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South Dakota

The Pi Pirate

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OK, here's a quotation from South Dakota state senator Bill Napoli, for an exception to the abortion law there.

BILL NAPOLI: A real-life description to me would be a rape victim, brutally raped, savaged. The girl was a virgin. She was religious. She planned on saving her virginity until she was married. She was brutalized and raped, sodomized as bad as you can possibly make it, and is impregnated. I mean, that girl could be so messed up, physically and psychologically, that carrying that child could very well threaten her life.

Comments? This seems pretty far-out to me. Garden variety rape doesn't count?

Source:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june06/abortion_3-03.html
 

Naughty Nurse

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The Pi Pirate said:
OK, here's a quotation from South Dakota state senator Bill Napoli, for an exception to the abortion law there.

BILL NAPOLI: A real-life description to me would be a rape victim, brutally raped, savaged. The girl was a virgin. She was religious. She planned on saving her virginity until she was married. She was brutalized and raped, sodomized as bad as you can possibly make it, and is impregnated. I mean, that girl could be so messed up, physically and psychologically, that carrying that child could very well threaten her life.

Comments? This seems pretty far-out to me. Garden variety rape doesn't count?

Source:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june06/abortion_3-03.html
Oh, and if she'd been sodomised, she wouldn't be pregnant!

And non-Christians can't have abortions? And non-virgins can't have abortions?

Clearly a candidate for the nut house.
 

Kelzie

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Naughty Nurse said:
Oh, and if she'd been sodomised, she wouldn't be pregnant!

And non-Christians can't have abortions? And non-virgins can't have abortions?

Clearly a candidate for the nut house.
Not for much longer in South Dakota they can't.

I think this law is doomed to fail. The fact that they don't allow abortion for rape or incest is way too harsh for most people to stomach. And the SC is still 5-4 in favor, even assuming Alito and Roberts will vote against Roe v Wade.
 

Kelzie

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Naughty Nurse said:
It's really scary.
I know. Which was why you were supposed to find me a British hubby! :mrgreen:
 

Naughty Nurse

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Kelzie said:
I know. Which was why you were supposed to find me a British hubby! :mrgreen:
I'm trying!
 

jimmyjack

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Naughty Nurse said:
It's really scary.
Not half as scary as being poisoned and burned to death with salt, because your mum wanted some sexual gratification.
 
F

FallingPianos

The Pi Pirate said:
BILL NAPOLI: A real-life description to me would be a rape victim, brutally raped, savaged. The girl was a virgin. She was religious. She planned on saving her virginity until she was married. She was brutalized and raped, sodomized as bad as you can possibly make it, and is impregnated. I mean, that girl could be so messed up, physically and psychologically, that carrying that child could very well threaten her life.
ok... so he's trying to say that a law that very explicitly does not make exceptions for rape, actually does make exceptions if you twist things enough...

:doh
 

vergiss

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jimmyjack said:
Not half as scary as being poisoned and burned to death with salt, because your mum wanted some sexual gratification.
:roll:

Of course, the man is perfectly saintly and moral and had nothing whatsoever to do with the conception.

More of the sexually active women = sluts mentality the pro-lifers try to pretend it's not about.
 

talloulou

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vergiss said:
:roll:

Of course, the man is perfectly saintly and moral and had nothing whatsoever to do with the conception.

More of the sexually active women = sluts mentality the pro-lifers try to pretend it's not about.
I agree jimmyjacks comment about sexual gratification was rude and irrevelant. I'm a prolifer and I do not believe ones level of sexual activity or desire for sexual gratification has anything to do with abortion.
 

jallman

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Kelzie said:
Not for much longer in South Dakota they can't.

I think this law is doomed to fail. The fact that they don't allow abortion for rape or incest is way too harsh for most people to stomach. And the SC is still 5-4 in favor, even assuming Alito and Roberts will vote against Roe v Wade.
Well the real legal attack should be against the private interest groups supporting the law. Basically, the state knew there were going to be lawsuits filed that were going to cost a fortune. Private interest groups persuaded the state to pass the law and let them worry about paying for the court battles.
 

Fantasea

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jallman said:
Well the real legal attack should be against the private interest groups supporting the law. Basically, the state knew there were going to be lawsuits filed that were going to cost a fortune. Private interest groups persuaded the state to pass the law and let them worry about paying for the court battles.
The Pro-Death crowd had better be careful that they don't open a can of worms that they will be unable to control.

In 1973, Justice Black wrote in the Roe v. Wade opinion, "We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer."

In 1973, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, it was an easy out for him. He did, however, sow the seeds for a subsequent court to revisit the question.

In 2006, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, things are quite different. Advances in fetology, obstetrics, genetics; technical breakthroughs in scanning devices which provide real-time, full color, motion pictures of infants cavorting in the womb, all combine to remove any need to speculate about what, indeed, is in the womb. Add to this the abhorrence to many early supporters brought about by the knowledge that the procedure that promised to provide a safe alternative to the "back alley butcher" has resulted in a number of US abortions that is roughtly equivilent to the entire population of England at its last census.

The publicity given to the "partial birth abortion" debates did much to jolt many out of their complacency.

Rather than merely overturn Roe v. Wade, which would simply return the question back to the individual states, there could very easily be an opinion that settles the question of when life begins in favor of the occupant of the womb. In that case, the protections of the 14th amendment would apply and legal abortions would cease to exist.
 

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vergiss said:
:roll:

Of course, the man is perfectly saintly and moral and had nothing whatsoever to do with the conception.

More of the sexually active women = sluts mentality the pro-lifers try to pretend it's not about.
A man has no say whether abortion happens or not.
 

jimmyjack

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talloulou said:
I agree jimmyjacks comment about sexual gratification was rude and irrevelant. I'm a prolifer and I do not believe ones level of sexual activity or desire for sexual gratification has anything to do with abortion.
Elucidate.
 

talloulou

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jimmyjack said:
Elucidate.

A smart women can have as much sex and sexual gratification as her heart desires without putting herself in a position where she will require a surgical abortion.
 

Naughty Nurse

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talloulou said:
A smart women can have as much sex and sexual gratification as her heart desires without putting herself in a position where she will require a surgical abortion.
If you change the word "smart" for "properly informed" and insert "almost always" after "can" then I'll agree with that.
 

Naughty Nurse

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Fantasea said:
The Pro-Death crowd
To whom are you refering? Those who are in favour of the death penalty?
 

talloulou

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Naughty Nurse said:
To whom are you refering? Those who are in favour of the death penalty?

I think she is referring to those who believe women should have the right to kill one of us in our earliest stages of development.
 

talloulou

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Pro abortion does not necessarily mean you are for death but it does mean you are NOT against it.
 

Naughty Nurse

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talloulou said:
I think she is referring to those who believe women should have the right to kill one of us in our earliest stages of development.
Yes, I know. I just don't like her choice of words.
 

jimmyjack

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talloulou said:
A smart women can have as much sex and sexual gratification as her heart desires without putting herself in a position where she will require a surgical abortion.
How does my comment invalidate your statement?
 

talloulou

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jimmyjack said:
How does my comment invalidate your statement?
Your statement "implied" that a baby was burned to death all because the mother wanted some sexual gratification.

The two have nothing to do with one another. I can have sex with as many whoevers I want as much as I want and I won't be aborting any babies.
 

jimmyjack

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talloulou said:
Your statement "implied" that a baby was burned to death all because the mother wanted some sexual gratification.

The two have nothing to do with one another. I can have sex with as many whoevers I want as much as I want and I won't be aborting any babies.
No, what I’m saying is:

If a woman has an abortion as if it is a form of birth control, then the act of abortion means its conclusion is purely a consequence of sexual gratification, since the woman has raised her sexual satisfaction above the welfare of another individual.
 
F

FallingPianos

jimmyjack said:
No, what I’m saying is:

If a woman has an abortion as if it is a form of birth control, then the act of abortion means its conclusion is purely a consequence of sexual gratification, since the woman has raised her sexual satisfaction above the welfare of another individual.
unless she was raped.
 
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