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Sowell: The Mindset of the Left: Part II

head of joaquin said:
Prove it.

So how much do you give to the poor?
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You just proved it. If you truly gave $10M to the poor, you wouldn't brag about it. Oops I forgot you're a Progressive that answers it all.
 
Wehrwolfen said:
You just proved it. If you truly gave $10M to the poor, you wouldn't brag about it. Oops I forgot you're a Progressive that answers it all.
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Not very logical. Now, how much did you give to the poor. I want documents.
 
humbolt said:
I'm not for the state assuming parental responsibilities. I'm all for parents assuming the responsibility they chose when they had children - both mother and father. My point in this is that a dynamic and growing economy is the first concrete step to be taken. The cost of the war on poverty in total exceeds our current annual GDP, and poverty is a mere few percentage points below what it was when the war was started. That's not victory. That's a bad joke - not only on those who are poor, but also on those who have paid for the effort. The economics is far easier to treat than the social problems, which will require generations now to repair.
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Excellent post! It's unfortunate that several generations are now involved, and the newer family members have nothing to measure their lives against except what they see happening around them. You would hope that the desire to escape that lifestyle might motivate people, but by the time a young family member is old enough to make a decision, the cards are already stacked against them by their own society. Wasn't integrating schools by busing supposed to aid in exposing children to different lifestyles alternatives? Sad.... :thumbdown:

Good afternoon, humbolt! :2wave:
 
calamity said:
You're missing my point. How do you enforce parental responsibility? If you have a mother with IQ is 90-100, who watches television all day, works at McD's half the night because R Wingers cut off her food stamps, welfare checks and subsidized housing, who is going to raise the kid---whose IQ is also probably around 100? And, even if you have a father in the home, what's to say he's any better? In fact, statistics say he will be worse: less responsible, violent and in trouble with the law.
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I don't think I'm missing your point. I'm not questioning your motives at all. And those dastardly right wingers cutting people off like that. I'm telling you that if you make marriage unattractive, enable divorce, promote sexual freedom without responsibility - if you do those things - then you don't have the right to maintain that marriage, parental responsibility and the like are broken. I don't disagree that we can't fix stupid, but even the dimmer among us can understand that which is wrong if we teach them.
 
polgara said:
Excellent post! It's unfortunate that several generations are now involved, and the newer family members have nothing to measure their lives against except what they see happening around them. You would hope that the desire to escape that lifestyle might motivate people, but by the time a young family member is old enough to make a decision, the cards are already stacked against them by their own society. Wasn't integrating schools by busing supposed to aid in exposing children to different lifestyles alternatives? Sad.... :thumbdown:

Good afternoon, humbolt! :2wave:
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Hey, Pol. Hope that leg is improving. If it's raining in Ohio the way it is here, you aren't missing a thing staying in Texas for a while. To the point, though - we now have the fifth generation living in public housing in nearby, little old Roanoke. It's a complete lifestyle now, and not a road to anything but the sixth generation.
 
head of joaquin said:
Translated: if parents are irresponsible or poor, you're for letting their children suffer.

This is part of the punitive nature of the conservative personality. In the end, conservatives always want to blame somebody and make sure somebody suffers (except Bush of course -- you're not allowed to hold conservatives responsible for their failed policies)
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Have to put your own spin on it, Head? By your own definition, the children are already suffering. Why do you allow it? I'm not stopping you from helping them. Sell all your stuff and give the money to the poor and their children.
 
humbolt said:
I don't think I'm missing your point. I'm not questioning your motives at all. And those dastardly right wingers cutting people off like that. I'm telling you that if you make marriage unattractive, enable divorce, promote sexual freedom without responsibility - if you do those things - then you don't have the right to maintain that marriage, parental responsibility and the like are broken. I don't disagree that we can't fix stupid, but even the dimmer among us can understand that which is wrong if we teach them.
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Well, we could just brainwash everyone into thinking they live only to please God.

But they were way too different. "Tim struggled with [others'] immaturity," Hevesy said, "like, 'Why aren't you doing this the way I do it?' Kids are kids. I think it's not as much Aaron as it was Timmy. Timmy was a very mature 18-year-old. If you take a poll of 10 18-year-olds, 'What are first three things on your mind?' OK, first is going to be women, second's going be this and third's going got be this. Tim's going to be, 'Well, God, God and God.'

"Were they still close? Yes. But I think 18-year-olds want to do what 18-year-olds want to do, and Tim was more of a 22-year-old."

Aaron Hernandez, Odin Lloyd connected in life and death - ESPN
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I'm sure that would work...seemed to work extremely well back in the 1650's.
 
head of joaquin said:
Not very logical. Now, how much did you give to the poor. I want documents.
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I give time and money to those in my neighborhood. In fact I've got 6 people in my home right now that were flooded out of their homes. They slept over last nigh and have been fed. Something that you personally wouldn't do, no doubt.
 
After Katrina I let people who were staying at the gym at LSUS come over to the house to take showers and wash clothes. Assistance does not always have to have a monetary value.
 
Paratrooper said:
After Katrina I let people who were staying at the gym at LSUS come over to the house to take showers and wash clothes. Assistance does not always have to have a monetary value.
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But there is a huge difference between helping people with otherwise stable lives get through an acute problem and helping build up an entire class of people so that they can reach stable enough lives where needing a place to shower or wash clothes is an acute problem. The former is easy. The latter is hard, and conservatives continually refuse to take up the challenge.
 
From my perspective conservatives are very charitable, they just have different ways of approaching it.

Even after taking vast sums of our wealth for redistribution we still donate to charitable organizations as well as offer physical assistance when we can.

The problem with the system as I see it is we are throwing money at the problem ( in this case 15 trillion ) and there is no indication that it is making a difference. Sure people are more comfortable in their poverty but that is not the point, the point is to get them out of poverty.
 
Paratrooper said:
After Katrina I let people who were staying at the gym at LSUS come over to the house to take showers and wash clothes. Assistance does not always have to have a monetary value.
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Sounds like good Old Fashion American hospitality and help to those in need. Good for you neighbor.
 
humbolt said:
Have to put your own spin on it, Head? By your own definition, the children are already suffering. Why do you allow it? I'm not stopping you from helping them. Sell all your stuff and give the money to the poor and their children.
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Let's play pretend! Are children better off with Medicaid and food stamps and TANF, or better off on the streets, dying, so you can punish their irresponsible parents with glee. Let's pretend.

By the way, I'm not stopping you from leaving the country to avoid paying to help them. By my guest. I'll take hardworking immigrants over smug greedy conservatives any day.
 
Wehrwolfen said:
I give time and money to those in my neighborhood. In fact I've got 6 people in my home right now that were flooded out of their homes. They slept over last nigh and have been fed. Something that you personally wouldn't do, no doubt.
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Prove it.
 
head of joaquin said:
Prove it.

So how much do you give to the poor?
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define poor

I give about 50K a year to charity. that doesn't count the 800 or so volunteer hours I give. The fair market value of that is about 40 an hour because that is what I get for doing the same thing for pay as a national class coach
 
head of joaquin said:
Let's play pretend! Are children better off with Medicaid and food stamps and TANF, or better off on the streets, dying, so you can punish their irresponsible parents with glee. Let's pretend.

By the way, I'm not stopping you from leaving the country to avoid paying to help them. By my guest. I'll take hardworking immigrants over smug greedy conservatives any day.
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the immigrants who actually work hard tend to be conservatives
 
head of joaquin said:
Prove it.
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I don't have to prove anything to you. I don't go making claims of giving $10M to the poor. You're lucky if you have a pot and a window to throw it out. If you have that much, what are you doing on these boards rather than sunning yourself in some nice surroundings, rather you live in a trailer park?
 
head of joaquin said:
Let's play pretend! Are children better off with Medicaid and food stamps and TANF, or better off on the streets, dying, so you can punish their irresponsible parents with glee. Let's pretend.

By the way, I'm not stopping you from leaving the country to avoid paying to help them. By my guest. I'll take hardworking immigrants over smug greedy conservatives any day.
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While you're playing anyway, why not pretend that we don't use children's physical health and well-being as pawns for a political agenda? Children are not starving or dying in the streets of America now, nor have they been in the past. If you know of any who are, I urge you to drop everything right now and help them out. You can try to turn that into political hay later, and blame anybody that suits your fancy then. Otherwise, you're just blowing the toxic smoke of partisan frappery.
 
calamity said:
Well, we could just brainwash everyone into thinking they live only to please God.
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Where'd that come from? I made no reference to anything religious at all. If people live to please only themselves, however, we end up pretty much right where we are now, decrying parents in their failures and the results their children suffer - rather than taking the steps we already know would truly help to remedy such things.
 
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