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Some thoughts on the existence of God

George_Washington

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I was thinking to myself the other day that the most obvious proof that there is a God is the simple notion of love. I have announced on here before that I am Catholic, which I am, but I am speaking more of the basic belief in a higher power rather than an endorsement of mine or any other particular faith.

Think about it: The concept of love appears to be the strongest force in the Universe. Love is what has motivated people to go to war, steal, cheat, lie, kill, and more. It reminds me of that Beatles song, "All you need is love..."

What kind of, "scientific" proof could anyone conjure up that would explain the awkwardness, the insecurity, the confusion, and all of that illusory stuff? Who could really explain the whole experience of love and how it hurts when you're not with that other person? Who could possibly explain how somebody can love another person for what they are or almost are and no matter what they do or say? The very concept of love is highly irrational yet also, highly logical.

This powerful force known as love, I think, really proves that there are forces that exist greater than ourselves and even than the entire Universe. I think if we were really to give up our faith in love, feelings, and God, we would be denying ourselves a lot of happiness.
 

Sir_Alec

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People gotta stop saying love is proof of god. Basically, what you are saying is becuase we don't understand where love comes from means there is a god. How smart! Its just like an atheist saying that with so much hate in the world there must be NO god. Its a bad statement with no intelligence backing it. I'm non-religious so I don't speak for an individual religion.
 

MrFungus420

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When it takes as long, and requires the resources that it does for humans to raise their children to the point of being self-sufficient, it makes sense for there to be something that helps keep a family unit together. One could even say that it is an evolutionary advantage.

It's generally considered that there are three stages to love: lust, attraction and attachment. Each stage is characterized by different hormones.

Lust is fairly short lived, it is associated with increased testosterone levels (yes, in women as well as men).

Attraction is the intermediate stage. It is longer lasting than lust. It is associated with increased levels of dopamine and norepinephrine, and decreased levels of seratonin.

Attachment is the long term feelings that we generally call love. It is associated with increased levels of oxytocin and vasopressin.

Simple biochemistry, no need to invoke a god.
 

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MrFungus420 said:
Simple biochemistry, no need to invoke a god.
Nothing really simple about biochemistry now is there. We should keep it honest. It is the complexity of even that which we can explain. The need for theoretic projections of them we cannot fully, that invoke a relevant fairness to the question of a higher power in existence. AKA God.
In as much as the bible tells us God is Love, we can rationally conclude there is a spiritual representation of/for its opposite hate... But then the bible speaks/warns us often of this entity also. Love compels one to do good, while hate brings forth evil manifestations... As for me I will always choose to err on the side of Love..:mrgreen:
 
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George_Washington

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MrFungus420 said:
Attachment is the long term feelings that we generally call love. It is associated with increased levels of oxytocin and vasopressin.
lmao Well, I'm sure it's that kind of viewpoint that has led to people producing award winning novels for centuries.

I could just see you proposing to a woman...

Atheist #1: Honey?

Jane: Yes?

Atheist #1: I think we should get married.

Jane: Why?

Atheist #1: Because of our associated increased levels of oxytocin and vasopressin, we should continue to exchange bodily fluids so that our chemicals will be properly balanced.

Jane: HUH??

lol Just kidding.
 
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jfuh

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Apostle13 said:
Nothing really simple about biochemistry now is there. We should keep it honest. It is the complexity of even that which we can explain. The need for theoretic projections of them we cannot fully, that invoke a relevant fairness to the question of a higher power in existence. AKA God.
In as much as the bible tells us God is Love, we can rationally conclude there is a spiritual representation of/for its opposite hate... But then the bible speaks/warns us often of this entity also. Love compels one to do good, while hate brings forth evil manifestations... As for me I will always choose to err on the side of Love..:mrgreen:
The emotion of "love" is very much a horomonal imbalance within the body that lasts for no more than 3 years give or take a month or two. It is also just as Fungus has said, oxcytoccin and vassopressin.
You're basing you're entire argument on miss-translated bible verses that were written by man then collected and edited by a roman emperor (constatine) is by no methodology or rationality that god is anything.
Philisophically, you're concept of god and anything around you could very much well be the deception of an evil genius (Decartes meditations).
 

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George_Washington said:
I was thinking to myself the other day that the most obvious proof that there is a God is the simple notion of love. I have announced on here before that I am Catholic, which I am, but I am speaking more of the basic belief in a higher power rather than an endorsement of mine or any other particular faith.

Think about it: The concept of love appears to be the strongest force in the Universe. Love is what has motivated people to go to war, steal, cheat, lie, kill, and more. It reminds me of that Beatles song, "All you need is love..."

What kind of, "scientific" proof could anyone conjure up that would explain the awkwardness, the insecurity, the confusion, and all of that illusory stuff? Who could really explain the whole experience of love and how it hurts when you're not with that other person? Who could possibly explain how somebody can love another person for what they are or almost are and no matter what they do or say? The very concept of love is highly irrational yet also, highly logical.

This powerful force known as love, I think, really proves that there are forces that exist greater than ourselves and even than the entire Universe. I think if we were really to give up our faith in love, feelings, and God, we would be denying ourselves a lot of happiness.
I suppose that you feel science is the work of the devil to decieve you then, otherwise, what is the meaning of your quotatious scientific explanation? If you are casting in doubt already of science then why the thread other then to progress your own agenda?
Ignorance is bliss.
 

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jfuh said:
I suppose that you feel science is the work of the devil to decieve you then, otherwise, what is the meaning of your quotatious scientific explanation? If you are casting in doubt already of science then why the thread other then to progress your own agenda?
Ignorance is bliss.
lol How can somebody with a bachelor's degree think that science is the work of the devil? That's not what I meant at all. The thing is, I do not believe you can sum up humanity with chemicals. If you really think you're just a lump full of chemicals, than I would think you've lead a depressing life.
 

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George_Washington said:
lol How can somebody with a bachelor's degree think that science is the work of the devil? That's not what I meant at all. The thing is, I do not believe you can sum up humanity with chemicals. If you really think you're just a lump full of chemicals, than I would think you've lead a depressing life.
Interesting use of a slippery slope.
However you asked for the "scientific" evidence, and were presented with the facts.
GUess what happens when you ingest food? Chemistry
When you get sick? Chemistry
When you take antibiotics? Chemistry
When you get drunk? Chemistry
When you feel tired? Chemistry
When you drink caffeine? Chemistry
When you take anti-depressents? Yep, you guessed it, more chemistry.
From premoidal soup that life likly began from to advanced homosapiens all life is nothing more than chemical rxns occuring.
 

George_Washington

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jfuh said:
Interesting use of a slippery slope.
However you asked for the "scientific" evidence, and were presented with the facts.
GUess what happens when you ingest food? Chemistry
When you get sick? Chemistry
When you take antibiotics? Chemistry
When you get drunk? Chemistry
When you feel tired? Chemistry
When you drink caffeine? Chemistry
When you take anti-depressents? Yep, you guessed it, more chemistry.
From premoidal soup that life likly began from to advanced homosapiens all life is nothing more than chemical rxns occuring.
Isn't it fascinating how people like yourself say everything is chemistry when we still don't fully understand what actually makes up, "chemistry"? Have you ever asked yourself what chemistry is? The entire field of chemistry is based on physics. Chemical bonds are based on what? Atoms, particles. And what goes beyond sub atomic particles aka packets of energy? Do you buy quantum mechanics or do you by string theory or neither? The truth is, there is a vast amount that we still don't know about the said subject at hand, chemistry. So if you're saying that everything is chemistry that statement is ignorant. Chemistry is simply the result of energy packets coming together, in a sense. Furthermore, humans contain electric currents besides simple chemical formulations.

So your argument that feelings and emotions are just based on, "chemistry" really doesn't hold weight, when you obviously don't really know what chemistry is. Yes, life is said to begin by amino acids forming into higher level structures but so what? Those amino acids are made of deeper, more complicated elements.
 

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George_Washington said:
Isn't it fascinating how people like yourself say everything is chemistry when we still don't fully understand what actually makes up, "chemistry"? Have you ever asked yourself what chemistry is? The entire field of chemistry is based on physics. Chemical bonds are based on what? Atoms, particles. And what goes beyond sub atomic particles aka packets of energy? Do you buy quantum mechanics or do you by string theory or neither? The truth is, there is a vast amount that we still don't know about the said subject at hand, chemistry. So if you're saying that everything is chemistry that statement is ignorant. Chemistry is simply the result of energy packets coming together, in a sense. Furthermore, humans contain electric currents besides simple chemical formulations.
If you understand chemistry to the least bit, then it is clear you are lieing. The metaphysics of elements is not in anyway associated with chemistry nor does it affect chemical rxns. I can draw from the ignorance you've shown here that your BA is obviously not in chemistry.
A plethora of knowledge is understood about chemistry. All the statments I've provided formerly are undeniable scientific facts based on chemistry. If you claim that any are false, try and stop eating for a month and see what happens to your body. Will your god save you? No, the chemical processes within your body will start to digest your own body for nutrition to the point that you can no longer function.

George_Washington said:
So your argument that feelings and emotions are just based on, "chemistry" really doesn't hold weight, when you obviously don't really know what chemistry is. Yes, life is said to begin by amino acids forming into higher level structures but so what? Those amino acids are made of deeper, more complicated elements.
More lies and irrelevance.
 

George_Washington

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jfuh said:
If you understand chemistry to the least bit, then it is clear you are lieing. The metaphysics of elements is not in anyway associated with chemistry nor does it affect chemical rxns. I can draw from the ignorance you've shown here that your BA is obviously not in chemistry.
A plethora of knowledge is understood about chemistry. All the statments I've provided formerly are undeniable scientific facts based on chemistry. If you claim that any are false, try and stop eating for a month and see what happens to your body. Will your god save you? No, the chemical processes within your body will start to digest your own body for nutrition to the point that you can no longer function.

More lies and irrelevance.
No, my BA is not in a scientific field. But you call me a liar? Ok. What makes up a hydrogen element? An electron and a proton. Right? Right. Both of these are particles. So the building blocks of chemistry are physics, which is far from being understood.
 

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George_Washington said:
No, my BA is not in a scientific field. But you call me a liar? Ok. What makes up a hydrogen element? An electron and a proton. Right? Right. Both of these are particles. So the building blocks of chemistry are physics, which is far from being understood.
Perhaps you should look up what constitutes chemistry, the energy levels that distinguish between physics and chemistry. It seems also that you understand very little about physics as well.
But as per your claim, "very little is understood about chemistry/physics". So then how certain are you of the antibiotics that you take? Try the simple experiment I told you earlier otherwise known as starvation.
Fact is your mystifieing body is nothing more than one large chemical vat of continuous chemical rxns. When those rxns cease to function, so do you.
 

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Amos 3:6
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When a disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it?
Well, if people are gonna utilize the Bible to come to the purposive conclusion that God is love, is also states that he causes evil. And just because humanity has the concept of love, how exactly does that equal out to a higher power being responsible? That's a bit like saying that since we cannot explain something, God must be responsible.
 

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jfuh said:
Perhaps you should look up what constitutes chemistry, the energy levels that distinguish between physics and chemistry. It seems also that you understand very little about physics as well.
But as per your claim, "very little is understood about chemistry/physics". So then how certain are you of the antibiotics that you take? Try the simple experiment I told you earlier otherwise known as starvation.
Fact is your mystifieing body is nothing more than one large chemical vat of continuous chemical rxns. When those rxns cease to function, so do you.
Oh, antibiotics? LOL! My own medical doctor rarely perscribes antibiotics because they don't work in all cases and they also lower your immunity over time. So why do you keep trying to attack me and say I know little about science? Perhaps it is you who have a narrow view.
 

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George_Washington said:
Oh, antibiotics? LOL! My own medical doctor rarely perscribes antibiotics because they don't work in all cases and they also lower your immunity over time. So why do you keep trying to attack me and say I know little about science? Perhaps it is you who have a narrow view.
Why the attack on your knowledge base? BEcause you're juxtaposing. It doesn't seem like you are arrogant so I can only conclude of ignorance.
You're very own statement :
My own medical doctor rarely perscribes antibiotics because they don't work in all cases
Do you know why antibiotics do not work all the time?
By the way, nice attempt at a dogde of the question because that's not the question that was presented.
 

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One other point about the opening post.

The fact that atheists can love pretty much derails your entire premise.
 

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George_Washington said:
Oh, antibiotics? LOL! My own medical doctor rarely perscribes antibiotics
Good. Over-prescribing of ABs leads to resistant infections - MRSA, VRSA etc. not to mention encouraging infections such as C. Dificile.

However, nothing you have posted persuades me that there may be a god.
 

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MrFungus420 said:
One other point about the opening post.

The fact that atheists can love pretty much derails your entire premise.
Did you follow the original meaning of my post or did it just go over your head? I wasn't trying to imply that atheists can't love! When the heck did I say that? I was just trying to say one of the reasons why I personally believe in God.
 

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Naughty Nurse said:
However, nothing you have posted persuades me that there may be a god.
lol I'm not trying to convert people. I just wanted to mention one of the reasons why I believed in God. I don't care really care if you or anyone else on here believes or not. I don't think I've actually ever tried to convert anyone on here. In fact, notice in the post how I said I wasn't trying to endorse any particular religion.
 

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jfuh said:
Why the attack on your knowledge base? BEcause you're juxtaposing. It doesn't seem like you are arrogant so I can only conclude of ignorance.
You're very own statement :
Do you know why antibiotics do not work all the time?
By the way, nice attempt at a dogde of the question because that's not the question that was presented.
Your original assertion seemed to be that humans are just a mass of chemicals. That assertion contains errors and is too broad and general to be accurate. Granted, there's no proof either that God exists based on love but what you said wasn't very, "exact" either.
 

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George_Washington said:
Your original assertion seemed to be that humans are just a mass of chemicals. That assertion contains errors and is too broad and general to be accurate. Granted, there's no proof either that God exists based on love but what you said wasn't very, "exact" either.
In a broad view I see humans ALMOST in the same way or something very close to it. I don't see that assertion contains essential ( at least worth of arguing errors). I just don't see how in anyway it disproves existance of God and Jesus, or how in anyway it contradict the Bible. The more the Bible said that God created us out of dirt - random chemical elements. What is arguement about?
 

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justone said:
In a broad view I see humans ALMOST in the same way or something very close to it. I don't see that assertion contains essential ( at least worth of arguing errors). I just don't see how in anyway it disproves existance of God and Jesus, or how in anyway it contradict the Bible. The more the Bible said that God created us out of dirt - random chemical elements. What is arguement about?
Well, I personally just can't fathom the fact that we are just chemicals, blood, and flesh. I just can't imagine that we could have the vast array of emotions that we do and then we just simply die and that's it. I believe there has to be more to our Universe. To me, that view seems like it would stifle someone's artistic abilities. Because if you really are just stuck on the idea that emotions are all just biology and whatnot, how could you come up with creative ways to express the human condition? I'm sure that view could lead to one becoming a good scientist but I doubt it would bring out the creative side in someone. I can't imagine sitting down to write a love story with the basic thought of biology in mind, lol. I personally thought biology was incredibily boring in high school but that's just me. :::shrugs::: lol
 

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George_Washington said:
Did you follow the original meaning of my post or did it just go over your head?
Sorry, I made the association with the common claim that love stems from believing in God.

George_Washington said:
I wasn't trying to imply that atheists can't love! When the heck did I say that?
I didn't say that you did. Like I said above, I was making the association with the claim of love requiring belief in God.

George_Washington said:
I was just trying to say one of the reasons why I personally believe in God.
Well, it sounded like you were just offering it as general proof, not personal belief.
 

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George_Washington said:
Well, I personally just can't fathom the fact that we are just chemicals, blood, and flesh. I just can't imagine that we could have the vast array of emotions that we do and then we just simply die and that's it.
1. Our emotions so far can be represented as neuro-electro-chemical processes, and I don’t see a need to argue.
2. You cannot assert that ‘’we then we just simply die and that’s it’’ is the only one conclusion of the description. There is no witnesses who can confirm that he/she died and that’s it.
3. When I die I will leave my thoughts for you to argue, so I am different from all other animals . you would be arguing my thoughts like I would be alive. I am going to finish typing and have a heart attack but you would still arguing to a living man. Does not happen with animals.
George_Washington said:
I believe there has to be more to our Universe.
4. Of course it is. We are the most important part of the Universe. Otherwise why would God created us if we did not have anything to do to the Universe. Or you think He has fan to hang around with us in our polluted downtowns and think how he would find living quarters for all dead souls?

To me, that view seems like it would stifle someone's artistic abilities. [/QUOTE]
1. Our emotions so far can be represented as neuro-electro-chemical processes.

George_Washington said:
Because if you really are just stuck on the idea that emotions are all just biology and whatnot, how could you come up with creative ways to express the human condition?
Only if you see what is the result of the emotions, and what they are for.
I hardly can be more creative than the Bible.

George_Washington said:
I'm sure that view could lead to one becoming a good scientist but I doubt it would bring out the creative side in someone.
It depends on what kind of science you are in. If you are in physics or quantum mechanic this view have nothing to do to your abilities.
George_Washington said:
I can't imagine sitting down to write a love story with the basic thought of biology in mind, lol.
Depends on your creativity.

George_Washington said:
I personally thought biology was incredibily boring in high school but that's just me. :::shrugs::: lol
I hated it. The teacher was the most boring part.
 
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