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Something I see missing in the Ukrainian response: calls for conservation

Craig234

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The Russian economy is dominated by oil. Europe gets 40% of their oil from Russia. For all the sanctions we're doing, that oil is largely intact, providing a lot of money to Russia. the US cut it off, and it talking to other countries about increasing sales. But they say there's not enough oil to replace Russia's.

So what I see missing in all this is why leader in the US and Europe aren't promoting conservation - using less oil - to try to help the situation and allow buying less from Russia. Make it a message that each time you don't drive you are helping to need less oil, which can help Ukraine. Why isn't that part of the message - is it that the politicians are afraid of upsetting voters? Treating them like spoiled children, just because many act like it on things like masks?
 

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The Russian economy is dominated by oil. Europe gets 40% of their oil from Russia. For all the sanctions we're doing, that oil is largely intact, providing a lot of money to Russia. the US cut it off, and it talking to other countries about increasing sales. But they say there's not enough oil to replace Russia's.

So what I see missing in all this is why leader in the US and Europe aren't promoting conservation - using less oil - to try to help the situation and allow buying less from Russia. Make it a message that each time you don't drive you are helping to need less oil, which can help Ukraine. Why isn't that part of the message - is it that the politicians are afraid of upsetting voters? Treating them like spoiled children, just because many act like it on things like masks?

Calls for conservation?

Seriously?
 

CaughtInThe

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i think because during a war/invasion you're just trying to stay alive/save the country in the short term.
 

Craig234

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i think because during a war/invasion you're just trying to stay alive/save the country in the short term.
I'm not talking about UKRANIANS driving less, I'm talking about the US and Europe. We're not at war. It's a small sacrifice that would help.
 

CaughtInThe

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I'm not talking about UKRANIANS driving less, I'm talking about the US and Europe. We're not at war. It's a small sacrifice that would help.
my wife and i were talking a few days ago about how the roads were suddenly packed again. people are simply going back to their offices.
 

StillBallin75

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I'm not talking about UKRANIANS driving less, I'm talking about the US and Europe. We're not at war. It's a small sacrifice that would help.
Well keeping work-from-home a thing would alleviate a lot of this but corporations want their office rents to mean something so back to the office we go.
 

Buckeyes85

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I'm not talking about UKRANIANS driving less, I'm talking about the US and Europe. We're not at war. It's a small sacrifice that would help.
But would it in fact help? Who is to say the oil we don't use would be oil we would have bought from Russia?
Also bear in mind, we have a large swath of Americans right now who refused to do the simplest things in the world that would have directly benefited them. Kinda' silly to assume the same folks would go out of their way, inconvenience themselves for a foreign nation.
 

Craig234

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But would it in fact help? Who is to say the oil we don't use would be oil we would have bought from Russia?

Seriously? The problem is, the total demand for oil exceeds the supply without Russia's. Every bit not used, makes it easier to buy less from Russia.

Also bear in mind, we have a large swath of Americans right now who refused to do the simplest things in the world that would have directly benefited them. Kinda' silly to assume the same folks would go out of their way, inconvenience themselves for a foreign nation.

No doubt we'd have some Americans say they're driving MORE because screw Biden go Brandon on 'Putin rides', but my point was why leaders aren't asking for it.
 

FreedomFromAll

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I'm not talking about UKRANIANS driving less, I'm talking about the US and Europe. We're not at war. It's a small sacrifice that would help.
But we are at war right now.

We are in a proxy war with Russia. Also, we are in a cold war with Russia.

Add to that Putin's willingness to threaten nuclear destruction. And his use of purposely killing civilians to terrorize into submission. Indeed it is war and we are in it. And welp we already have sacrificed a lot of integrity already to stop the nukes. We are not willing to turn a blind eye and hope that reducing our spending on Russian oil might stop the third or fourth country Putin takes over.
 

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. . . . No doubt we'd have some Americans say they're driving MORE because screw Biden go Brandon on 'Putin rides', but my point was why leaders aren't asking for it.
I'm somewhat wealthy, so the price of oil/gasoline doesn't really matter to me. Whether gasoline is $4.69/gal or $6.09/gal . . . Who cares???

However I imagine that gasoline prices really matter to the working-class people, and those on fixed incomes.

I feel kinda bad for those folks. :cry:
 

Craig234

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I'm somewhat wealthy, so the price of oil/gasoline doesn't really matter to me. Whether gasoline is $4.69/gal or $6.09/gal . . . Who cares???

However I imagine that gasoline prices really matter to the working-class people, and those on fixed incomes.

I feel kinda bad for those folks. :cry:
OK, but that has nothing to do with my comments.
 

Michael Cole

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Seriously? The problem is, the total demand for oil exceeds the supply without Russia's. Every bit not used, makes it easier to buy less from Russia.



No doubt we'd have some Americans say they're driving MORE because screw Biden go Brandon on 'Putin rides', but my point was why leaders aren't asking for it.
I don't need "leaders" to advise me on energy usage. I can figure it out on my own. But for honest, credible, smart, sober analysis and advice, you can't beat Beau.



And you answered your own question, before you asked it.

No doubt we'd have some Americans say they're driving MORE because screw Biden go Brandon on 'Putin rides', but my point was why leaders aren't asking for it.
 
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jcgriff2

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The Russian economy is dominated by oil. Europe gets 40% of their oil from Russia. For all the sanctions we're doing, that oil is largely intact, providing a lot of money to Russia. the US cut it off, and it talking to other countries about increasing sales. But they say there's not enough oil to replace Russia's.

So what I see missing in all this is why leader in the US and Europe aren't promoting conservation - using less oil - to try to help the situation and allow buying less from Russia. Make it a message that each time you don't drive you are helping to need less oil, which can help Ukraine. Why isn't that part of the message - is it that the politicians are afraid of upsetting voters? Treating them like spoiled children, just because many act like it on things like masks?
Biden could lower the national speed limit back to 55 mph again, although that initially caused major backups and delays when done last time (we could try it just for ~8 months this time though - perfect!). It would also aid in the trucker's convoys. I mean -- what trooper is going to give someone like a trucker a ticket for doing a life-saving 35/55 even if DC spurs are backed up to New Mexico right now?

Voters would definitely be part of Biden's current energy policy - US inhabitants only, of course. Biden will look the other way for non-US violators or members of BLM or illegal aliens who are not US citizens that entered the US illegally entering the US during the last 403 years; or Spaniards entering the pre-USA in the 1500s and built churches.

Now is not the time for conservation of anything. Would it not be a good idea to allow Ukraine to rebuild first, if at all possible, before worrying about farcical items that likely will be going nowhere for a very long time now? Ukraine should wait to go 'oil-free' until after both China and Russia do. Meanwhile, Ukraine can ramp up construction on all of the proposed new nuclear power stations.

As for the US, 30x30 is insanity right now unless Biden wants 'spent' land. No problem if so. Then drilling may be able to begin. Nothing worse than losing good land, per geologists.

At least coward Sweden is getting into the swing of things for a swing in things - monetarily, anyway, as zero or less are looking for a 3rd neutrality in what could be a major conflict soon enough. Very few that I know are interested in protecting their "neutral ass" for a 3rd time now in ~110 years like Sweden will likely seek, assuming things go hot.

It is the least that they can do -- for starters - https://news.yahoo.com/applying-join-nato-destabilize-security-152639747.html

1646907710255.png
 

Roadvirus

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The Russian economy is dominated by oil. Europe gets 40% of their oil from Russia. For all the sanctions we're doing, that oil is largely intact, providing a lot of money to Russia. the US cut it off, and it talking to other countries about increasing sales. But they say there's not enough oil to replace Russia's.

So what I see missing in all this is why leader in the US and Europe aren't promoting conservation - using less oil - to try to help the situation and allow buying less from Russia. Make it a message that each time you don't drive you are helping to need less oil, which can help Ukraine. Why isn't that part of the message - is it that the politicians are afraid of upsetting voters? Treating them like spoiled children, just because many act like it on things like masks?
The German Jerkoffs are shutting down their nuke plants. So much for conservation/using less oil.
 

The AntiDonald

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But we are at war right now.

We are in a proxy war with Russia. Also, we are in a cold war with Russia.

Add to that Putin's willingness to threaten nuclear destruction. And his use of purposely killing civilians to terrorize into submission. Indeed it is war and we are in it. And welp we already have sacrificed a lot of integrity already to stop the nukes. We are not willing to turn a blind eye and hope that reducing our spending on Russian oil might stop the third or fourth country Putin takes over.
Our overall reduction on energy here would help impact the prices everywhere. It makes sense. The problem is no one is willing to give up their luxuries. I for one started adjusting to the higher prices a few months ago. If you work at it a little bit, it's not that hard. At this point, the government should be curtailing energy use. There are plenty of ways to do it.
 

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Our overall reduction on energy here would help impact the prices everywhere. It makes sense. The problem is no one is willing to give up their luxuries. I for one started adjusting to the higher prices a few months ago. If you work at it a little bit, it's not that hard. At this point, the government should be curtailing energy use. There are plenty of ways to do it.
Meanwhile, we are worried about Putin using chemical weapons now. Sanctions are a long-term strategy, they are not going to stop Ukrainians from dying today or tomorrow; possibly months down the road. By then how many dead Ukrainians are we looking at? Millions?

Putin has already determined that we have engaged in acts of war against Russia. We are either in store for a preemptive missile attack (ie nukes) or Putin is going to lay waste to the Ukraine population with our collective thumbs up our asses. Jumping at commend and doing what Putin demands every time that he threatens to nuke us is terrorism. Appeasing terrorists does not work. What it does is create more terrorism.

The situation with Putin is not sustainable, it will escalate to a hot war between NATO and Russia. Some extremely hard choices will need to be made and whatever you have sacrificed is completely irrelevant. I mean that's great that you have enough wealth to weather the storm, but the only thing for me to "give up" would leave me homeless/starving. But feel free to crow about how you are giving crap up for the cause.
 

The AntiDonald

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Meanwhile, we are worried about Putin using chemical weapons now. Sanctions are a long-term strategy, they are not going to stop Ukrainians from dying today or tomorrow; possibly months down the road. By then how many dead Ukrainians are we looking at? Millions?

Putin has already determined that we have engaged in acts of war against Russia. We are either in store for a preemptive missile attack (ie nukes) or Putin is going to lay waste to the Ukraine population with our collective thumbs up our asses. Jumping at commend and doing what Putin demands every time that he threatens to nuke us is terrorism. Appeasing terrorists does not work. What it does is create more terrorism.

The situation with Putin is not sustainable, it will escalate to a hot war between NATO and Russia. Some extremely hard choices will need to be made and whatever you have sacrificed is completely irrelevant. I mean that's great that you have enough wealth to weather the storm, but the only thing for me to "give up" would leave me homeless/starving. But feel free to crow about how you are giving crap up for the cause.
My adjustments have nothing to do with the Ukrainian war. It's about survival here in the US. I started cutting back in general months before the war started. I fully realize that my abstinence is not helping the Ukrainians. It's helping me. Not to diminish the terrible situation over in Ukraine. I feel for those folks.

The bottom line is if all Americans would just cut back a little, it would reduce demand, therefor reduce inflation. I was on my way to a job the other morning and traffic was the same as it was pre-Covid. Gas prices at $4.50/gal and no one is slowing down here.
 

What if...?

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Biden could lower the national speed limit back to 55 mph again, although that initially caused major backups and delays when done last time (we could try it just for ~8 months this time though - perfect!). It would also aid in the trucker's convoys. I mean -- what trooper is going to give someone like a trucker a ticket for doing a life-saving 35/55 even if DC spurs are backed up to New Mexico right now?

Voters would definitely be part of Biden's current energy policy - US inhabitants only, of course. Biden will look the other way for non-US violators or members of BLM or illegal aliens who are not US citizens that entered the US illegally entering the US during the last 403 years; or Spaniards entering the pre-USA in the 1500s and built churches.

Now is not the time for conservation of anything. Would it not be a good idea to allow Ukraine to rebuild first, if at all possible, before worrying about farcical items that likely will be going nowhere for a very long time now? Ukraine should wait to go 'oil-free' until after both China and Russia do. Meanwhile, Ukraine can ramp up construction on all of the proposed new nuclear power stations.

As for the US, 30x30 is insanity right now unless Biden wants 'spent' land. No problem if so. Then drilling may be able to begin. Nothing worse than losing good land, per geologists.

At least coward Sweden is getting into the swing of things for a swing in things - monetarily, anyway, as zero or less are looking for a 3rd neutrality in what could be a major conflict soon enough. Very few that I know are interested in protecting their "neutral ass" for a 3rd time now in ~110 years like Sweden will likely seek, assuming things go hot.

It is the least that they can do -- for starters - https://news.yahoo.com/applying-join-nato-destabilize-security-152639747.html

A big part of the 55 limit was the insurance lobby. Big old American cars were destroying little Japanese cars in accidents and costing them big payouts.
 

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What behavior, specifically, do you want individuals to change?
 

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My adjustments have nothing to do with the Ukrainian war. It's about survival here in the US. I started cutting back in general months before the war started. I fully realize that my abstinence is not helping the Ukrainians. It's helping me. Not to diminish the terrible situation over in Ukraine. I feel for those folks.

The bottom line is if all Americans would just cut back a little, it would reduce demand, therefor reduce inflation. I was on my way to a job the other morning and traffic was the same as it was pre-Covid. Gas prices at $4.50/gal and no one is slowing down here.

I guess that you will be feeling for those folks as they die, while you feel all good about yourself for your "abstinence". I know that sounds harsh but come on people's lives are more important than whatever it is that you think that you are doing.

And you are completely out of touch if you do not realize high fuel costs mean many Americans do not actually have luxuries to abstain from. Sooner than later everyone is going to be cutting back, it's just people like you won't be deciding on food or rent yet. FFS rich people think that they are saving the world by not spending their money foolishly like they normally do on luxuries.
 

The Old Soul

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The Russian economy is dominated by oil. Europe gets 40% of their oil from Russia. For all the sanctions we're doing, that oil is largely intact, providing a lot of money to Russia. the US cut it off, and it talking to other countries about increasing sales. But they say there's not enough oil to replace Russia's.

So what I see missing in all this is why leader in the US and Europe aren't promoting conservation - using less oil - to try to help the situation and allow buying less from Russia. Make it a message that each time you don't drive you are helping to need less oil, which can help Ukraine. Why isn't that part of the message - is it that the politicians are afraid of upsetting voters? Treating them like spoiled children, just because many act like it on things like masks?
Been saying the same thing ever since the numbers started rolling in; a 6%~10% reduction by U.S. consumers (and the rest of the world) to offset some of the quantity of petroleum products exported by Russia is fairly easy to achieve with a bit of belt tightening that would be good to do anyway.

2 degrees on the thermostat, preplanning to consolidate multiple trips to the store, and avoiding long waits at drive-throughs would probably about do it - easy enough. Instead of driving to the gym, take one day and walk, jog, or bicycle for an hour...there are many things to not only decrease our energy consumption, but eliminate some of the waste we are all guilty of.
 
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