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Solutions then

BDBoop

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Soup to nuts. All you pro-lifers, I want to hear Solutions. Roe v Wade is repealed. Every pregnant woman must remain so or face prosecution. How do things work from that point forward in your own privately-held version of Utopia?
 

MaggieD

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Women actually use birth control if they don't want to have babies. How's that for a radical vision?

My vision would also include a provision for women who have been raped to have abortions....those who are mentally/physically handicapped to have abortions.
 

BDBoop

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My daughter got pregnant on birth control twice. Second time four months after birth of first. How's that for radical answer. :)

But oh no no!!! Everybody would claim to be raped! You know how us womenfolk are.
 

BDBoop

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I'm talking about this:

How would anybody ensure she remained pregnant? Would repeat offenders be sterilized? Who would care for her from conception to birth, and her baby to follow?

I'm talking actual solutions.
 

MaggieD

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The "my daughter" subjective story fails, in my opinion. By and large, the women getting abortions are not getting them because birth control failed. That's a common story line. Who really knows? In your case, no one but your daughter.
 

BDBoop

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You seem stuck. Re-read the first post and tell me how things would go. It's easy to say "no more abortion, oh yay!" What would be the literal solutions to all these pregnancies/all those babies?
 

NolaMan

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My daughter got pregnant on birth control twice. Second time four months after birth of first. How's that for radical answer. :)
Going based on this I have to assume that either:

A) Your daughter was not really on birth control and just lied to you
B) She did not use it properly


But oh no no!!! Everybody would claim to be raped! You know how us womenfolk are.
I would suggest that in terms of a rape claim it be required that a police report be filed etc. If the woman is found to be lying, I say put her jail for a short time. I think that would be a good deterrent.
 

BDBoop

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Dude? She was married. She was 25. She had no reason to lie, but it's really shown me what kind of a person you are. Good to know.
 

MaggieD

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You seem stuck. Re-read the first post and tell me how things would go. It's easy to say "no more abortion, oh yay!" What would be the literal solutions to all these pregnancies/all those babies?
Literal solutions? Women who got pregnant and didn't fall into excepted categories would have their babies unless they broke the law. Another radical thought, yes? Actually, you sound very passionate about this. I can respect that. But I'm just as passionate that abortion isn't the answer. Not getting pregnant when you don't want to is the answer.
 

BDBoop

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Literal solutions. No, seriously and please: stop repeating the mantra. Stop and think things through. It's not as simple as no more abortions, it never is. No abortions brings a whole new crop of issues to the forefront. How would they be handled.
 

NolaMan

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Dude? She was married. She was 25. She had no reason to lie, but it's really shown me what kind of a person you are. Good to know.
Just exactly what "kind of person" am I for stating the obvious?

You stated she got pregnant twice on birth control... so there are only three possible scenarios.

1) She was not actually on it
2) She used it improperly
3) Birth control failed

The odds of option three occuring like that are so negligable we can discount that one. So, she was either not on it, or used it improperly if she got pregnant twice while "on it."

I hardly think you can point to that example as your justification to argue that birth control does not work 99.9% of the time.
 

BDBoop

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*reads up, and all over the board* Nope. Never argued that it doesn't work 99% of the time. I suppose an apology is out of the question. :|
 

liblady

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The "my daughter" subjective story fails, in my opinion. By and large, the women getting abortions are not getting them because birth control failed. That's a common story line. Who really knows? In your case, no one but your daughter.
how do you know that?
 

MaggieD

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Literal solutions. No, seriously and please: stop repeating the mantra. Stop and think things through. It's not as simple as no more abortions, it never is. No abortions brings a whole new crop of issues to the forefront. How would they be handled.
What is this whole new crop of issues? They're hardly new since Roe v Wade's only been around since 1973. It is not a mantra to think that babies should not be killed.
 

NolaMan

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*reads up, and all over the board* Nope. Never argued that it doesn't work 99% of the time. I suppose an apology is out of the question. :|
No, you just smugly commented that "My daughter got pregnant on birth control twice. Second time four months after birth of first. How's that for radical answer." in reply to the idea that woman can use birth control to prevent most unwanted pregnancies. You seemed to throw that idea out simply becuase your daughter got pregnant twice while using birth control... my point is that your example does not make birth control any less of an effective solution.
 

liblady

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Going based on this I have to assume that either:

A) Your daughter was not really on birth control and just lied to you
B) She did not use it properly




I would suggest that in terms of a rape claim it be required that a police report be filed etc. If the woman is found to be lying, I say put her jail for a short time. I think that would be a good deterrent.
oh please....i got pregnant with my son when i was on birth control.
 

NolaMan

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oh please....i got pregnant with my son when i was on birth control.
Alright, at the risk of prying here...

What kind of birth control, and did you make sure that you always used it 100% properly?
 

MaggieD

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how do you know that?
Well, I could find links, but I'm afraid you would just shoot them down as "consider the source." So I would ask you to find a link we both would trust that says otherwise.

If you don't want to do that then simply consider that my opinion.
 

BDBoop

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Smugly? Really. Wow.

No, you just smugly commented that "My daughter got pregnant on birth control twice. Second time four months after birth of first. How's that for radical answer." in reply to the idea that woman can use birth control to prevent most unwanted pregnancies. You seemed to throw that idea out simply becuase your daughter got pregnant twice while using birth control... my point is that your example does not make birth control any less of an effective solution.
 

liblady

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Alright, at the risk of prying here...

What kind of birth control, and did you make sure that you always used it 100% properly?
the pill, and yes, i did. my kids are 19 months aparts. i think sometimes the pill can be iffy for awhile after you you birth. after i had my son, at 25, i has my tubes fried. wasn't taking any chances. my ob-gyn wouldn't do it, said i was too young, so his partner did.
 

MaggieD

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@ Lib Lady --
Decided to give it one shot. From the Center for Disease Control: "Approximately one in five U.S. pregnancies have ended in abortion according to a national sample survey conducted by AGI during 2001--2002 among women having abortions (64). Inconsistent method use of the oral contraceptives (75.9%) or condoms (49.3%) was the most common reason that women became pregnant and obtained abortions (22). Unintended pregnancy is a pervasive public health problem for all population subgroups and women of reproductive age (10,61,67)."
Abortion Surveillance --- United States, 2004
 

BDBoop

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So that's my point. How many babies "killed"? Okay. So what is going to happen to All Those Babies? You are going to force the women to stay pregnant, and then what. Poverty, right? Because all the people so eager to hand over an 18+ year sentence will certainly not be handing over 'their' hard-earned money. Or walking the walk. Guess we start building orphanages again, and State-run children's homes.I wonder how many doctors and women will wind up in jail for illegally performing and having abortions?

It's so easy to say 'abortion should be overturned'. I'm giving you that, in this thread. Fine, it's overturned. Stop fighting as though it hadn't been, and start providing solutions. Stop nitpicking over whether birth control does or doesn't work, and start giving some answers.
 

BDBoop

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You don't get that point. Sorry. That's not what we're discussing here. If they aren't using it now, they won't be using it then.

So Then What.
 

liblady

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Well, I could find links, but I'm afraid you would just shoot them down as "consider the source." So I would ask you to find a link we both would trust that says otherwise.

If you don't want to do that then simply consider that my opinion.
thanks for the link. it seems to me that the women were using birth control, but not consistently or properly? so a great number of those women were using bc, anyway.
 
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