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Some Questions of Those on the Left who find Property Destruction Acceptable

Felis Leo

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I have a question for those here on this forum who self-identify as political left-wing or left-leaning and who either find nothing to condemn about property destruction, vandalism, and/or looting, or find it even acceptable or laudable:

Why are you okay or even happy with it?

Is it because property destruction, looting and vandalism are crimes that you cannot summon moral outrage for because it is far less terrible when compared to unjustified police killings and abuse?

Is it because you cannot see the havoc it wreaks on the lives of those whose property is ruined (presuming it is private property) versus those of people who have been killed on video? Perhaps you presume that the property owners have adequate insurance coverage which will pay cover and make good their losses?

Or is it for less emotive and more ideological reasons? Is it because the property owners, whatever their ancestry or the means of their attainment of property, are the conscious or unconscious beneficiaries of a system that has oppressed black Americans and/or exploits workers and the landless, and thus they deserve the destruction visited upon their property? Perhaps you would hope that this destruction spurs systemic change as those with economic power plead with those in political power to better the situation of the permanent underclass in order to avoid further unrest which threatens their property?

All of the above? None of the above? Are there other reasons?

Keep in mind, this is not a "gotcha" or my opportunity to heap abuse on top of you. I genuinely want to know your reasoning and hopefully I or other members on this forum, left, right, center or non-aligned can have a civil discussion with you.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone rushes to answer, please keep in mind that this question is NOT aimed at self-identified left-wing or left-leaning members of this forum who are against property destruction, looting and vandalism. Only for those who are not.
 

ecofarm

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Would answers from those so inclined on the right be any different?
 

X Factor

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Would answers from those so inclined on the right be any different?

Generally we’re opposed to it and have no trouble saying so.
 

ecofarm

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btthegreat

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You aren't going to find many of any stripe in favor of looting , vandalism or the destruction of property.
 

X Factor

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You aren't going to find many of any stripe in favor of looting or the destruction of property.

Maybe not in favor, exactly, but when the rioting and looting first started, I did see it described as not a big deal or as even necessary or, at the very least, as being understandable.
 

ecofarm

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Maybe not in favor, exactly, but when the rioting and looting first started, I did see it described as not a big deal or as even necessary or, at the very least, as being understandable.

When a minority power is subject to instances of perceived injustice, those instances are taken as a threat to the whole in the perpetuation of an unjust system. Criminal elements within a population employ this social dynamic as an excuse for criminal activity through rationalizing their criminal actions as acts of protecting the group.

The majority power has no such threat to the whole from instances of perceived injustice because they have the power. Criminal elements of the majority power are unable to rationalize threats to the whole as excuses for their criminal acts.

What's not to understand?
 

X Factor

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When a minority power is subject to instances of perceived injustice, those instances are taken as a threat to the whole in the perpetuation of an unjust system. Criminal elements within a population employ this social dynamic as an excuse for criminal activity through rationalizing their criminal actions as acts of protecting the group.

The majority power has no such threat to the whole from instances of perceived injustice because they have the power. Criminal elements of the majority power are unable to rationalize threats to the whole as excuses for their criminal acts.

What's not to understand?

Of course the “criminal element” will justify their own actions but many (not all by any means) on the left seemed to justify those criminal actions as well, or, at the very least, seemed hesitant to condemn it.
 

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it's just a damn shame that it has to come to this all because people aren't treated equal under similar circumstances.

i'm against all the violence. period.





maybe we can go back in time and never have the first black slave brought to the USofA. then we don't have all the racist crap we still have.
 

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I have a question for those here on this forum who self-identify as political left-wing or left-leaning and who either find nothing to condemn about property destruction, vandalism, and/or looting, or find it even acceptable or laudable:

Why are you okay or even happy with it?

Is it because property destruction, looting and vandalism are crimes that you cannot summon moral outrage for because it is far less terrible when compared to unjustified police killings and abuse?

Is it because you cannot see the havoc it wreaks on the lives of those whose property is ruined (presuming it is private property) versus those of people who have been killed on video? Perhaps you presume that the property owners have adequate insurance coverage which will pay cover and make good their losses?

Or is it for less emotive and more ideological reasons? Is it because the property owners, whatever their ancestry or the means of their attainment of property, are the conscious or unconscious beneficiaries of a system that has oppressed black Americans and/or exploits workers and the landless, and thus they deserve the destruction visited upon their property? Perhaps you would hope that this destruction spurs systemic change as those with economic power plead with those in political power to better the situation of the permanent underclass in order to avoid further unrest which threatens their property?

All of the above? None of the above? Are there other reasons?

Keep in mind, this is not a "gotcha" or my opportunity to heap abuse on top of you. I genuinely want to know your reasoning and hopefully I or other members on this forum, left, right, center or non-aligned can have a civil discussion with you.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone rushes to answer, please keep in mind that this question is NOT aimed at self-identified left-wing or left-leaning members of this forum who are against property destruction, looting and vandalism. Only for those who are not.

I am just going to go on record as saying that I am not in favor of property destruction.
I get the reasons WHY people burned down the Third Precinct police station in Minneapolis, but it did nothing, it accomplished nothing, it yielded nothing. The cop shop will be rebuilt, and the tab will come out of taxes, so there's that, too. Burning down the Third Precinct was emotive.

I have also come to the conclusion that the people who committed the majority of acts of arson and wanton destruction fall into two main categories, locals from in and around Minnesota who are just malcontent losers and imported actors who were committed to far right causes masquerading as lefties.
Unfortunately, that latter category is dwarfed by the former.
The handful of imported outside people who were caught and charged pales next to the vast number of neighborhood participants who just decided this was their opportunity to rain havoc. And many of them weren't even aligned with any cause at all, they just seem to have thought it would be cool to be destructive. What remains after that are indeed those who ID as lefty who joined in.

I do not have an answer as to why anyone on the left justifies destruction.
I've heard numerous excuses but they're pathetic.
"No justice, no peace" does not mean it's okay to burn and destroy, it just means peace and tranquility will be replaced by protest and anger.
That anger should not be channeled into destruction because it only hurts the cause.
 

Aunt Antifa

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I have a question for those here on this forum who self-identify as political left-wing or left-leaning and who either find nothing to condemn about property destruction, vandalism, and/or looting, or find it even acceptable or laudable:

Why are you okay or even happy with it?

Is it because property destruction, looting and vandalism are crimes that you cannot summon moral outrage for because it is far less terrible when compared to unjustified police killings and abuse?

Is it because you cannot see the havoc it wreaks on the lives of those whose property is ruined (presuming it is private property) versus those of people who have been killed on video? Perhaps you presume that the property owners have adequate insurance coverage which will pay cover and make good their losses?

Or is it for less emotive and more ideological reasons? Is it because the property owners, whatever their ancestry or the means of their attainment of property, are the conscious or unconscious beneficiaries of a system that has oppressed black Americans and/or exploits workers and the landless, and thus they deserve the destruction visited upon their property? Perhaps you would hope that this destruction spurs systemic change as those with economic power plead with those in political power to better the situation of the permanent underclass in order to avoid further unrest which threatens their property?

All of the above? None of the above? Are there other reasons?

Keep in mind, this is not a "gotcha" or my opportunity to heap abuse on top of you. I genuinely want to know your reasoning and hopefully I or other members on this forum, left, right, center or non-aligned can have a civil discussion with you.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone rushes to answer, please keep in mind that this question is NOT aimed at self-identified left-wing or left-leaning members of this forum who are against property destruction, looting and vandalism. Only for those who are not.

My answer is pretty easy: simply don’t give a ****. People committing any crimes should be arrested, tried, yada yada. But this just isn’t a widespread issue, and it’s certainly not the point of what’s happening.

Black people’s lives aren’t worth what white people’s lives are in this country, and it needs to stop. It’s entirely possible to be opposed to someone throwing a brick at a window AND want police violence against POC to end. The cynical ploy of mixing and matching both issues so that all protestors can be condemned along with BLM is transparent af.

White people need to let go of the idea that property is more valuable than human lives. Just the idea a few weeks ago that police were “guarding” statues should send everyone screaming from the room.
 

Aunt Antifa

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it's just a damn shame that it has to come to this all because people aren't treated equal under similar circumstances.

i'm against all the violence. period.





maybe we can go back in time and never have the first black slave brought to the USofA. then we don't have all the racist crap we still have.


The issue isn’t that Black people were used as slaves hundreds of years ago, it’s that white people wished it hadn’t ever stopped.
 

ecofarm

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maybe we can go back in time and never have the first black slave brought to the USofA. then we don't have all the racist crap we still have.

People were racists long before that.
 

sangha

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Looting generally refers to people breaking into a privately owned store and making off with the merchandise. I can't support that. Protest is not supposed to be a for profit activity

But when it comes to vandalism and destruction of public property, it's perfectly justified if the public institution is socially destructive.

If an agency of the government is racist, then it should be reformed. Absent that, it should be destroyed. All good people should support the destruction of racist institutions.

Sent from my U683CL using Tapatalk
 

Felis Leo

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Would answers from those so inclined on the right be any different?

Very likely. I do not presume that the white folks who burned down Tulsa's Black Wall Street in 1921 were avowed Marxists starting the worker's revolution against the moneyed classes. My money is on the presumption that they were white supremacists who were driven to anger over the fact that such a large number of black people who they had been inculcated to believe were their inferiors had reached a level of economic success that had so long eluded so many of them.

Likewise, many of the right wingers these days who have engaged in property destruction are doing so as agent provocateurs so that it can be blamed on AntiFa/Black Bloc/BLM protesters.
 
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tacomancer

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I have a question for those here on this forum who self-identify as political left-wing or left-leaning and who either find nothing to condemn about property destruction, vandalism, and/or looting, or find it even acceptable or laudable:

Why are you okay or even happy with it?

Neither, but I am at a loss of knowing of a way to solve it that does not involve indulging in the problem that got us here in the first place, police going overboard. So I am in the stage of trying to find workable solutions.

Is it because property destruction, looting and vandalism are crimes that you cannot summon moral outrage for because it is far less terrible when compared to unjustified police killings and abuse?

I find the riots utterly unacceptable and frankly it pisses me off. It is bad for the country for people to act like this, but the issue of the police going overboard equally pisses me off.

Is it because you cannot see the havoc it wreaks on the lives of those whose property is ruined (presuming it is private property) versus those of people who have been killed on video? Perhaps you presume that the property owners have adequate insurance coverage which will pay cover and make good their losses?

Neither, I hate that it is happening, tbh.

Or is it for less emotive and more ideological reasons? Is it because the property owners, whatever their ancestry or the means of their attainment of property, are the conscious or unconscious beneficiaries of a system that has oppressed black Americans and/or exploits workers and the landless, and thus they deserve the destruction visited upon their property? Perhaps you would hope that this destruction spurs systemic change as those with economic power plead with those in political power to better the situation of the permanent underclass in order to avoid further unrest which threatens their property?

While privilege exists and is a problem, the solution is to lift people up and not push people down. The promise of progressivism (at least for me) is that everyone has a fair shot at success given that our world has various frictions and problems in economic and social systems that may be described as working well in a textbook somewhere. It is the fact of those little wrenches in the gears that government intervention is needed for the sake of all.

However, I will also admit the entire reason to even have a society (in my opinion at least) is shared prosperity. Otherwise we are no better than the tribal barbarians in other parts of the world.

I do not support social change in way of rioting unless it is purely an act of imminent self defense. I do not see the situation in Portland as fitting that.

All of the above? None of the above? Are there other reasons?

It is due to a lack of what I see as workable solutions to the problem and an unwillingness of people to be creative, more tear gas is not going to work this time, I think.

Keep in mind, this is not a "gotcha" or my opportunity to heap abuse on top of you. I genuinely want to know your reasoning and hopefully I or other members on this forum, left, right, center or non-aligned can have a civil discussion with you.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone rushes to answer, please keep in mind that this question is NOT aimed at self-identified left-wing or left-leaning members of this forum who are against property destruction, looting and vandalism. Only for those who are not.

This sort of attitude is one of the reasons I respect you as a poster on this site.
 

Tigerace117

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I have a question for those here on this forum who self-identify as political left-wing or left-leaning and who either find nothing to condemn about property destruction, vandalism, and/or looting, or find it even acceptable or laudable:

Why are you okay or even happy with it?

Is it because property destruction, looting and vandalism are crimes that you cannot summon moral outrage for because it is far less terrible when compared to unjustified police killings and abuse?

Is it because you cannot see the havoc it wreaks on the lives of those whose property is ruined (presuming it is private property) versus those of people who have been killed on video? Perhaps you presume that the property owners have adequate insurance coverage which will pay cover and make good their losses?

Or is it for less emotive and more ideological reasons? Is it because the property owners, whatever their ancestry or the means of their attainment of property, are the conscious or unconscious beneficiaries of a system that has oppressed black Americans and/or exploits workers and the landless, and thus they deserve the destruction visited upon their property? Perhaps you would hope that this destruction spurs systemic change as those with economic power plead with those in political power to better the situation of the permanent underclass in order to avoid further unrest which threatens their property?

All of the above? None of the above? Are there other reasons?

Keep in mind, this is not a "gotcha" or my opportunity to heap abuse on top of you. I genuinely want to know your reasoning and hopefully I or other members on this forum, left, right, center or non-aligned can have a civil discussion with you.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone rushes to answer, please keep in mind that this question is NOT aimed at self-identified left-wing or left-leaning members of this forum who are against property destruction, looting and vandalism. Only for those who are not.

I find the concerns about property damage to be a case of misplaced priorities at best, outright bigotry at worst.

The only reason property is being damaged is because the issue has been systematically ignored for too long, and people are fed up. If it had been addressed at any point, there wouldn’t be riots. But doing nothing only creates more anger....and that is justified.

Human life matters more than property damage. Period.
 

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The real irony isnt in the support of the destruction, the violence, in the looting, and other forms of 'peaceful protests' that the scumbags are committing. The real irony is the fact that liberals and idiot leftists are EAGER to rush to the polls to vote for the same worthless corrupt pieces of **** that RUN those cities, that COULD have made the policy changes they claim to seek, and havent in the decades the rat party that they support has been in power. Minneapolis has had a democrat mayor, city council, district attorney, and police chief since 1961. They have controlled the budgets, the housing, the economic development, and yes...the police force...and have done nothing. Oh, they **** themselves over Trump and blame HIM for not fixing the problems. They will make a ton of excuses as to why, after 59 YEARS in control of the government, the politicians they support have created these ****holes and not created the change. And then they will rush to the polls to once again vote for them. And they will do it over, and over, and over in rat controlled cities across the country.
 

Cardinal

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I have a question for those here on this forum who self-identify as political left-wing or left-leaning and who either find nothing to condemn about property destruction, vandalism, and/or looting, or find it even acceptable or laudable:

Why are you okay or even happy with it?

Is it because property destruction, looting and vandalism are crimes that you cannot summon moral outrage for because it is far less terrible when compared to unjustified police killings and abuse?

Is it because you cannot see the havoc it wreaks on the lives of those whose property is ruined (presuming it is private property) versus those of people who have been killed on video? Perhaps you presume that the property owners have adequate insurance coverage which will pay cover and make good their losses?

Or is it for less emotive and more ideological reasons? Is it because the property owners, whatever their ancestry or the means of their attainment of property, are the conscious or unconscious beneficiaries of a system that has oppressed black Americans and/or exploits workers and the landless, and thus they deserve the destruction visited upon their property? Perhaps you would hope that this destruction spurs systemic change as those with economic power plead with those in political power to better the situation of the permanent underclass in order to avoid further unrest which threatens their property?

All of the above? None of the above? Are there other reasons?

Keep in mind, this is not a "gotcha" or my opportunity to heap abuse on top of you. I genuinely want to know your reasoning and hopefully I or other members on this forum, left, right, center or non-aligned can have a civil discussion with you.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone rushes to answer, please keep in mind that this question is NOT aimed at self-identified left-wing or left-leaning members of this forum who are against property destruction, looting and vandalism. Only for those who are not.

Can you link to somebody on this forum calling the destruction of property acceptable or laudable?
 

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I find the concerns about property damage to be a case of misplaced priorities at best, outright bigotry at worst.

The only reason property is being damaged is because the issue has been systematically ignored for too long, and people are fed up. If it had been addressed at any point, there wouldn’t be riots. But doing nothing only creates more anger....and that is justified.

Human life matters more than property damage. Period.
Ignored by the rat politicians you people keep voting into office. Ignored by the people with all the power and authority to address change who havent done so in 59 years.

Your comments epitomize why the chant of "black lives matter" is such a farce.
 

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I have a question for those here on this forum who self-identify as political left-wing or left-leaning and who either find nothing to condemn about property destruction, vandalism, and/or looting, or find it even acceptable or laudable:

Why are you okay or even happy with it?

Is it because property destruction, looting and vandalism are crimes that you cannot summon moral outrage for because it is far less terrible when compared to unjustified police killings and abuse?

Is it because you cannot see the havoc it wreaks on the lives of those whose property is ruined (presuming it is private property) versus those of people who have been killed on video? Perhaps you presume that the property owners have adequate insurance coverage which will pay cover and make good their losses?

Or is it for less emotive and more ideological reasons? Is it because the property owners, whatever their ancestry or the means of their attainment of property, are the conscious or unconscious beneficiaries of a system that has oppressed black Americans and/or exploits workers and the landless, and thus they deserve the destruction visited upon their property? Perhaps you would hope that this destruction spurs systemic change as those with economic power plead with those in political power to better the situation of the permanent underclass in order to avoid further unrest which threatens their property?

All of the above? None of the above? Are there other reasons?

Keep in mind, this is not a "gotcha" or my opportunity to heap abuse on top of you. I genuinely want to know your reasoning and hopefully I or other members on this forum, left, right, center or non-aligned can have a civil discussion with you.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone rushes to answer, please keep in mind that this question is NOT aimed at self-identified left-wing or left-leaning members of this forum who are against property destruction, looting and vandalism. Only for those who are not.

I'm editing my post so that it's directed toward you instead of somebody else, since that person started foaming at the mouth uncontrollably after reading it.

It's the entire power structure that has been built up around giving immunity to cops who assault and murder people. You'll notice that it wasn't just the cities but the Federal government as well that immediately provided blanket support for the police.

That's why you're seeing protests.

As for the rioters, it's difficult to know for sure how many of them are right wing provocateurs, how many are opportunists and anarchists, and how many are protesters who took it too far. Speaking exclusively to the third group since the first and second groups are easy to understand, people who riot do so because they feel the system is stacked so perfectly against them that it allows them no legitimate reprieve or legal recourse. We saw that during the protests: police assaulting peaceful protesters with an air of careless immunity, and the cities and the Federal government sided with them entirely. That's a system that is not on the side of the people in any way, and when they see that then riots will happen.
 
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Irwin Corey

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I have a question for those here on this forum who self-identify as political left-wing or left-leaning and who either find nothing to condemn about property destruction, vandalism, and/or looting, or find it even acceptable or laudable:

Why are you okay or even happy with it?

Is it because property destruction, looting and vandalism are crimes that you cannot summon moral outrage for because it is far less terrible when compared to unjustified police killings and abuse?

Is it because you cannot see the havoc it wreaks on the lives of those whose property is ruined (presuming it is private property) versus those of people who have been killed on video? Perhaps you presume that the property owners have adequate insurance coverage which will pay cover and make good their losses?

Or is it for less emotive and more ideological reasons? Is it because the property owners, whatever their ancestry or the means of their attainment of property, are the conscious or unconscious beneficiaries of a system that has oppressed black Americans and/or exploits workers and the landless, and thus they deserve the destruction visited upon their property? Perhaps you would hope that this destruction spurs systemic change as those with economic power plead with those in political power to better the situation of the permanent underclass in order to avoid further unrest which threatens their property?

All of the above? None of the above? Are there other reasons?

Keep in mind, this is not a "gotcha" or my opportunity to heap abuse on top of you. I genuinely want to know your reasoning and hopefully I or other members on this forum, left, right, center or non-aligned can have a civil discussion with you.

DISCLAIMER: Before anyone rushes to answer, please keep in mind that this question is NOT aimed at self-identified left-wing or left-leaning members of this forum who are against property destruction, looting and vandalism. Only for those who are not.

Disclaimer aside; "Generally we’re opposed to it and have no trouble saying so". Obviously you're not looking for a response to your supposed question; this is just troll bait.

stop trolling.jpg
 
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Ignored by the rat politicians you people keep voting into office. Ignored by the people with all the power and authority to address change who havent done so in 59 years.

Your comments epitomize why the chant of "black lives matter" is such a farce.

Oh look, more hysterical screeching about “rats”. Yawn.

Conservatives piss their pants at the very thought of addressing the issue, screaming “Marxism” and “anarchism” and any damn thing they can dream up.
 

VanceMack

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It's the entire power structure that has been built up around giving immunity to cops who assault and murder people. You'll notice that it wasn't just the cities but the Federal government as well that immediately provided blanket support for the police.

That's why you're seeing protests.

As for the rioters, it's difficult to know for sure how many of them are right wing provocateurs, how many are opportunists and anarchists, and how many are protesters who took it too far. Speaking exclusively to the third group since the first and second groups are easy to understand, people who riot do so because they feel the system is stacked so perfectly against them that it allows them no legitimate reprieve. We saw that during the protests: police assaulting peaceful protesters with an air of careless immunity, and the cities and the Federal government sided with them entirely. That's a system that is not on the side of the people in any way, and when they see that then riots will happen.
Your pathetic attempt to call the black people rioting and looting nothing more than a bunch of simple minded ****s easily manipulated by 'right wing provocateurs' is ****ing reprehensible. So are your excuses for the failure of the people YOU keep voting for year after year after year after year.

YOU caused this ****.
 

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Your pathetic attempt to call the black people rioting and looting nothing more than a bunch of simple minded ****s easily manipulated by 'right wing provocateurs' is ****ing reprehensible. So are your excuses for the failure of the people YOU keep voting for year after year after year after year.

YOU caused this ****.

I'm sorry that reading is so difficult for you.
 
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