Spain under lock down

[PeteEU]

I guess hospitalisations within those two figures are the most important factor.

As long as deaths, and those requiring hospital treatment for the virus remains at the lowest expectancy, versus the higher amount of new cases, then that has to be the best scenario for Spain.

Hospitalasation is way down...for now.

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[PeteEU]

The difference between the Brits and ze Germans holidaying in Mallorca is that the Brits are rowdy teenagers usually on their first holiday in Magaluf, or young twenty somethings on a mad bender for a week, whilst ze Germans are usually a lot older and affluent who prefer dining out in different areas of the island.

Aye. Still don't change the facts that drunk British tourists are not exactly wanted here or anywhere and they often get the most press coverage.

Funny enough near me it is not the British they have a problem with but Fins. They call the area little Finland and some local realtors refuse to rent out to people from Finland.

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[Sven Karma]

...
Funny enough near me it is not the British they have a problem with but Fins. They call the area little Finland and some local realtors refuse to rent out to people from Finland.

My understanding is that under Franco the coast was divvied up for tourist purposes in national blocs.

 

[Chagos]

The difference between the Brits and ze Germans holidaying in Mallorca is that the Brits are rowdy teenagers usually on their first holiday in Magaluf, or young twenty somethings on a mad bender for a week, whilst ze Germans are usually a lot older and affluent who prefer dining out in different areas of the island.

You've obviously never been to El Arenal and its "Bierstrasse". Loads of yobs and all of them speaking "Deutsch".

Okay, "speaking" would be a bit of an exaggeration, drunken babble more to the point.

 

[PeteEU]

My understanding is that under Franco the coast was divvied up for tourist purposes in national blocs.

Maybe but it is not that.

Foreign nationals have a tendency to group up in defacto ghettos..does not matter the country we are talking about. It is why places like Little Italy were created in some cities or China Town. So this area has a lot of Fins because there is the Finnish Church there and stores, and they are there because a lot of Fins live there. A little further down the Paseo/Road is the Swedish Church and School, which means quite a few Swedes also live there. Now this does not mean that they out number locals, it just means there is a high concentration.

It is a bit like Mallorca being called Little Germany because relatively more Germans go there than anywhere else in Spain.

Brits go everywhere, but still places like Benidorm or La Cala are known British hottspots for tourism and settling down.



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[PeteEU]

You've obviously never been to El Arenal and its "Bierstrasse". Loads of yobs and all of them speaking "Deutsch".

Okay, "speaking" would be a bit of an exaggeration, drunken babble more to the point.

Yes all nationalities get drunk, but for some reason the British tend to be more loud and violent when they are drunk, which causes troubles with locals and other groups.

Of course everything is relative and it is far from all Brits who are drunk idiots.

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[Snazzy]

Aye. Still don't change the facts that drunk British tourists are not exactly wanted here or anywhere and they often get the most press coverage.

The Brits may not be wanted (along with most other nationalities), but they are most certainly financially needed there or anywhere.

 

[PeteEU]

The Brits may not be wanted (along with most other nationalities), but they are most certainly financially needed there or anywhere.

Yep, the dilemma.

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[Chagos]

Yes all nationalities get drunk, but for some reason the British tend to be more loud and violent when they are drunk, which causes troubles with locals and other groups.

Of course everything is relative and it is far from all Brits who are drunk idiots.

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Well, talking of "irresponsibles", a local couple has now managed to bring the virus right here. Youngsters as one has by now come to expect, they had nothing better to do than think that the loosening of the past lockdown was their personal invitation to go on a friggin' holiday.

So they come back untested (they vacationed within Spain) and manage to infect their whole bloody family, all the way up to Granddad and Grandma.

What's worse, they also infected a relative who works in the Ayuntamiento (town hall), so we can all expect that one to be closed.

Temporarily IF all within there are tested negatively and indefinitely if tests come up "Positive". And they'll probably have to test half (if not more) the village as well.

Just goes to show that one can take all conceivable precautions (as I do) by wearing a mask, staying out of buses and (let alone) planes and avoiding all crowds, while by now readily punching anyone who comes nearer than 1.5 meters, all it takes is a couple of brain-dead kids to potentially create an infection cluster in a village that was so far spared.

On that note, wearing gloves in the supermarkets is no longer obligatory, there's nobody around any more making sure that one uses the disinfectant dispensers before entering and the biggest joke is the girls at the cash-out sitting behind plastic shields, while any client going to the queue of the cash-out to their right (IOW BEHIND them) gets closer than the one "distanced" by the shield in front, WITHOUT their back being shielded at all.

I feel myself getting more and more authoritarian and the only reason I'm not advocating the re-introduction of public floggings (all the way from stupid kids in general to the idiotic managers of large shops or other venues) is that those would probably attract large audiences as well, breathing all over each other with unprotected glee.

October is going to be fun, not to mention winter.

Morons.:roll:

 

[Chagos]

Spain passed the half million mark of infections today , something that no other country in W. Europe has so far done.

2nd largest European country in size after France (if one doesn't count Russia), but smaller in population than, for instance, Germany, UK, Italy and France herself.

This is not working.

 

[Snazzy]

Spain passed the half million mark of infections today , something that no other country in W. Europe has so far done.

2nd largest European country in size after France (if one doesn't count Russia), but smaller in population than, for instance, Germany, UK, Italy and France herself.

This is not working.

Yes, something's clearly not working. They were doing so well too, such a shame things are going backwards.

Although the virus appears to be on the rise again around Europe, so it's not just the Spanish who are doing things wrong.

What surprised me was how cases didn't start rising back in July due tourism for Spain - being a top destination for its sunshine. So this second wave doesn't appear to be the fault of tourism, which was also considerably down by all accounts.

 

[Chagos]

Yes, something's clearly not working. They were doing so well too, such a shame things are going backwards.

Although the virus appears to be on the rise again around Europe, so it's not just the Spanish who are doing things wrong.

What surprised me was how cases didn't start rising back in July due tourism for Spain - being a top destination for its sunshine. So this second wave doesn't appear to be the fault of tourism, which was also considerably down by all accounts.

I can't say this for sure but "foreign" tourists seemed prone to travel to areas of Spain that showed to take special care in fomenting protection measures, however any success in those ventures may have varied.

It kept said areas, for the time being, off any alert lists that the countries of origin issued.

The case I outlined in post #559 is representative of what "locals" pursued by way of tourism, following the traditional pattern of escaping the summer heat of their inland towns by either going to the nearest coast, or, as is a tradition with "Southern" Spaniards, scarpering up North to the milder summer climes of the Biscay Bay and its Western extensions.

One of the areas most "infected" all the way from the beginning and all the way thru general lockdown and up til now.

Add the general idiocy (especially with some of the party-loving "young") in believing that with the loosening of measures, Covid was also practically gone, and there we have at least some of the clues.

The situation nevertheless seems still manageable wrt capacity for hospitalization where needed, very unlike at the beginning of the lockdown when "Italian" conditions raged in the health system here.

Still, the general carelessness I now get to see gives cause for worry. There appears to now exist an attitude of "I'm going to enjoy my life DESPITE Covid", rather than the far more prudent "I'm going to enjoy life WITH Covid."

 

[PeteEU]

Yes, something's clearly not working. They were doing so well too, such a shame things are going backwards.

Although the virus appears to be on the rise again around Europe, so it's not just the Spanish who are doing things wrong.

Yes, a lot focus on Spain, and yet yesterday the UK and France had more cases... Guess the UK has to ban its self now?

What surprised me was how cases didn't start rising back in July due tourism for Spain - being a top destination for its sunshine. So this second wave doesn't appear to be the fault of tourism, which was also considerably down by all accounts.

Well we know that the incubation period is 3 to 14 days... average around 5 days. The lock down ended 21st of June (as in the state of alarm ended), but we had been in deescalation for over a month. Now the problem was there was a rush in some areas to get out of lock down, and one of those areas was up north in Aragon/Catalonia. And it is here the problem resurfaced so to say. The first signs of problems were "official" around the 17th of July, which is 3 weeks after the end of state of emergency. Now there is a lag between the official "oh ****" moment and when the problem actually started.. lets say a week or two. And suddenly it starts to make a bit more sense no? They basically never got the problem under full control in Aragon/Catalonia and specifically the city and area of Lleida the epicentre of the breakout.

Now we are in a situation where we have 2-3k a day... but everything is relative. Today's numbers tell an interesting tale.

Madrid had 984 cases out of 3168 cases. A familiar pattern over the last week and a half...
Basque country had 260+370+98 which is 728 cases. Same pattern over the last week and a half.
Andalusia had 304 cases.
Aragon had 208 cases
Catalonia had only 147 cases, which is interesting because a place like Galicia had 176 cases.

Point is Madrid and the Basque country combined had about 50% of all cases. Madrid is yet again a hell hole of infection. Considering that Madrid only late last week started to implement restrictions yet again is kinda wtf? Of course it is a PP (conservative) run area that has a long history of mis-management and corruption and yet the people of Madrid keep reelecting them.

In Andalusia, a relative large portion of the new infections are employees going back to work. The Andalusian Junta has tested all school teachers and workers in schools and luckily found relatively few cases. 135 out of 87000 tested. But Malaga leaders have said that if the infection numbers dont start to fall very soon, then they will pull the trigger on some sort of lock down. Quite the difference in leadership considering they also are PP...

But there is a theory floating around why Spain has such a hard problem getting it under control and it might have some validity. Spain has 8 of the highest population density cities in Europe.

1) L'Hospitalet de Llobregat - South of Barcelona
5) Barcelona
8) Cadiz - Andalusia
9) Bilbao - Basque region
17) A Coruna - Galicia
20) Valencia
21) Madrid
24) Seville - Andalusia

Now that list is interesting, because at the moment the high infection areas are Basque region, Galicia, Andalusia, and Madrid.. all on the list. The theory kinda falls apart some what, when you go into detail... Cadiz has not had high occurrence of the virus and was for quite a while virus free during the lock down. Seville had less cases than Malaga who is not on the list. Valencia also had relatively low numbers. But the theory is interesting.

Now hospitalisations are critical and they are up with the increase in cases. However as far as I can see or understand, they are relatively low compared to similar times in March and April. ICU numbers are the same, even though one in ICU is too much imo.

We shall see how the numbers will change once the wave of workers being tested by companies has gone over.. so this week or next will be key.

But as always, the main problem is the asymptomatic people and it is not their fault.... getting a hold on that is key and it is hard. Of course when you have certain parts of the population that does not care, then you got a ****ty combination.

 

[Snazzy]

Yes, a lot focus on Spain, and yet yesterday the UK and France had more cases... Guess the UK has to ban its self now?

France appears to spiralling out of control with 10k new daily cases, which is a concern. Thankfully so far, the hospitalisations are low, as with Spain's rising cases.

What's the deal at the Spanish border with France, are there any quarantine rules in place when travelling between the two countries?

Coronavirus: France sets daily record with almost 10,000 new cases - BBC News

 

[PeteEU]

France appears to spiralling out of control with 10k new daily cases, which is a concern. Thankfully so far, the hospitalisations are low, as with Spain's rising cases.

What's the deal at the Spanish border with France, are there any quarantine rules in place when travelling between the two countries?

Coronavirus: France sets daily record with almost 10,000 new cases - BBC News

Not that I am aware off... Maybe the ones France put in place between them and Catalonia are still in place.

Yes France seems to be getting hit hard as is the UK. Portugal as well (relatively speaking).

Now the Spanish numbers need to be taken in context. Yesterday there was reported 10k new cases but only 4.5k were during the last 24 hours. So wonder how the French define their numbers. Oh and almost 2/3s were in Madrid and one of the Basque regions.

But numbers seem to be peaking in most of Spain or on the way down.

Now if we peak now and there is no real lock down, then all is good relatively speaking as the hospitals have plenty of capacity at the moment.

I am a bit more optimistic since we are pretty much open with only certain specific restrictions.

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[Snazzy]

Now if we peak now and there is no real lock down, then all is good relatively speaking as the hospitals have plenty of capacity at the moment.

I am a bit more optimistic since we are pretty much open with only certain specific restrictions.

If there's to be a peak, then a decline in cases in Spain, then perhaps a third wave around November/December time?

I agree, no lockdowns are a good sign that you're managing to function alongside the virus.

 

[PeteEU]

If there's to be a peak, then a decline in cases in Spain, then perhaps a third wave around November/December time?

I agree, no lockdowns are a good sign that you're managing to function alongside the virus.

Yes, I have elderly friends who are seeing other friends families getting hit, but so far no deaths and only precautionary hospitalisations. And in almost every case, it is "young" people who brought it into the house hold.

Now the kicker here, is schools stated this week in Spain... so the peak might not be over because of this as we have already heard of cases where parents have sent possible infected kids to school (later to be proven infected), which has resulted in classes or even whole schools to go into quarantine.

Had a scare myself this week when I woke up Tuesday morning with the sniffles. Then I realised the temperature had dropped massively overnight and I had been cold during the night. Sniffles were gone by the next day as was other symptoms. Never had a fever either and feel fine now. Amazing how this bug has made people paranoid as I had totally forgotten that when I get hit by big temperature changes, then I get the sniffles. Been like that my whole life, but my first thought was "oh ****, Covid".

 

[Snazzy]

Had a scare myself this week when I woke up Tuesday morning with the sniffles. Then I realised the temperature had dropped massively overnight and I had been cold during the night. Sniffles were gone by the next day as was other symptoms. Never had a fever either and feel fine now. Amazing how this bug has made people paranoid as I had totally forgotten that when I get hit by big temperature changes, then I get the sniffles. Been like that my whole life, but my first thought was "oh ****, Covid".

Must admit, I'm the same haha

Every time I have the sniffles, phlegmy throat, slight headache, and feel like I have a temperature (when I haven't) - I'm certain I have the onset of Covid-19.

I'm not looking forward to the day when I catch my next common cold - which I catch pretty much every winter.

 

[Chagos]

Yes, I have elderly friends who are seeing other friends families getting hit, but so far no deaths and only precautionary hospitalisations. And in almost every case, it is "young" people who brought it into the house hold.

Now the kicker here, is schools stated this week in Spain... so the peak might not be over because of this as we have already heard of cases where parents have sent possible infected kids to school (later to be proven infected), which has resulted in classes or even whole schools to go into quarantine.

Had a scare myself this week when I woke up Tuesday morning with the sniffles. Then I realised the temperature had dropped massively overnight and I had been cold during the night. Sniffles were gone by the next day as was other symptoms. Never had a fever either and feel fine now. Amazing how this bug has made people paranoid as I had totally forgotten that when I get hit by big temperature changes, then I get the sniffles. Been like that my whole life, but my first thought was "oh ****, Covid".

Had a scare myself this week

Following my earlier report on the village here, we now have 9 confirmed cases and possibly more that people are keeping "stumm" about. Only "public" place open being the post office, I drove there this morning and didn't see a soul in the normally well-frequented "calles". I was in contact (distant) with one of the cases 11 days ago, but we both wore masks and, contact being in the reception area of the Ayuntamiento, there was also a perspex screen between us. Ayuntamiento is subsequently closed completely, three of the above (guy at the reception included) also working in the Ayuntamiento and tested positive.

One meanwhile died and that she was a very old lady is no comfort, what with her having been fit as a fiddle and really a good and friendly soul, always.

I had a bit of a cough and the sniffles a couple of days ago but I'd also been using an angle grinder on a wall without bothering to put on a mask. Fine now, but no idea whether I caught a mild case but maybe am still infectious. So I'm going to stay put for another week, rather than strain any medical center for a test that is in short supply anyway.

Don't think I've caught it but what annoys me most is that all precautions an individual may take amount to nothing, when a couple of morons start a cluster out of sheer irresponsibility. As you know these villagers are a close knit lot that often have three generations living under the same roof. That would also explain the spread in rural areas here and up North, seeing how living on ranches 50 miles from the nearest neighbor (or family members) isn't really the local style.

 

[PeteEU]

Following my earlier report on the village here, we now have 9 confirmed cases and possibly more that people are keeping "stumm" about. Only "public" place open being the post office, I drove there this morning and didn't see a soul in the normally well-frequented "calles". I was in contact (distant) with one of the cases 11 days ago, but we both wore masks and, contact being in the reception area of the Ayuntamiento, there was also a perspex screen between us. Ayuntamiento is subsequently closed completely, three of the above (guy at the reception included) also working in the Ayuntamiento and tested positive.

One meanwhile died and that she was a very old lady is no comfort, what with her having been fit as a fiddle and really a good and friendly soul, always.

I had a bit of a cough and the sniffles a couple of days ago but I'd also been using an angle grinder on a wall without bothering to put on a mask. Fine now, but no idea whether I caught a mild case but maybe am still infectious. So I'm going to stay put for another week, rather than strain any medical center for a test that is in short supply anyway.

Don't think I've caught it but what annoys me most is that all precautions an individual may take amount to nothing, when a couple of morons start a cluster out of sheer irresponsibility. As you know these villagers are a close knit lot that often have three generations living under the same roof. That would also explain the spread in rural areas here and up North, seeing how living on ranches 50 miles from the nearest neighbor (or family members) isn't really the local style.

Read about your village in the papers.

Here I just learned that the Junta wants to turn a hotel 500 meters or so down the road into a quarantine building if needed. The locals are not exactly happy about that as there are better and more isolated places and the local council unanimously are against it...that means VOX to Podemos agree..

But I also don't think it is needed at least for now as most places have reached a plateau or so it seems.

Only Madrid seems out of control...as usual. But yea I have friends who have neighbours getting infected after a birthday party with kids and so on. Kinda worried with schools opening and how bad that can get. We shall see. The digital divide in Spain is too big to move learning online.

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[PeteEU]

Been a while, but here is an update. Spain, as everyone knows, has been hit by a second wave of infections.

The situation is uneven over the country as usual, and it is getting better most places. The current "shit hit the fan" area is of course the Madrid community. The community is run by the PP party for decades and is the most corrupt place in Spain.. and that takes some doing. The lackluster reaction by the PP administration has caused a massive spike (relatively speaking) in Madrid, while the rest of the country has seen at worst a stabilization or even fall in infections the last 14-21 days.

Let me give you an example on the stupidity of the Madrid conservative government. They implemented a lock down based on medical districts in the region. Now in places like where I am, it can be quite logical to do it this way. These districts cover large areas, and many villages/towns are separated by some distance and travel between the districts is lets say kinda uncommon. So Malaga City has several districts, as it is a big city, and Costa del Sol district (where I am) is next too it, stretching almost to Gibraltar from Malaga.. so it covers a large area. Travel between Malaga City and the surrounding areas happens of course, but a majority of people live relatively far away from the Malaga districts vs the Costal del Sol district. Now Madrid is different..it has many districts in a tightly packed sprawling city. And here the Madrid government in all their wisdom, decided to lockdown the city based on infection rates in medical districts... which meant some, pardon my french... ****ed up insane situations. You have situations where if you live in a standard apartment building and have look out of your window facing the street.. your neighbours across the street could be in lockdown because they are in a different district. Or you walk out your door, to go to the supermarket, which is in your district, but fastest way to get there, is in a lockdown district, so you have to go the long way around... and so on and so on. No wonder people in Madrid are confused and mad.

Anyways rant over..

Madrid leads in infections with 800-1700 a day depending on the wind basically. City is pretty much in lockdown, but the local government is fighting the national government in how to do things.
Andalusia, Aragon (the ground zero of the second wave), Navarra and Pais Vasco (Basque country) follow with 300 to 400 infections a day and falling. Aragon was hitting 1000 infections at the start of the 2nd wave.
Catalunya, Canaries, Castilla La Mancha (up by Madrid), Galicia, Extremadura (by Portugal), and Murcia follow with 100 to 200 infections a day and falling... yep Catalunya is WAYYY down.
Mellia, Ceuta, Castille Y Leon, Asturias, Balearics, Cantabria and Valencia plus La Rioja (Basque country) all have under 100 a day and falling.

Where I am, the numbers interesting in that at the moment we have 2 to 3 times more cured than new infections per day. Hospitalizations are declining, but deaths are up. This is mostly due to several old peoples homes getting hit, despite being instantly quarantined when cases spiked. Todays numbers is 137 new infections and 5 deaths and 303 cured.

Andalusian government (yep PP conservative), are actually doing a pretty good job. They have put in place new lockdown rules if areas if they reach a certain amount of infections (500 per 100k inhabitants). This caused problems due to social media disinformation, but was relatively quickly cleared up hopefully. Basically morons on Whatsapp and Facebook spread the rumour that the rules would come into effect immediately instead of "If needed". Only a few places in Andalusia have had the new plan activated and are sadly mostly around old peoples homes. The government is also floating the idea of using rapid tests at the airports and even guaranteeing medical insurance for tourists coming from countries that have "blacklisted" Spain. So some one is at least trying something. Now we just need a some what reliable rapid test...

The next worrying thing is.. there was a rush of people from Madrid going on trains to Malaga.. basically students and workers who normally stay in Madrid... all trying to avoid the lockdown going into effect this weekend. I do suspect that infection rates will go up but hopefully not explode the next few weeks in places like Andalusia because of this.... we shall see.

Finally the Spanish economy is of course getting hit hard, but not as hard as most people had expected... which is some good news I guess. But of course this pandemic aint over yet..

 

[truthatallcost]

Je suis chagos.