Some Questions of Those on the Left who find Property Destruction Acceptable

[Mr Person]

The only people who support destroying property are the people who destroyed property, and I haven't seen one person say they should be allowed to do this. So I don't think you'll get any serious poster arriving to present a thesis on the merits of destroying property (I say that way because I can think of a couple who would say it just to be absurd and stir the pot).

Bad framing. It's entirely possible to be for BLM and against some criminal asshole moving through the protest causing havoc. It's also entirely possible to understand why people are behaving in such a fashion without approving of it.

What would I be doing if I was always treated like a second class citizen. Like I have to wake up every single morning wondering whether I'm going to read about another white Jewish person being gunned down because a cop says he did not know what was in my pocket and got scared. A loose analogy: the Boston Tea Party. They weren't just jerks who liked to destroy property for its own sake. They'd had enough. It doesn't make destruction of the tea a noble act, and wasting that much tea is indeed bad. But at a certain point

And the majority of the right seems to think the best approach to this is to tell these people that when the police kill them its because they deserved to die - they didn't heed a command in time or whatever - and that the only real thing to do in this situation is condemn the destruction of property without doing anything about why people chose to do that.


And, as others have noted, a lot of this destruction isn't even coming from people who have simply had enough. Criminals use protests as cover. Wouldn't you, if you were a criminal? Makes perfect sense.

Bear in mind, sports fans do this **** when they lose OR win a big game. We don't hear "oh, look at all those animals". It's "yeah, so that happened again." But here, the overall move is to smear all protesters and the reason for the protests, all the while police keep beating/killing people they don't need to. If that's a "you" reading this, you really could not do a better job of encouraging this if you consciously tried.





At any rate, at least this thread avoids the usual partisan schtick of demanding that people flock to the thread to "condemn" something or else they, declares an OP, will be assumed to support the thing. But I doubt there's anyone other than Beavis or Butthead who would enter it to say "breaking stuff is cool"

 

[VanceMack]

Oh look, more hysterical screeching about “rats”. Yawn.

Conservatives piss their pants at the very thought of addressing the issue, screaming “Marxism” and “anarchism” and any damn thing they can dream up.

:lamo

You and the worthless piece of **** rats you support OWN this ****. You people in YOUR cesspool have voted for democrats since 1937. YOUR party has ****ed over the black American community in south and west Chicago and YOU and the people YOU vote both with and for that CAN affect those changes dont do **** all.

YOU are the problem.

 

[Mr Person]

The real irony isnt in the support of the destruction, the violence, in the looting, and other forms of 'peaceful protests' that the scumbags are committing. The real irony is the fact that liberals and idiot leftists are EAGER to rush to the polls to vote for the same worthless corrupt pieces of **** that RUN those cities, that COULD have made the policy changes they claim to seek, and havent in the decades the rat party that they support has been in power. Minneapolis has had a democrat mayor, city council, district attorney, and police chief since 1961. They have controlled the budgets, the housing, the economic development, and yes...the police force...and have done nothing. Oh, they **** themselves over Trump and blame HIM for not fixing the problems. They will make a ton of excuses as to why, after 59 YEARS in control of the government, the politicians they support have created these ****holes and not created the change. And then they will rush to the polls to once again vote for them. And they will do it over, and over, and over in rat controlled cities across the country.

Literally every thread, man. Every single thread you enter, you just use to rant about "leftists". Why is that all you do?

:lamo

You and the worthless piece of **** rats you support OWN this ****. You people in YOUR cesspool have voted for democrats since 1937. YOUR party has ****ed over the black American community in south and west Chicago and YOU and the people YOU vote both with and for that CAN affect those changes dont do **** all.

YOU are the problem.

Because police do not brutalize American citizens in cities run by Republicans? Do you ever think these spittle-flecked rants through?

 

[VanceMack]

I'm sorry that reading is so difficult for you.

:lamo

I'm sorry your motives and comments so readily expose your motivation. Sucks to be you. And it sucks to be the people living in the ****holes YOU created.

 

[Cardinal]

The only people who support destroying property are the people who destroyed property, and I haven't seen one person say they should be allowed to do this. So I don't think you'll get any serious poster arriving to present a thesis on the merits of destroying property (I say that way because I can think of a couple who would say it just to be absurd and stir the pot).

Bad framing. It's entirely possible to be for BLM and against some criminal asshole moving through the protest causing havoc. It's also entirely possible to understand why people are behaving in such a fashion without approving of it.

What would I be doing if I was always treated like a second class citizen. Like I have to wake up every single morning wondering whether I'm going to read about another white Jewish person being gunned down because a cop says he did not know what was in my pocket and got scared. A loose analogy: the Boston Tea Party. They weren't just jerks who liked to destroy property for its own sake. They'd had enough. It doesn't make destruction of the tea a noble act, and wasting that much tea is indeed bad. But at a certain point

And the majority of the right seems to think the best approach to this is to tell these people that when the police kill them its because they deserved to die - they didn't heed a command in time or whatever - and that the only real thing to do in this situation is condemn the destruction of property without doing anything about why people chose to do that.


And, as others have noted, a lot of this destruction isn't even coming from people who have simply had enough. Criminals use protests as cover. Wouldn't you, if you were a criminal? Makes perfect sense.

Bear in mind, sports fans do this **** when they lose OR win a big game. We don't hear "oh, look at all those animals". It's "yeah, so that happened again." But here, the overall move is to smear all protesters and the reason for the protests, all the while police keep beating/killing people they don't need to. If that's a "you" reading this, you really could not do a better job of encouraging this if you consciously tried.





At any rate, at least this thread avoids the usual partisan schtick of demanding that people flock to the thread to "condemn" something or else they, declares an OP, will be assumed to support the thing. But I doubt there's anyone other than Beavis or Butthead who would enter it to say "breaking stuff is cool"

"Throwing furniture through a store window lends my political position credibility and sympathy."

-nobody ever

 

[Tigerace117]

:lamo

You and the worthless piece of **** rats you support OWN this ****. You people in YOUR cesspool have voted for democrats since 1937. YOUR party has ****ed over the black American community in south and west Chicago and YOU and the people YOU vote both with and for that CAN affect those changes dont do **** all.

YOU are the problem.

Oh look, another hysterical, profane meltdown from a conservative who simply can’t comprehend why minorities refuse to vote in any large number for the Confederate Party and has to babble meaningless talking points like “Chicago violence” to avoid facing the real world.

Voting for the party which thinks slavery wasn’t so bad and that Confederates were heroes doesn’t help minorities one iota....and they know it. Which is why they don’t vote Republican.

But by all means, continue hysterically melting down and desperately trying to avoid the facts.

 

[Felis Leo]

Can you link to somebody on this forum calling the destruction of property acceptable or laudable?

No, Cardinal. I have only two left-leaning forum members in mind who see property destruction as "acceptable" or "okay" but I did include them for two reasons. First, I find searching through posts a tiring chore. And, second, I did not want to call people out directly when that might invite abuse and defensiveness when I genuinely want to see if they would have a discussion here. I figured my thread title alone would bring them here.

 

[Mr Person]

I'm editing my post so that it's directed toward you instead of somebody else, since that person started foaming at the mouth uncontrollably after reading it.

It's the entire power structure that has been built up around giving immunity to cops who assault and murder people. You'll notice that it wasn't just the cities but the Federal government as well that immediately provided blanket support for the police.

That's why you're seeing protests.

As for the rioters, it's difficult to know for sure how many of them are right wing provocateurs, how many are opportunists and anarchists, and how many are protesters who took it too far. Speaking exclusively to the third group since the first and second groups are easy to understand, people who riot do so because they feel the system is stacked so perfectly against them that it allows them no legitimate reprieve. We saw that during the protests: police assaulting peaceful protesters with an air of careless immunity, and the cities and the Federal government sided with them entirely. That's a system that is not on the side of the people in any way, and when they see that then riots will happen.

And let me just import another post bearing on this power structure that Cardinal referred to:

Qualified immunity in layman's terms: unless a person with an IQ of 1 would understand that a specific action was described in detail and said to be completely wrong in a controlling decision, a cop cannot be sued for what they did.

Cop Who Allegedly Kneed a Subdued Suspect in the Eye ’20 to 30 Times’ Gets Qualified Immunity – Reason.com

(Kneeing a suspect in the eye 20-30 times; but there wasn't a case in the relevant jurisdiction saying that you can't knee someone in the eye 20-30 times. Sure, there was a case saying you cannot do a "knee drop" that fractures their face. (Gill v. Maciejewski). Sure, there was a decision saying you can't "hip toss" someone, then have two other cops beat them to death as they lay on the ground. (Krout v. Goemmer).

But there wasn't saying a decision saying you can't knee someone in the eye 20-30 times. So the cop cannot be sued. Unreasonable to expect him to know his behavior was unconstitutional.

All this stuff that sounds good on paper so that people will approve without even looking into it. It's a bad guy so who cares, next.



Oh yes, and using the dogs of people the police say are criminals for target practice:

Detroit Police Department Settles Another Dog Shooting Lawsuit After Video Contradicts Cop’s Account – Reason.com

Police conduct drug raid, blow away two dogs, lie about it. Only because it happened on camera could anything happen about it. Otherwise the cops would be protected by their lies (specifically, that the dogs attacked them).

In the video linked in the article. You can see one dog standing at the end of a hallway. Another comes out, looking like it wants to say hello. The cop blows it away. The cop wrote in his report that "he 'observed a black pit bull and a tan pit bull showing his teeth, charging, and attempting to bite crew.'"

Later, he wrote "a large black pitfall came charging at me down the hallway from the northwest bedroom. I fired two shots…neutralizing the threat. While still in the hallway, a second brown pit bull came charging down the hallway towards me."


These days I don't think Americans deserve their freedoms anymore, especially not the ones they think they have. I can excuse you for maybe not knowing a lot about civil forfeiture given that you live in England. But I'm telling you: there is such a massive web of laws and judicial precedents that protects police that they can get away with almost anything.

Our rights are a joke. Our laws are a disgrace. We've got some really scummy cops, and so many more that lie to cover-up for the really scummy ones.

Gotta kill someone by kneeling on their neck for a full three minutes after they fall unconscious on camera to get charged . . .

(The first link contains links to the two cases summarized).

It's not even the effects of racism over time.

You can't even sue these people unless they did the exact thing that a controlling decision - that is, one in the jurisdiction from an appellate court - says they cannot do. The cop in question could knee someone in the eye 20-30 times because a court didn't say you couldn't knee someone in the eye 20-30 times. Sure, the 8th Circuit said things from which any moron could deduce meant you couldn't just keep kneeing a guy in the eye, but I guess it's unfair of us to expect cops to work that out on their own.

 

[Cardinal]

No, Cardinal. I have only two left-leaning forum members in mind who see property destruction as "acceptable" or "okay" but I did include them for two reasons. First, I find searching through posts a tiring chore. And, second, I did not want to call people out directly when that might invite abuse and defensiveness when I genuinely want to see if they would have a discussion here. I figured my thread title alone would bring them here.

Fair enough, but if you only have two left leaning members in mind who find property destruction "acceptable or okay," then it begs the question of why you think this needed to be directed to all left leaning members here.

 

[Cardinal]

And let me just import another post bearing on this power structure that Cardinal referred to:



(The first link contains links to the two cases summarized).

It's not even the effects of racism over time.

You can't even sue these people unless they did the exact thing that a controlling decision - that is, one in the jurisdiction from an appellate court - says they cannot do. The cop in question could knee someone in the eye 20-30 times because a court didn't say you couldn't knee someone in the eye 20-30 times. Sure, the 8th Circuit said things from which any moron could deduce meant you couldn't just keep kneeing a guy in the eye, but I guess it's unfair of us to expect cops to work that out on their own.

And just to add to that, the DOJ stopped investigating and prosecuting instances of police assault and civil rights violations.

If you're a victim of police brutality, you're totally screwed. Every single square inch of the legal system is stacked against you. Literally your only hope for justice is to make the police brutality so public and loud that a governor or mayor is shamed into actually doing something about it.

 

[Felis Leo]

Disclaimer aside; "Generally we’re opposed to it and have no trouble saying so". Obviously you're not looking for a response to your supposed question; this is just troll bait.

View attachment 67292776

I'm looking for those ideologically left-wing people who would defend chaos and destruction. The shoe does not fit you, and I am not demanding you wear it.

 

[VanceMack]

Oh look, another hysterical, profane meltdown from a conservative who simply can’t comprehend why minorities refuse to vote in any large number for the Confederate Party and has to babble meaningless talking points like “Chicago violence” to avoid facing the real world.

Voting for the party which thinks slavery wasn’t so bad and that Confederates were heroes doesn’t help minorities one iota....and they know it. Which is why they don’t vote Republican.

But by all means, continue hysterically melting down and desperately trying to avoid the facts.

:lamo

Try to do whatever pathetic dance you think you can do to avoid the facts.

YOU vote to keep those rat ****s in office. YOU keep those corrupt pieces of **** in power. And YOU make all the excuses you want...try to blame the other party all you want...but you cant...and you KNOW it.

YOU own this ****. YOU did this.

 

[Irwin Corey]

I'm looking for those ideologically left-wing people who would defend chaos and destruction. The shoe does not fit you, and I am not demanding you wear it.

You're trolling.

 

[Felis Leo]

Fair enough, but if you only have two left leaning members in mind who find property destruction "acceptable or okay," then it begs the question of why you think this needed to be directed to all left leaning members here.

Well, because I am already aware of the right-wing justifications for property destruction. Because they are either racists who feel threatened by up-and-coming members of hitherto downtrodden minorities outpacing them in terms of individual economic success (See: the Tulsa Massacre), or they are acting as agent provocateurs in an effort to give authorities a pretext to quash otherwise peaceful protests.

I want to know the thought process of someone on the political left who is not troubled by rioting, looting or destruction, whether they are represent plurality of those on the left (doubtful), or a distinct minority.

 

[Felis Leo]

You're trolling.

View attachment 67292781

If you insist.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Very likely. I do not presume that the white folks who burned down Tulsa's Black Wall Street in 1921 were avowed Marxists starting the worker's revolution against the moneyed classes. My money is on the presumption that they were white supremacists who were driven to anger over the fact that such a large number of black people who they had been inculcated to believe were their inferiors had reached a level of economic success that had so long eluded so many of them.

Likewise, many of the right wingers these days who have engaged in property destruction are doing so as agent provocateurs so that it can be blamed on AntiFa/Black Bloc/BLM protesters.

Yes, a good many thought to be Antifa/BLM etc turned out to be Boogaloo Boy types masquerading as such but sadly, not nearly as many as some would like to think. As a former South Minneapolis resident I've been following local reports up there very closely.
It's sad to realize that the majority of the looters and arsonists were NOT imposters.

Sorry, but the majority were simply Minnesota natives, many of whom weren't aligned with anything at all.
A lot of them were NOT South Minneapolis residents...big hairy deal, so they DROVE in from outlying suburbs instead.
That doesn't change the fact that they were losers and malcontents, and I read their excuses on venues like Nextdoor and on other social media outlets, where they expended a lot of time and energy just bashing the neighborhood and the city.
One in particular was the granddaughter of the owner of Mel's Cafe on East Lake Street, across from The Coliseum Ballroom.
I worked as a dishwasher for Mel. His granddaughter's excuse was "That's the past, I don't give a **** about it or my grandfather's restaurant, I am a child of today and I don't care if the whole city burns because we will just rebuild it and erase the memory of white people altogether."

Note, she's half white, so there's that.
Note, she's unemployed and the proud holder of three DUI's, so there's that.
See what I mean? Their excuses are just as pathetic as the righties who masqueraded as lefties.
And of course, the excuses made by the lefties who participated, equally pathetic.

 

[Cardinal]

Well, because I am already aware of the right-wing justifications for property destruction. Because they are either racists who feel threatened by up-and-coming members of hitherto downtrodden minorities outpacing them in terms of individual economic success (See: the Tulsa Massacre), or they are acting as agent provocateurs in an effort to give authorities a pretext to quash otherwise peaceful protests.

I want to know the thought process of someone on the political left who is not troubled by rioting, looting or destruction, whether they are represent plurality of those on the left (doubtful), or a distinct minority.

You're not going to find a significant number of people on the left who support it because they know perfectly well that rioters discredit the message of protesters. And the protesters themselves obviously grasped this too, since they would work with police (where possible) by stopping rioters and handing them over to the police.

The reason why protests so often turned chaotic is because the police assaulted the protesters regardless of whether or not they were violent, which meant protesters had no means for stopping the looters.

The right is focusing on the rioters, but it's actually the police who've consistently escalated every situation.

 

[Tigerace117]

:lamo

Try to do whatever pathetic dance you think you can do to avoid the facts.

YOU vote to keep those rat ****s in office. YOU keep those corrupt pieces of **** in power. And YOU make all the excuses you want...try to blame the other party all you want...but you cant...and you KNOW it.

YOU own this ****. YOU did this.

Keep hysterically melting down, screeching your unhinged hatred to the sky.

It just goes to show how little credibility you have.

Again, minorities are largely not going to vote for the Confederate Party. Deal with it. If you want them to vote for you, your party should stop indulging in “white power— err, I mean pride” crap.

And no, the Democratic Party does not “own” cops conducting extrajudicial killings.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

White people need to let go of the idea that property is more valuable than human lives.

Why do you phrase things this way?
You don't think people of other races protect their own property?
I have some shocking news for you.

Armed Korean-American shop owners guarding their stores from the rooftops - 1992 LA Riots

 

[VanceMack]

Keep hysterically melting down, screeching your unhinged hatred to the sky.

It just goes to show how little credibility you have.

Again, minorities are largely not going to vote for the Confederate Party. Deal with it. If you want them to vote for you, your party should stop indulging in “white power— err, I mean pride” crap.

And no, the Democratic Party does not “own” cops conducting extrajudicial killings.

Its funny that people like you see pointing out the facts as 'melting down'.

YOU own this ****. You put all those corrupt piece of **** governments in place and thats the totally laughable part of your comments. The nation is burning because of the corrupt inept pieces of **** YOU vote for, and you think you can blame the ****holes YOU created on the people that you DIDNT vote for.

:lamo

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You're not going to find a significant number of people on the left who support it because they know perfectly well that rioters discredit the message of protesters. And the protesters themselves obviously grasped this too, since they would work with police (where possible) by stopping rioters and handing them over to the police.

The reason why protests so often turned chaotic is because the police assaulted the protesters regardless of whether or not they were violent, which meant protesters had no means for stopping the looters.

The right is focusing on the rioters, but it's actually the police who've consistently escalated every situation.

The politics of civil unrest have not changed in centuries.
There's always the same groups of people, and they always work along a very familiar dynamic.
These groups are not defined with razor sharpness but generally speaking most people who want to peacefully protest don't pivot because, as has been said, they're aware that anything other than peaceful protest hurts their cause.

A. The protesters.
They gather in a space, protest, march, scream and shout, read speeches and manifestos, make demands, carry signs, reproach public officials, block areas of transport and commerce, and otherwise generally disrupt the normal course of human activities.

B. The rioters.
This group comes for the thrill of the fight, or they come because they sense opportunities to loot and vandalize. Other rioters may hold much more extreme views than the peaceful protesters, which means that many of the rioters are anarchist or they harbor somewhat anarchistic ideals even without knowing they are anarchist. They are passively anarchistic because they do not resist those impulses.
They are malcontents and they want to express their anger and express violence. For them it is a game.
Others are career criminals who use the unrest as cover for their activities.

C. The imposters.
This group masquerades as members of the other side. They come for one reason only... political.
Their goal is to discredit the first group and encourage violent repercussions on them.
Some are paid professional provocateurs, others are simply mentally imbalanced, and still others are planted by law enforcement as agitators.

And as always, it is groups B and C that get most of the attention, from the public, from the media and from elected officials.
The only time Group A gets attention is when they get lumped in with the other two groups, as happens on a daily basis right here.

 

[Tigerace117]

Its funny that people like you see pointing out the facts as 'melting down'.

YOU own this ****. You put all those corrupt piece of **** governments in place and thats the totally laughable part of your comments. The nation is burning because of the corrupt inept pieces of **** YOU vote for, and you think you can blame the ****holes YOU created on the people that you DIDNT vote for.

:lamo

Your profane, hysterical rants are the very definition of “melting down”....and you have yet to point out a fact at all. All you’ve done is incoherently screech “rats” over and over and over again, apparently under the delusion that that makes an argument.

Again, hysterical screeching about “corrupt pieces of ****” doesn’t change the fact that it is conservatives defending the extrajudicial murders being carried out, and voting for the Confederate Party wouldn’t have stopped any of the killings from occurring.

The nation is burning because conservatives consider minorities to be subhuman and are far more worried about property damage than them literally being murdered by cops.

And yet, the “****holes” are still far better off than the dark red, inbred hellholes Trump cultists crawl out of :lol:

 

[TheParser]

Those "tolerant" folks will quickly change their mind on this issue if their property is ever destroyed.

Some folks learn the hard way.

Sad!

 

[VanceMack]

Your profane, hysterical rants are the very definition of “melting down”....and you have yet to point out a fact at all. All you’ve done is incoherently screech “rats” over and over and over again, apparently under the delusion that that makes an argument.

Again, hysterical screeching about “corrupt pieces of ****” doesn’t change the fact that it is conservatives defending the extrajudicial murders being carried out, and voting for the Confederate Party wouldn’t have stopped any of the killings from occurring.

The nation is burning because conservatives consider minorities to be subhuman and are far more worried about property damage than them literally being murdered by cops.

And yet, the “****holes” are still far better off than the dark red, inbred hellholes Trump cultists crawl out of :lol:

:lamo

And again you attempt to do this ridiculous pathetic dodge to avoid the FACT that the same piece of **** rat politicians YOU vote for have been in power since 1937, and have created the ****holes YOU are responsible for. Trump doesnt have a ****ing thing to do with the cesspool YOU created in Chicago. Not a thing. Trump doesnt have a thing to do with the ****hole people like you created in Minneapolis. Thats ALL...100% YOU.

You did that. You can squirm and dance all you like...you just cant avoid the FACTS.

YOU did that.YOU created those ****holes.

 

[Tigerace117]

:lamo

And again you attempt to do this ridiculous pathetic dodge to avoid the FACT that the same piece of **** rat politicians YOU vote for have been in power since 1937, and have created the ****holes YOU are responsible for. Trump doesnt have a ****ing thing to do with the cesspool YOU created in Chicago. Not a thing. Trump doesnt have a thing to do with the ****hole people like you created in Minneapolis. Thats ALL...100% YOU.

You did that. You can squirm and dance all you like...you just cant avoid the FACTS.

YOU did that.YOU created those ****holes.

Oh look, even more hysterical babbling from you. I’ll wait for you to provide the name of any current politician who was “in power in 1937” like you stated :lol:

Trump is a blowhard moron whose run the country into the ground. And even after all the screaming about “****holes”, again, Chicago is still far better off than deep red hellholes.....like Bum**** Nowhere, Louisiana, where the locals switch off between their sisters and the farm animals.

No amount of unhinged wailing about how much you hate Democrats changes the facts. Deal with it.