. I am guessing you are a smoker because I see no good reason to take the risk. Spaniards are notorious for their cigarette smoking as well as the old men with their puros. Now, when these young things gather at restaurants, cafés, bars, and so on, they are actually much closer to their friends physically. The Spanish chatter a lot and laugh and joke. I read what you read and there is evidence that the microscopic Covid-19 particulates are carried in the smoke and even in the outside it can be inhaled by friends, passers-by, and coffee shop workers. As I mentioned earlier, smokers will not be wearing masks even when we are told it is insane to be going without them. The air belongs to everyone, including babies, toddlers and families out for a stroll or a meal. It is not a lot to ask the smokers to lay off the cigarettes in the interests of others. Not smoking in public will do harm to nobody and will probably, yes probably, save others from getting an infection from someone who is symptom free or incubating the virus which can take up to ten days of contagious transmission before a person is diagnosed with the virus.
The point is, that this organisation was always against smoking so their view is tainted by this.

That does not mean thier view is not valid or wrong or anything like that. Just that in a debate this view has to be taken in consideration, just as the smokers alliance (if such exists) view needs to be taken in that context.

And I suspect that pretty much everyone agrees that smoking is bad and should be banned.... Having lost my mother and my grandfather to the cigarette, this is quit personal so take my comments in that context.

Sent from my Honor 8X
 
At least the Bayern Munich 8 - FC Barcelona 2 scoreline will cheer up a large part of Spain for a long time to come :lamo
Yup, my totally anti-Barça Spanish neighbor hadn't managed to contain his glee, even come this morning.:mrgreen:
 
The Spanish Society for Pneumology and Thoracic Surgery advising that smokers outside who cannot socially distance, should not smoke. I take this seriously and without any contraindication, it would be irresponsible for the authorities to ignore these people who have a rigorous academic training and who routinely work with Covid-19 patients. I am guessing you are a smoker because I see no good reason to take the risk. Spaniards are notorious for their cigarette smoking as well as the old men with their puros. Now, when these young things gather at restaurants, cafés, bars, and so on, they are actually much closer to their friends physically. The Spanish chatter a lot and laugh and joke. I read what you read and there is evidence that the microscopic Covid-19 particulates are carried in the smoke and even in the outside it can be inhaled by friends, passers-by, and coffee shop workers. As I mentioned earlier, smokers will not be wearing masks even when we are told it is insane to be going without them. The air belongs to everyone, including babies, toddlers and families out for a stroll or a meal. It is not a lot to ask the smokers to lay off the cigarettes in the interests of others. Not smoking in public will do harm to nobody and will probably, yes probably, save others from getting an infection from someone who is symptom free or incubating the virus which can take up to ten days of contagious transmission before a person is diagnosed with the virus.


I'm not a smoker, so a wrong guess there I'm afraid.

Yes, the Spanish chatter a lot and laugh and joke, and the risk of spreading Covid-19 through chatting and laughing is "possibly" greater than spreading it through smoking. So perhaps a ban on chatting and laughing outside for those who cannot socially distance?

Some more "experts" here -

"Secondhand smoke isn't believed to directly spread the virus, experts say, but infected smokers may blow droplets carrying the virus when they exhale."


infected smokers: Can you get the coronavirus from second-hand smoke? Experts say there's a possibility - The Economic Times
 
Yup, my totally anti-Barça Spanish neighbor hadn't managed to contain his glee, even come this morning.:mrgreen:
Well a wounded bear is a dangerous bear or whatever the saying is. It will hasten the renewal of the team and changing of the board...and about time.

Sent from my Honor 8X
 
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