Solutions then

[mac]

Soup to nuts. All you pro-lifers, I want to hear Solutions. Roe v Wade is repealed. Every pregnant woman must remain so or face prosecution. How do things work from that point forward in your own privately-held version of Utopia?

First, I don't think getting an abortion should be criminalized. Performing one should be. Second, if you're actually looking for ideas, you might start of with a less condescending approach.

 

[mac]

the pill, and yes, i did. my kids are 19 months aparts. i think sometimes the pill can be iffy for awhile after you you birth. after i had my son, at 25, i has my tubes fried. wasn't taking any chances. my ob-gyn wouldn't do it, said i was too young, so his partner did.

Was your husband also using birth control? Considering that "the pill" is a bit "iffy" following birth, why not take an extra precaution if a second pregnancy wasn't desired?

 

[prometeus]

First, I don't think getting an abortion should be criminalized. Performing one should be.

Been there done that and it did not work. That is if you are concerned about life. It does not work well from the punishment perspective side either as evidenced by the places where it is still illegal. So why do you want to make it illegal and what do you hope it could accomplish and how and what do you base that on?

 

[Josie]

Benn there done that and it did not work.

What do you mean by this? What would it look like if it did "work"?

 

[prometeus]

What do you mean by this? What would it look like if it did "work"?

Which part did you not get?

 

[Josie]

Which part did you not get?

You said "been there done that and it did not work" to

First, I don't think getting an abortion should be criminalized. Performing one should be.

How did it not work? What would it have looked like if it did work?

 

[prometeus]

You said "been there done that and it did not work" to



How did it not work? What would it have looked like if it did work?

Abortion has been and is still illegal in many places, both getting it and performing it. For something to "work" it has to produce the desired result(s) and as I said unless you are into the punishing aspect the results were not there.

 

[Josie]

Abortion has been and is still illegal in many places, both getting it and performing it. For something to "work" it has to produce the desired result(s) and as I said unless you are into the punishing aspect the results were not there.

What are the desired results?

 

[prometeus]

What are the desired results?

If you have to ask you are in over your head.

 

[Josie]

If you have to ask you are in over your head.

Is there a reason why you don't want to answer? You seem to KNOW the answer, so why not say it?

 

[BDBoop]

Let's try this. What do you think some of the desired results might be, Mellie? Given what you've learned and absorbed over the course of the thread.

Is there a reason why you don't want to answer? You seem to KNOW the answer, so why not say it?

 

[Josie]

The initial post was....

First, I don't think getting an abortion should be criminalized. Performing one should be.

Now, prometeus said that we've "been there done that and it did not work". And then...

For something to "work" it has to produce the desired result(s) and as I said unless you are into the punishing aspect the results were not there.

The "desired results" ---- are the desired results that abortion doesn't exist anymore? Or that all abortion doctors are either put to death or serving life sentences?

But prometeus also said "unless you're into the punishing aspect" which I thought we were talking about from the beginning - punishing those that perform abortions. So I'm confused on what the "desired results" are that prometeus is talking about. Hopefully he will come back and fill me in.

 

[prometeus]

Is there a reason why you don't want to answer? You seem to KNOW the answer, so why not say it?

Sorry, I have little tolerance for silly bugger games. If you really do not know the answer than you really do not belong in the debate, if you do why the stupid questions?

 

[Josie]

Sorry, I have little tolerance for silly bugger games. If you really do not know the answer than you really do not belong in the debate, if you do why the stupid questions?

I know MY desired results. I don't know what YOU think.

 

[Orion]

If you're pro-life and think the fetus is an individual, yet think abortion is okay in the case of rape, incest, or therapeutic reasons, then you are nothing more than a hypocrite IMO. Either the life of the fetus is sacred to you or it isn't. This flaw in pro-life philosophy is why the movement will never overturn Roe v Wade. It is too myopic. It thinks in one degree instead of thinking several steps ahead.

Repealing Roe v Wade is not good for society in many, many ways, and even if doing so had some benefit, the pro-life movement cannot even get its morals straight.

 

[Josie]

If you're pro-life and think the fetus is an individual, yet think abortion is okay in the case of rape, incest, or therapeutic reasons, then you are nothing more than a hypocrite IMO. Either the life of the fetus is sacred to you or it isn't.

I agree. I'm only for it in cases where the mother's life is in immediate danger.

 

[Bodi]

If you're pro-life and think the fetus is an individual, yet think abortion is okay in the case of rape, incest, or therapeutic reasons, then you are nothing more than a hypocrite IMO. Either the life of the fetus is sacred to you or it isn't. This flaw in pro-life philosophy .

But not a flaw prior to the fetus stage, and hence, not hypocritical...

 

[SheWolf]

Literal solutions? Women who got pregnant and didn't fall into excepted categories would have their babies unless they broke the law. Another radical thought, yes? Actually, you sound very passionate about this. I can respect that. But I'm just as passionate that abortion isn't the answer. Not getting pregnant when you don't want to is the answer.

Not getting pregnant when you don't want to... what kind of answer is that? That is a Utopian mindset. Nothing is wrong with unplanned pregnancies themselves. The real problems are the bad situations the women and young girls are in.

And I can think of three people off the top of my head who got preg on bc. One used spermicide in the 80s, and that isn't very effective alone. When a new brand of bc comes out little is known about the failure rates and risks.

My mother works in an ER and has even seen women brought in in labor and they don't know their pregnant.... one of those women had her tubes tied several months earlier. The only method that is fail proof is a total hysterectomy

 

[SheWolf]

@ NolaMan -- Yes, I'm sure that's true. One can't hide from the statistic that 99% of the time the pill is effective. And since one in five pregnancies are aborted, it's hard to imagine birth control failure being meaningful statistic.

There are two ladies here with subjective experience. One, the OP, whose daughter got pregnant on the pill while married. And LibLady who I believe said (?) she was married as well. I would be interested to know if either effected party chose to have an abortion. I don't expect them to answer this, for even though this is anonymous, well....we'd then always know that about LibLady, as an example. But I'd ask both of you think about it in light of your private answers and ask yourselves, am I part of the problem? Or an illustration that even unwanted pregnancies don't have to be aborted.

No offense to either lady, please.

I am not singling you out.... your posts are just good summaries of the discussion.

All the people I spoke of earlier did not get an abortion. But I don't really think the bc control argument is relevant in terms of legality. I understand people think it has to do with personal responsibility, no excuses, morality, etc, etc. but to take an argument like this in front of the supreme court.. I don't think it would work out or be convincing. Any point to be made about bc is pretty much moot once they are already pregnant...

This topic also stems off into another topic; who should teach children about bc and when? Should bc be subsidized.. should all women have equal access and education. I think they should. I think it's also a men's issue.

 

[SheWolf]

Ok, I could be a classmate. Here's the problem I have; Some pro-lifer's are against BC. This is crazy.

I'm pro-choice, but feel in this day & time abortion should be rare. There are too many forms of BC for women to be getting pregnant accidentally in the scope that abortions seem to be occurring in. In other words; too many women are using abortion as a form of BC, and to me, this is immoral. Wear a damn chastity belt if you're too dumb to use BC.

Here's what I think would happen if abortion became unavailable. Most women would keep the kid. It's no longer a stigma to have an illegitimate kid, it's actually trendy. Unless the kid wasn't normal, most would keep the kid, so there wouldn't be that many more kids available for adoption. Many would use the abortion pills they have out. A handful here and there of dumbasses, would try to self-abort. More women would get tubal ligations sooner than they are now, cause they might have their first child sooner.

Women don't decide when they get tubal ligations... their doctors do..

I have asked about getting one two times, to two different doctors, and they both refused... they said I was too young and I wasn't married, and I have have health issues

 

[BDBoop]

I knew a couple about 30 years ago, five children under the age of six. Ninety days after the birth of #6 she went in to have her tubes tied, and they said come back in 7 months.

OT: welcome to Debate Politics!

Not getting pregnant when you don't want to... what kind of answer is that? That is a Utopian mindset. Nothing is wrong with unplanned pregnancies themselves. The real problems are the bad situations the women and young girls are in.

And I can think of three people off the top of my head who got preg on bc. One used spermicide in the 80s, and that isn't very effective alone. When a new brand of bc comes out little is known about the failure rates and risks.

My mother works in an ER and has even seen women brought in in labor and they don't know their pregnant.... one of those women had her tubes tied several months earlier. The only method that is fail proof is a total hysterectomy

 

[Josie]

The only method that is fail proof is a total hysterectomy

Or abstinence.

 

[SheWolf]

Or abstinence.

If you're planning on becoming a nun.. I guess you can rely on that your entire life

 

[BDBoop]

No, Mellie is abstinent. She's had plenty of relationships with guys that were simply irresistible, and she Stood Strong.

 

[Marilyn Monroe]

Women don't decide when they get tubal ligations... their doctors do..

I have asked about getting one two times, to two different doctors, and they both refused... they said I was too young and I wasn't married, and I have have health issues

If you shop around you can find doctor's who will do what you ask.