• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Sorry Anti-Choicers - SCOTUS is wrong. (2 Viewers)

I don't think anyone wants to be the party of Pajama Boi.



Sure it does. Right now, Republicans control:

The White House
The House of Representatives
The Senate
The Supreme Court
27 out of 50 governorships
31 out of 50 state legislatures





No, you really don't. You've conceded this issue to the Republicans thinking that abortion on demand for birth control is a winning issue.

And it really isn't.

It's another example of how polarized and radicalized both parties have become.
Let the right wing uneducated people vote for Republicans who will end their safety net, take away the profitability or survival of their small farms or small businesses, and then let them scream about owning the libs. That is apparently what it will take to make them stop preferring owning the libs to their own survival.
 
Then why is Gosnell in prison?


And I answered it.

And I answered it.


I've xplained it to you multiple times. That you don't want it to be true is your issue.

For those coming in late.

There is no "right to privacy" hidden in the Constitution.
The issue of fetal personhood is still very much one open to discussion.
Fetal personhood has never been a winning issue and it will not become law. There are so many reasons for this that I refuse to list them for you. The only state that has come close to making fetuses persons is Alabama, and the only reason is that the legislature is more conservative than the population. When people found out that the Alabama law called IVF in question, they started rebelling. The fetal personhood movement is ridiculous.
 
No, you really don't. You've conceded this issue to the Republicans thinking that abortion on demand for birth control is a winning issue.

You have finally resorted to lying...


.
 
I like this, but I'm not so sure. If the man uses physical force and the woman didn't, then I think that alcohol was not the only problem, and I choose to claim that anyone who uses physical violent aggression against the other party was indeed the rapist in that case.

I was only comparing being drunk to the analogy. I would also say that if she uses physical force against him then that is also rape.

Works equally for both sexes, in my comparisons. Although, women using force to rape a man is about non-existent.
 
Then they should make good life They do….

Um, go to a prison sometime, find out what percentage of those guys grew up without fathers. Study after study have shown that children raised in single-parent families do worse in school and life than those who had two parents

The Chinese are beating us because they have traditional families. They have an illegitimacy rate of less than 1%. (They also have a lot of abortions because of the mandates of the One Child Policy, but that's a separate discussion.) While we graduate 20% of kids who can't read their diplomas, the Chinese are very good at math and science.

He killed fetuses in botched abortions past the 24 week limit. That's why he's in jail.



I'm not arguing that one way or the other. I'm pointing out that Roe was a flawed decision because 1) It made up a right to privacy that isn't there and 2) It refused to rule on the issue of when life begins.

Hence, why it's never really been accepted by even those who favor abortion rights in some circumstances.



I'm hardly being "hysteric" (amusing term coming on this topic) to point out that our modern morals have damaged the fabric of our society.
I totally understand. We need the good old morals where Black people were defined as inferior human beings and women were subservient to men.
Actually, it sounds to me like you’re a little threatened by women.
 
Keep whistling past the graveyard.

You're scaring the straights.
I threw away about 30 acorns this morning. I guess I destroyed a forest.
 
Fetal personhood has never been a winning issue and it will not become law. There are so many reasons for this that I refuse to list them for you. The only state that has come close to making fetuses persons is Alabama, and the only reason is that the legislature is more conservative than the population. When people found out that the Alabama law called IVF in question, they started rebelling. The fetal personhood movement is ridiculous.
If a fetus is a child, why can’t a woman write it off as a tax deduction
 
Not sure how you get from A to Z on that one, but you do you.

Strong families, people taking responsibility and not expecting a hand-out from the government, hard work, owning up to your responsibilities.

You know, not THIS GUY:

View attachment 67565017

Seriously, somoene in the Obama Administration thought this Self-own was a good idea.



Not for the child, if the child is a person.



Wow, you don't know many Chinese, do you.

Of course, one of the great shames in Chinese culture is to be a shèng nán (Leftover woman) or a shèng nán (leftover man)
Isn’t it responsible for a woman to have an abortion because she doesn’t want to take a handout from the government? Why don’t you get as upset over the father of the child who should have to pay child support for 18 years?
And a zygote, an embryo and a fetus are not a child. This is called personification.
 
That's what the Confederates said about slaves.

Talk to any pregnant woman who wants her baby. It's a baby to her.
That’s very common because it is wanted. When I was pregnant it was a baby to me..planned and I was able to provide for it. I personified it.
It reminds me of people who call their dogs, their babies….(me)
It seems to me that you are talking out of both sides you want a woman to be forced to breed against her will, and then you get angry because she is taking the responsibility and not letting it develop because she knows she cannot provide for it. So basically you’re saying you want this irresponsible woman who knows she cannot provide for a child to be forced to let it develop and then once it is born, you couldn’t give a crap.
 
I don't think anyone wants to be the party of Pajama Boi.

Lie some more. We can clearly see that you hate women and want to turn them into breeding chattel.

 
You can discuss it all you want. The current situation at the federal level is solid...there are no rights recognized for the unborn and they are not legally considered persons. We can pass legislation that unicorns exist too...feel free to wait.

Um, did you check out who is running the Federal Government right now?

That doesn't mean that a professional salary can't support a family. These wives are not working because they have to.

I guess. I think it would be nice if we could go back to a system where one parent (not necessarily the wife) stays home and takes care of the kids. Everyone loved staying home during Covid.

In the white collar jobs that was true, but most industrial manufacturing, think steel, paper, wood products, automobiles, were not open to women in the 60's. Feminism was not a factor in those industries going to other countries.

Again- we lost more jobs to automation than outsourcing. Since you brought up paper, I worked in the corrugated box industry for 8 years. Nearly every factory I saw was in the US, and they were all nearly completely automated. Just one guy walking from machine to machine to check computer settings.

That sounds exactly like the eugenics Margaret Sanger promoted.

Or common sense. If a guy has no job, smokes pot, and plays video games all day, these are not the kinds of genes you want to be reproducing.

And "guys like you" all promote safety nets that pay for almost nothing and demean the recipients in the bargain. Workhouses appear to be the ultimate goal.

Okay, let's talk about that. Last Condo association I lived in, we had Section 8 Families who got their rent completely paid by the government while I was going out to work every day. These people got SNAP, TANF, sometimes disability payments.

When I went to the Social Security office to get my wife's name updated, the room was full of people who were neither elderly nor disabled.

We spend close to 3 Trillion dollars a year on the Safety Net.

I didn't vote for Trump, but I can certainly feel the frustration of people who did.
 
Lie some more. We can clearly see that you hate women and want to turn them into breeding chattel.

I'm not the one who put Pajama Boi up as your mascot to sell Obamacare. It was like the most amazing self-own, but someone thought it was a good idea.
 
Let the right wing uneducated people vote for Republicans who will end their safety net, take away the profitability or survival of their small farms or small businesses, and then let them scream about owning the libs. That is apparently what it will take to make them stop preferring owning the libs to their own survival.

Ah, but here's the rub.

Yes, when the economy goes bad, people consider the Democrats. It's how Clinton got elected, and Obama, and even Biden. And to their credit, Democrats do a pretty good job of fixing the economy.

But when the economy recovers somewhat, average folks, not just right-wingers, realize Democrats stand for some pretty crazy stuff.
 
That’s very common because it is wanted. When I was pregnant it was a baby to me..planned and I was able to provide for it. I personified it.
It reminds me of people who call their dogs, their babies….(me)
It seems to me that you are talking out of both sides you want a woman to be forced to breed against her will, and then you get angry because she is taking the responsibility and not letting it develop because she knows she cannot provide for it. So basically you’re saying you want this irresponsible woman who knows she cannot provide for a child to be forced to let it develop and then once it is born, you couldn’t give a crap.

Okay, you aren't seeing the illogic here.

A fetus is only a person if it's wanted?

Do homeless people stop being people because no one wants them?

What I want is personal responsibility. It seems that we have forgotten what that is in this country.
 
And we're back to stupid women that need laws made by men to control their behavior.

Um, I see a lot of women in the pro-life movement. but I'm sure you see them as Gender-traitors. Elective Abortion is the Holy Sacrement of Modern Feminism. That and being a lesbian.

Not all marriages are slavery, but all pregnancy is servitude - get over it.

Wow, seriously? I mean, I can't even make fun of that, it's so stupid.

Of course their are implied rights. The right to private property presumes that there is private ownership, and that implies that some things are private and some are not. The right to life assumes that there is such a thing as a private body and/or mind that can have such a right. If there is no private body or mind, there is no such right.

Well, I go back to the point that if anything can be taken away from you, then it isn't a right; it's a privilege. (George Carlin did a great routine on this point.) But since you don't have a right to your own body in other areas of law (drugs, prostittuion, assisted suicide) then you don't have one in abortion.

If every doctor faced with this situation had time to do such tests before performing an abortion, that would be one thing. As they don't have time to do that in an emergency, if you take that line, no doctors will be willing to work in any situation where they have to attend a birth, and if they are required to do that to be a doctor, no one will go to medical school and you can drop dead of any physical problem due to the absence of doctors.

Most abortions are elective.

A considerable majority of people in this nation did not want Roe v Wade overturned. Last I looked, it was anywhere between 63 and 70+%. I don't think that a percentage under 40 is all that much.

Not really true. Abortion on demand for any reason doesn't poll that high. A total ban on abortion doesn't poll that high. Somewhere in the middle, most people favor abortion under some circumstances, but would like to see it banned in others.

It's why the pro-abortion crowd just can't stop talking about rape, because they know that birth control abortions are indefensible.

Bei Bei Shuai didn't do time for killing a fetus. Read what she was accused of, about the change of charge, and the outcome. She was convicted of criminal recklessness, not criminally negligent homicide.

She was initially charged and imprisoned for fetal homicide. They pled her down to a lower charge and time served.

Single parents didn't "let" kids join gangs - gangs ran the neighborhood and the working parents could get the cops to get rid of them.

You think people in the slums are working. That's adorable.

The cops can't get rid of the gangs because they are all afraid of joining Darren Chauvin in prison.


That's because Asian Americans usually can live in neighborhoods without gangs or have gangs that don't interfere with the parents' emphasis on education.

Oh, and FYI, if the Asian Americans are East Asians, I guarantee they have a pretty liberal view of abortion because they are rarely Catholics OR Evangelicals.

Well, depends on the nationality. For instance, China has lot of abortions because of the one-child policy and people doing gender selection abortions. If it was common in this country, even the feminists would be screaming bloody murder about it. But in their culture, it makes sense. Boys can provide for their parents in old age, girls are a burden.

Japan had 126K abortions last year. It's a lower per capita rate than the US, because out-of-wedlock sex is frowned upon, and they have an illegitimacy rate of less than 1%

Conversely, talking about Asians who ARE Catholic, the Philippines has a higher abortion rate than the US, despite being very catholic and abortion being illegal.
 
I totally understand. We need the good old morals where Black people were defined as inferior human beings and women were subservient to men.
Actually, it sounds to me like you’re a little threatened by women.

Naw, very little threatens me.

Actually, some of the better bosses I've had have been women.

Not sure how you equate stable families with racism.

The worst thing that happened to black people is when they replaced fathers with the government.
 
Naw, very little threatens me.
Actually, some of the better bosses I've had have been women.
Not sure how you equate stable families with racism.
The worst thing that happened to black people is when they replaced fathers with the government.
Um, I see a lot of women in the pro-life movement. but I'm sure you see them as Gender-traitors. Elective Abortion is the Holy Sacrement of Modern Feminism. That and being a lesbian.
Wow, seriously? I mean, I can't even make fun of that, it's so stupid.

Well, I go back to the point that if anything can be taken away from you, then it isn't a right; it's a privilege. (George Carlin did a great routine on this point.) But since you don't have a right to your own body in other areas of law (drugs, prostittuion, assisted suicide) then you don't have one in abortion.
Most abortions are elective.

Not really true. Abortion on demand for any reason doesn't poll that high. A total ban on abortion doesn't poll that high. Somewhere in the middle, most people favor abortion under some circumstances, but would like to see it banned in others.

It's why the pro-abortion crowd just can't stop talking about rape, because they know that birth control abortions are indefensible.

She was initially charged and imprisoned for fetal homicide. They pled her down to a lower charge and time served.

You think people in the slums are working. That's adorable.

The cops can't get rid of the gangs because they are all afraid of joining Darren Chauvin in prison.
We are very fortunate to have JoeB here to straighten out everybody's invalid opinions about women, morality, abortion, minorities, paper mills, pregnancy and welfare. /s
 
Um, did you check out who is running the Federal Government right now?

What does that have to do with it? That doesnt answer the question (see bold):

The current situation at the federal level is solid...there are no rights recognized for the unborn and they are not legally considered persons. We can pass legislation that unicorns exist too...feel free to wait.​
Since you cant even explain why abortion is wrong...there's no reason for Congress to address it and introduce changes to the Constitution. Why would Congress want to create fetal personhood?
But at least you finally gave up on Gosnell...until the next time you hope no one remembers and you bring up that failed example again. :rolleyes:
 
The bullshit is that abortion on demand has become a central tenet of liberalism.
"Where is your argument why women shouldnt have abortions? Please dont bother with further attempts at arguments (they keep failing) since they're all based on abortion being wrong. Who says so? Not the majority of Americans who support elective abortion. (Already proven with citations.) If you cant support the foundation of your arguments...they continue to be worthless."
 
Naw, very little threatens me.

Actually, some of the better bosses I've had have been women.

Not sure how you equate stable families with racism.

The worst thing that happened to black people is when they replaced fathers with the government.
Let’s lump all blacks together. and let’s pretend that black men have the same opportunities as white men.
 
Um, I see a lot of women in the pro-life movement. but I'm sure you see them as Gender-traitors. Elective Abortion is the Holy Sacrement of Modern Feminism. That and being a lesbian.



Wow, seriously? I mean, I can't even make fun of that, it's so stupid.



Well, I go back to the point that if anything can be taken away from you, then it isn't a right; it's a privilege. (George Carlin did a great routine on this point.) But since you don't have a right to your own body in other areas of law (drugs, prostittuion, assisted suicide) then you don't have one in abortion.



Most abortions are elective.



Not really true. Abortion on demand for any reason doesn't poll that high. A total ban on abortion doesn't poll that high. Somewhere in the middle, most people favor abortion under some circumstances, but would like to see it banned in others.

It's why the pro-abortion crowd just can't stop talking about rape, because they know that birth control abortions are indefensible.



She was initially charged and imprisoned for fetal homicide. They pled her down to a lower charge and time served.



You think people in the slums are working. That's adorable.

The cops can't get rid of the gangs because they are all afraid of joining Darren Chauvin in prison.




Well, depends on the nationality. For instance, China has lot of abortions because of the one-child policy and people doing gender selection abortions. If it was common in this country, even the feminists would be screaming bloody murder about it. But in their culture, it makes sense. Boys can provide for their parents in old age, girls are a burden.

Japan had 126K abortions last year. It's a lower per capita rate than the US, because out-of-wedlock sex is frowned upon, and they have an illegitimacy rate of less than 1%

Conversely, talking about Asians who ARE Catholic, the Philippines has a higher abortion

rate than the US, despite being very catholic and abortion being illegal.
Wow…you really an extremist. yes women elect to have abortions that is their choice . Abortion is the responsible path. Women know they can’t be responsible enough to raise a child so they don’t let it develop …when most women have abortions the fetus weighs less than an ounce.
It’s pretty sad that you think people in the “slums“Don’t work….what is a slum to you.
Do you really think that in America males provide for their parents and women are just a burden? Males have probably made more money in the past, but the burden of caring for the mother physically was usually the woman..
If a abortion was affordable, there would be fewer children out of wedlock
 
Okay, you aren't seeing the illogic here.

A fetus is only a person if it's wanted?

Do homeless people stop being people because no one wants them?

What I want is personal responsibility. It seems that we have forgotten what that is in this country.
Look up the word personification because that’s what you’re doing with aZEF. And that’s what pregnant women when they want to have a child
And you are saying that a homeless person is the same as an embryo. I guess you can’t differentiate.
Personal responsibility is having an abortion when you know you cannot afford a child and don’t want one. Are you willing to support children mother’s can’t afford them.?
 
Really?

I hate Trump, but if some foreigners tried to come into my country and tell me my business, I'd be the first one to fight them.

Elections have consequences.

As for your silly statement that the Japanese Ambassador offered to stay.


On August 20, 1942, Nomura returned to Japan. He continued to serve in an unofficial capacity as an advisor to the government through World War II, and he was appointed to the Privy Council in May 1945.


After the bombing of Pearl Harbor, Kurusu was interned in the United States at Hot Springs, Virginia,[18] until the United States and Japan negotiated an exchange of their diplomatic personnel and citizens. In June 1942, Kurusu sailed to Portuguese Mozambique on board the ocean liner MS Gripsholm, which then brought back American ambassador to Japan Joseph Grew and other Americans who had been interned in Japan. Following the Allied victory in Japan, the American military tribunal elected in February 1946 decided not to prosecute either Kurusu or Nomura
Sorry it took so long to find this again. This isn't my area of Japanese studies, but -

You misunderstand the situations of Nomura, Kurusu, and Grew. Nomura and Grew were both ambassadors - Kurusu was sent later as a special envoy, though I don't recall his title.


Nomura had been sent as ambassador half a year before Pearl Harbor with a pacifistic goal - persuade the US against war with the Japanese - and Kurusu was sent much later with the same goal. Neither knew anything about the secret Pearl Harbor attack plan, and the notice immediately preceding it came as a surprise and too late for timely translation and notification of the State Department and POTUS. Nomura had been committed to the goal and made good friends with upper echelon US government officials who didn't want war with the Japanese, either, so this would have been particularly humiliating.

Not long after Pearl Harbor, there was an apparent possibility for Nomura and Kurusu to leave earlier. However, that passed and they stayed until the POW exchange for their US counterparts. Nomura wasn't special in believing Japan could not win a war with the US. Admiral Yamamoto, in suggesting a Pearl Harbor attack early in 1941, thought it would allow Japan to hold out only for six months. Lots of Japanese had this view. In this context, Nomura in the aftermath of PH could have seen staying until the POW exchange occurred as not all that coercive, and for a reason.

Nomura and Kurusu weren't holed up in the Japanese Embassy compound in Washington, DC, as US Ambassador Grew in Tokyo was in the US Embassy compound. Both were held in house-arrest situations/ The US government gave Nomura and Kurusu a much better situation in Hot Springs, VA, where they received periodic visits from American government friends from the capital. Nomura would have been helpful for those government friends in explaining aspects of Japanese war behavior puzzling in those days when so few Americans were Japan specialists.

Theirs was also better than the situation of the US consul general and staff in Osaka - for complex reasons, the ;latter had made friends with the local police, who allowed them to stay in house arrest in their home and not have to go to the major hotel where other consuls general did. They had regular contact with these friends and also neighbors and went on supervised hiking and shopping excursions.

Nomura and Kurusu had expressed a desire for no war before PH and Nomura, at least, had hoped that the war would be really short and knew Japan would not win. His expression of hope to be helpful in ending it that way was not weird or anything. Nothing could have justified prosecuting either man as culpable in the Tokyo war crimes trials.
 
What does that have to do with it? That doesnt answer the question (see bold):
Sure it does. It just isn't what you want to hear because it doesn't validate your worldview.

Wow…you really an extremist. yes women elect to have abortions that is their choice . Abortion is the responsible path. Women know they can’t be responsible enough to raise a child so they don’t let it develop …when most women have abortions the fetus weighs less than an ounce.
It’s pretty sad that you think people in the “slums“Don’t work….what is a slum to you.

East side and south side of Chicago. That's a slum to me. A place you wouldn't go at night and would probably think twice about going to during the day.

Do you really think that in America males provide for their parents and women are just a burden? Males have probably made more money in the past, but the burden of caring for the mother physically was usually the woman..
If a abortion was affordable, there would be fewer children out of wedlock

Wow, you are late to the conversation. IN 1970, when abortion was still illegal, the out of wedlock birth rate was only 10%.

Today it's close to 40%.

It's 72% for African Americans.


Look up the word personification because that’s what you’re doing with aZEF. And that’s what pregnant women when they want to have a child

Or the pro-abortion types are in denial about the humanity of fetuses.

And you are saying that a homeless person is the same as an embryo. I guess you can’t differentiate.

Actually, a embryo has the potential to be something. A homeless person has failed. The reason why we have a homeless problem is because some liberal do-gooders decided that institutions were bad, so let's let them all out on the street.

I remember when this happened in the 1970s, and we went from being able to walk to the store to get stuff to having to deal with collected stewbums gathering around the liquor shop waiting to score their bottle of MD 20/20.

Personal responsibility is having an abortion when you know you cannot afford a child and don’t want one. Are you willing to support children mother’s can’t afford them.?

No, personal responsibility is not having sex with a man who won't provide for you.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom