Solutions then

[MaggieD]

So that's my point. How many babies "killed"? Okay. So what is going to happen to All Those Babies? You are going to force the women to stay pregnant, and then what?

In my Utopian Vision lots of those pregnancies aren't going to happen in the first place. For those that do and could not be legally aborted, I think we'd stand a great chance that women would have these babies....especially with the way the courts are enforcing child support. We have social nets in place to help them. And we have tens of thousands of people standing in line to adopt. So much so that they are going to foreign countries to do so. And we have tens of thousands of others who want to have children and can't afford in vitro.

PS -- You are never going to change the minds of most people who think that abortion is wrong. I wouldn't be able to abort a litter of puppies without crying. So you can jump and down all you want. Attack their logic. Call their solutions meaningless. Try to pin them down. Whatever. You think your way and our laws support you. Why do you worry so much about it?

 

[BDBoop]

I thought this thread would actually contain solutions. I'm already bored, and yeah actually - a bit saddened.

 

[NolaMan]

the pill, and yes, i did. my kids are 19 months aparts. i think sometimes the pill can be iffy for awhile after you you birth. after i had my son, at 25, i has my tubes fried. wasn't taking any chances. my ob-gyn wouldn't do it, said i was too young, so his partner did.

I don't want to really get into your personal business here, so I will be generic in my response.

In terms of the pill, there are a lot of things that can make it less effective, be it taking it at different times, other medications you are on, throwing up etc...There are a lot of ways in which many people might perceive they are doing things correctly, but are in fact basically using it improperly.

Now, don't take that the wrong way, I am saying this in a generic sense, and not about you personally.

 

[NolaMan]

You don't get that point. Sorry. That's not what we're discussing here. If they aren't using it now, they won't be using it then.

So Then What.

I would push to get off the abstence only education that many want to push in schools, and educate people about birth control. They don't have to be having sex-ed in kindergarten, or whatever the big controversy is now, but we need to be realistic. Many kids in high school/college are going to have sex and they need to be educated on proper birth control methods.

 

[BDBoop]

They have been. And this entire thread seems to become about the fetus, and birth control, as opposed to what happens if Roe vs Wade is repealed. Nobody wants to talk about the babies.

 

[liblady]

I don't want to really get into your personal business here, so I will be generic in my response.

In terms of the pill, there are a lot of things that can make it less effective, be it taking it at different times, other medications you are on, throwing up etc...There are a lot of ways in which many people might perceive they are doing things correctly, but are in fact basically using it improperly.

Now, don't take that the wrong way, I am saying this in a generic sense, and not about you personally.

i'm not offended.....but i was taking it properly, took it for years with no pregnancies. again, probably fluctuating hormones was the culprit.

it seems that in 2002, about 5% of unintended pregancies were due to contraceptive failure. a large percentage of women used contraception, just not properly. i don't know what the definition of "properly" was for that study, though, but maggie's link was pretty good.

 

[MaggieD]

@ NolaMan -- Yes, I'm sure that's true. One can't hide from the statistic that 99% of the time the pill is effective. And since one in five pregnancies are aborted, it's hard to imagine birth control failure being meaningful statistic.

There are two ladies here with subjective experience. One, the OP, whose daughter got pregnant on the pill while married. And LibLady who I believe said (?) she was married as well. I would be interested to know if either effected party chose to have an abortion. I don't expect them to answer this, for even though this is anonymous, well....we'd then always know that about LibLady, as an example. But I'd ask both of you think about it in light of your private answers and ask yourselves, am I part of the problem? Or an illustration that even unwanted pregnancies don't have to be aborted.

No offense to either lady, please.

 

[BDBoop]

My grandchildren will be four in November and three in December.

 

[MaggieD]

It seems that in 2002, about 5% of unintended pregancies were due to contraceptive failure. a large percentage of women used contraception, just not properly. i don't know what the definition of "properly" was for that study, though, but maggie's link was pretty good.

LibLady? How are either you or I reading that quote incorrectly? Not 5%. Where is that coming from?

 

[MaggieD]

They have been. And this entire thread seems to become about the fetus, and birth control, as opposed to what happens if Roe vs Wade is repealed. Nobody wants to talk about the babies.

What's this, then?

In my Utopian Vision lots of those pregnancies aren't going to happen in the first place. For those that do and could not be legally aborted, I think we'd stand a great chance that women would have these babies....especially with the way the courts are enforcing child support. We have social nets in place to help them. And we have tens of thousands of people standing in line to adopt. So much so that they are going to foreign countries to do so. And we have tens of thousands of others who want to have children and can't afford in vitro.

 

[NolaMan]

They have been. And this entire thread seems to become about the fetus, and birth control, as opposed to what happens if Roe vs Wade is repealed. Nobody wants to talk about the babies.

Well in theory, with proper birth control methods the overall number of these babies would decrease right? But that aside, adoption is always a good option it seems like. We ought to ease restrictions on adoption in this country. Not to the point where anyone can just walk in and take a child of course, but don't make well qualified couples wait for years to adopt a child.

 

[iangb]

Contraceptive failure rates.

As for adoption - from what figures I can remember, there are about 50 times more abortions per year than there are adoptions. Adoption is not a viable solution.

 

[Winston Smith]

Either the parent(s) could keep them, or they could be adopted. There's a huge demand for babies.

 

[lizzie]

In my private Utopia, women are smart enough to either prevent pregnancy, or stop doing what it takes to get pregnant.

 

[BDBoop]

Lots of those pregnancies aren't going to happen in the first place - wrong. Pregnancy will continue to happen just as it always has, at the same rate. Women will continue to have abortions, only it will be illegal.

What will the sentence be, by the way?

We have social nets? Really?? Do you know how badly those (current joke of a) nets will be strained with all the new populace? What about the marriages that go by the wayside because she's just a freakin fertile Myrtle, so she gets pregnant regardless. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, everybody knows it does.

Now, you've already stated that you're in favor of abortion in cases of rape or incest. I wonder how many here agree with you. And I wonder how many men or boys will be falsely accused so the woman can get an abortion.

What's this, then?

 

[BDBoop]

Really. And since it's generally not an immaculate conception, what about all those men who will now be on the hook for child support of a baby they never wanted (and in this case, that makes two of them).

In my private Utopia, women are smart enough to either prevent pregnancy, or stop doing what it takes to get pregnant.

 

[ashley.hunt60]

If abortion became illegal, we would have to build a lot more orphanages. Taxes would probably have to be raised to pay for all the unwanted children, or some other revenue source. I'd hope that we would work harder to prevent back-alley abortions, and that would require extra money to the police force.

I would like some medical plan in place for poor pregnant women to get what she needs if she would be forced to carry a child, such as check-ups, vitamins, going on maturity leave, and delivering the baby without getting into too much debt. And, if we are to have a sharp rise in unwanted children, for god's sake, let single parents and gays adopt them.

I'd rather just keep abortion legal.

 

[BDBoop]

Right. That was my guess, thanks for the proof.

So then we're back to State-run orphanages, etc.

And of course babies are only cute babies for a time, and as the children grow, less are willing to adopt.

Contraceptive failure rates.

As for adoption - from what figures I can remember, there are about 50 times more abortions per year than there are adoptions. Adoption is not a viable solution.

 

[MaggieD]

BDBoop, you are a very angry person. Some would call you a troll. I don't. I just think you're a zealot. What's your problem? You can have all the abortions you want.

Paraphrased....

That won't work. You're stupid.
That won't work either. You're wrong.
That won't work EITHER. You're being stupid again.

Not much fun.

 

[BDBoop]

YES! Thank you. A well thought-out and concise answer.

for god's sake, let single parents and gays adopt them.

 

[prometeus]

The "my daughter" subjective story fails, in my opinion. By and large, the women getting abortions are not getting them because birth control failed. That's a common story line. Who really knows? In your case, no one but your daughter.

Perhaps instead of spouting ill informed drivel you should educate yourself on the topic. That way you would not have to ask "Who really knows?" and could actually make meaningful posts. Who knows, you may even develop an informed opinion.

 

[BDBoop]

Some would call me a troll, but you don't? I'm honored, I think.

My problem is people who operate in a vacuum are my pet peeve. Willful ignorance irks my tater. You fight for the unborn, I fight for a woman's right to police her own body.

And sure I could have all the abortions I want, but I'm 52 and had a hysterectomy at 37.

BDBoop, you are a very angry person. Some would call you a troll. I don't. I just think you're a zealot. What's your problem? You can have all the abortions you want.

Paraphrased....

That won't work. You're stupid.
That won't work either. You're wrong.
That won't work EITHER. You're being stupid again.

Not much fun.

 

[prometeus]

Going based on this I have to assume that either:

A) Your daughter was not really on birth control and just lied to you
B) She did not use it properly

How about instead of assuming you learn the facts?

 

[MaggieD]

Perhaps instead of spouting ill informed drivel you should educate yourself on the topic. That way you would not have to ask "Who really knows?" and could actually make meaningful posts. Who knows, you may even develop an informed opinion.

Oh here we go. Is that you're contribution to this thread? Really? The only person who really knows if their birth control failed or not is the person who says it. Now why don't you post an informed opinion instead of attacking a poster?

 

[lizzie]

Really.

Yes really. You asked us about our private Utopia. I'm not anti-choice, but I do believe abortion is killing an innocent human life. In my own Utopia, it wouldn't be necessary to do so because women would have the sense to prevent having to make that choice. Am I expecting too much from women? Yes.