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Sorry, Pakistan

Should we apologize for this single accident in which 17 people were killed?

  • No, they all look alike to me.

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • Yes, I'm a liberal weiner.

    Votes: 7 53.8%
  • I don't know. I have to hear Bill O'rielly's opinion first.

    Votes: 3 23.1%

  • Total voters
    13
cnredd said:
Read what I've written again...

We're talking about the locals...

Remember them?...The ones that you said are "innocents"?...Now you say "They thrive on anything we do."...

That doesn't sound too "innocent" to me...

"They" don't have to be locals to use propaganda. You are smarter than that, c'mon. Some, if not all, we don't know yet, were innocents.

cnredd said:
How do you feel about people that willingly allow genocidal radicals into their community where they become a "health hazard" to their very own family?...

I don't care if they agreed with every damn thing they thought...The locals should say, "You know what there, Mister Terrorist?....Blah, blah, blah...we hate America too...But you being around here puts our sons and daughters in jeopardy...I suggest you take the targets on your ass elsewhere."...

People could say that about our president also. You may call him a hero, but not all do. If you were Pakistani, you might call him a terrorist. They might see him as somebody who doesn't understand what the word "certain" means and as a trigger-happy cowboy. The terrorists use your rationale as well, it doesn't make it right. They have said that they have an issue with our govt. and it is the people's fault for electing that govt. So if they get killed it was their fault. Using your logic I guess we should vote the War Pigs out of office.
 
M14 Shooter said:
You apologize when you do something wrong or make an error.

Collateral damage is neither - its part of the price of war.

Apologize? No one would listen...

When did we declare war with Pakistan?
 
mixedmedia said:
I was referring to terrorists. Not everyone living in a village that happens to have been occupied by a group of terrorists. How much power do you suppose the women and children have to decide who gets to take refuge in their village? What do you suppose might happen to a good man who speaks out against the warlord in control of his community who takes in terrorists?
1)If you say the option for booting the terrorists out is low, and I'd like my children to live without hanging around Mister "Target-On-My-Ass", then Sayonara! to that community...

I know they don't have much and moving away seems inconceivable, but if staying there means the possible loss of me or my children?...I'm outta there!...

2) Grasp this...it's REAL important...

According to the last sentence here...If the locals are TRULY innocent, then they'd be mad at the Warlord for allowing the terrorists to live beside them...even if they can't say anything publicly for fear of retaliation, deep inside, they'd still hold the Warlord accountable...

If the locals are TRULY innocent...:cool:


mixedmedia said:
I guess not only us liberals can sound naive and simplistic, eh? ;)
Ouch!...

Anyone got a tissue?...I seem to be bleeding...I've been tagged!...:2wave:
 
cherokee said:
Apologize? No one would listen...
When did we declare war with Pakistan?

We didnt.
But then, we didnt attack Pakistan.
 
cnredd said:
1)If you say the option for booting the terrorists out is low, and I'd like my children to live without hanging around Mister "Target-On-My-Ass", then Sayonara! to that community...

I know they don't have much and moving away seems inconceivable, but if staying there means the possible loss of me or my children?...I'm outta there!...

2) Grasp this...it's REAL important...

According to the last sentence here...If the locals are TRULY innocent, then they'd be mad at the Warlord for allowing the terrorists to live beside them...even if they can't say anything publicly for fear of retaliation, deep inside, they'd still hold the Warlord accountable...

If the locals are TRULY innocent...

What an ethnocentric post. If the Americans were TRULY innocent...

we would hold our govt. accountable? Right? Oh wait, that's giving comfort to the enemy!
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
"They" don't have to be locals to use propaganda. You are smarter than that, c'mon. Some, if not all, we don't know yet, were innocents.
True...

This would be example 3 billion and 56 when it comes to collateral damage in history...Has everyone whose ever created collater damage apologized for it?...

Survey says??!?!... X

From the article...You know...the one that says it's "botched" and all?...

Quoting Pakistani intelligence sources, the newspaper said two clerics wanted for harbouring militants had also been invited to the dinner and that one of them, Maulvi Liaqat, returned after the raid to bury the bodies of seven "foreign nationals" killed by the missiles.

independent_thinker2002 said:
People could say that about our president also. You may call him a hero, but not all do. If you were Pakistani, you might call him a terrorist. They might see him as somebody who doesn't understand what the word "certain" means and as a trigger-happy cowboy. The terrorists use your rationale as well, it doesn't make it right. They have said that they have an issue with our govt. and it is the people's fault for electing that govt. So if they get killed it was their fault. Using your logic I guess we should vote the War Pigs out of office.
I've read it twice and am still lost...

Try again...less convoluted, and explain what the heck it has to do with this...:confused:
 
M14 Shooter said:
We didnt.
But then, we didnt attack Pakistan.

Where did we attack then?
 
cnredd said:
1)If you say the option for booting the terrorists out is low, and I'd like my children to live without hanging around Mister "Target-On-My-Ass", then Sayonara! to that community...

I know they don't have much and moving away seems inconceivable, but if staying there means the possible loss of me or my children?...I'm outta there!...

2) Grasp this...it's REAL important...

According to the last sentence here...If the locals are TRULY innocent, then they'd be mad at the Warlord for allowing the terrorists to live beside them...even if they can't say anything publicly for fear of retaliation, deep inside, they'd still hold the Warlord accountable...

If the locals are TRULY innocent...:cool:


Ouch!...

Anyone got a tissue?...I seem to be bleeding...I've been tagged!...:2wave:

In these areas of Pakistan I don't think it is a matter of calling up Two Men and a Truck and moving out. This is the lawless region of Pakistan and I would imagine people who don't want trouble keep their head down and don't say ****. Packing up your family and moving would probably bring some unwanted attention your way. I think its ridiculous to compare 21st century Philly reality with the uncontrolled border regions of Pakistan.

And children died. Are you under the impression that they may not have been innocent?

And sorry 'bout that boo-boo. Here let me kiss it for you. ;)
 
Sadly Terrorists hide amongst innocent civilians........They are cowards.......The USA trys to minimize the loss of civilian life but sometimes these attacks are necessaary..........
 
cnredd said:
I've read it twice and am still lost...

Try again...less convoluted, and explain what the heck it has to do with this...:confused:

It has to do with the perception of who is the freedom fighter and who is the terrorist. It depends on what part of the globe you are on. The same things you say about them, they say about us. With your "your presence endangers us" logic, we should vote out the war mongers.
 
Far as I know, we got the tip that al-Zawahiri was invited to dinner at this house from Pakistani intel and apparently it was pretty reliable info at the time. Now they're criticizing us for the attack.

Now, if he was invited to this place, it makes me wonder how innocent the other attendees were. Granted, there were women and children at the location, so I'm led to the assumption that al-Qaeda officials like Zawahiri use women/children as a shield of sorts. It's a shame that children were killed and in a perfect world, this wouldn't happen. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world and we're forced to weigh our priorites.
 
M14 Shooter said:
Is this one of those "stupid polls" designed to reinforce the pollster's point of view? Seems that way.


In war, innocents die.
That innocents might die is not an argument against war.

I disagree. I think it's a damn good argument against war and one of the main reasons war should only be the last resort.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Where did we attack then?

We attacked terrorists IN Pakistan.

We attacked Pakistan no more than we atrtacked France when we bombed the Germans who were IN France.
 
mixedmedia said:
In these areas of Pakistan I don't think it is a matter of calling up Two Men and a Truck and moving out. This is the lawless region of Pakistan and I would imagine people who don't want trouble keep their head down and don't say ****. Packing up your family and moving would probably bring some unwanted attention your way. I think its ridiculous to compare 21st century Philly reality with the uncontrolled border regions of Pakistan.
Once again...

If the other option is having my family live alongside terrorists with "Insert Missile Here" written on their chest, I'm outta there...

If you say "They don't think like that", then so be it...:shrug:

mixedmedia said:
And children died. Are you under the impression that they may not have been innocent?
Now you're being disingenuous...:(

mixedmedia said:
And sorry 'bout that boo-boo. Here let me kiss it for you. ;)
Thanks Babe..;)
 
Pacridge said:
I disagree. I think it's a damn good argument against war and one of the main reasons war should only be the last resort.

Then you should never be in a position where you have to make a decision regarding national security.
 
Navy Pride said:
Sadly Terrorists hide amongst innocent civilians........They are cowards.......The USA trys to minimize the loss of civilian life but sometimes these attacks are necessaary..........

It's not cowardism - it's standard guerilla fighting. Did you expect them to form battalions and tank divisions to fight the US in convential warfare?

If that is cowardism then Americans were cowards in the War of Independence.
 
M14 Shooter said:
Then you should never be in a position where you have to make a decision regarding national security.

I could say likewise for you. :roll: :cool:
 
GarzaUK said:
It's not cowardism - it's standard guerilla fighting. Did you expect them to form battalions and tank divisions to fight the US in convential warfare?

If that is cowardism then Americans were cowards in the War of Independence.

I don't recall George Washington having his troops hide behind women and children to shame the British into going home, or intentionally bombing unarmed civilians with the goal of maximizing casualties.
 
Kandahar said:
I don't recall George Washington having his troops hide behind women and children to shame the British into going home.

There was Washington's army of course. But there was guerilla's who sniped at the British amry on roads and ran back to their villages/towns.
 
M14 Shooter said:
Then you should never be in a position where you have to make a decision regarding national security.

If you think the consideration that innocent people die in war should not be taken into consideration, then I think you should avoid be placed in the decision making process of whether or not we go to war.
 
cnredd said:
Once again...

If the other option is having my family live alongside terrorists with "Insert Missile Here" written on their chest, I'm outta there...

If you say "They don't think like that", then so be it...:shrug:

I think they would like to be able to think like that.

Now you're being disingenuous...:(
No, I'm not. I mean no disrespect. I'm just trying to get the kids in there with all this talk about the casualties not being innocent. That's just my way. :2wave:

Thanks Babe..;)
Anytime.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
It has to do with the perception of who is the freedom fighter and who is the terrorist. It depends on what part of the globe you are on. The same things you say about them, they say about us. With your "your presence endangers us" logic, we should vote out the war mongers.
Read OBL's Letter to America sometime...

Pay close attention to how everyone is guilty, not just "the warmongers"..

(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions. It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners, righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah's Word and religion reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour, sex, or language...

...(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.

We call you to all of this that you may be freed from that which you have become caught up in; that you may be freed from the deceptive lies that you are a great nation, that your leaders spread amongst you to conceal from you the despicable state to which you have reached.

(b) It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:

(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?



But according to you, we're just active participants because we elected "warmongers"...:roll:
 
cnredd said:
Read OBL's Letter to America sometime...

Pay close attention to how everyone is guilty, not just "the warmongers"..

(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

But according to you, we're just active participants because we elected "warmongers"...:roll:


That was his ad hominem attack. But if the Saudis would have let him kick Saddam out of Kuwait instead of us, he would not have attacked us. He had no problem with our freedoms when we were arming him against the USSR.

He wanted to get us riled up in a "Holy War" because he knew our imperialistic ideologies would sway world opinion against us. He has played us like a fiddle.
 
M14 Shooter said:
We didnt.
But then, we didnt attack Pakistan.


They wont see it nor play it that way.

The question is, Did the US drop a bomb on Pakistani soil without telling the Pakistani Gov?
 
I could not find an answer to the poll that I agree with. I do not condone innocent civilians to be killed but it is almost impossible to apologize for all civilian casualties. Also Pakistan seems to love to aid the terrorists there and from what I have read and heard no one there would turn in Osama Bin Laden if they ran into him. They think him a matryr or something similar. I do feel terrible hearing children were killed. Unfortunatly too many times they get caught in the crossfire. and I hope I don't sound harsh or too cynical, because I really try not to be, but how do we not know they were being trained to be future 'america haters' too?

btw -this is off topic but does anyone have an ACCURATE and current number of civilians killed in Iraq. I always here conflicting numbers but I want the truth damm it!
 
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