• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Solution for Ground Zero Mosque Controversy: Build Two Mosques

Ahlevah

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
9,083
Reaction score
3,022
Location
Pindostan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I was reading the other day about the Muslims who unfold their prayer blankets every Friday afternoon at the Pentagon within feet of the site where American Airlines Flight 77 slammed into the building. The Department of Defense even springs for an imam to conduct a forty minute prayer service. Nary a peep has been heard about this. (AFP: At Pentagon, Muslims pray without protests) Why? Because it's an interfaith chapel and memorial where believers of all faiths can pray.

So I was thinking that maybe the thing for the Muslim promoters of the Ground Zero site to do is say to the larger community: "We believe in our right to worship at this site. But our purpose is to build bridges and not divide. So we invite all who share this vision to help us build an interfaith community center." I think that would serve several purposes: 1) it really would serve to build bridges; 2) it would open up fundraising to a larger pool of donors and help the project come to fruition sooner; and 3) it would put the ball in the court of those who question the motives of the people supporting this project. The Muslims could then focus their primary fundraising efforts on building a Muslim community center on a less controversial site.
 

FilmFestGuy

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
2,120
Reaction score
1,244
Location
Nashville, TN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
I was reading the other day about the Muslims who unfold their prayer blankets every Friday afternoon at the Pentagon within feet of the site where American Airlines Flight 77 slammed into the building. The Department of Defense even springs for an imam to conduct a forty minute prayer service. Nary a peep has been heard about this. (AFP: At Pentagon, Muslims pray without protests) Why? Because it's an interfaith chapel and memorial where believers of all faiths can pray.

So I was thinking that maybe the thing for the Muslim promoters of the Ground Zero site to do is say to the larger community: "We believe in our right to worship at this site. But our purpose is to build bridges and not divide. So we invite all who share this vision to help us build an interfaith community center." I think that would serve several purposes: 1) it really would serve to build bridges; 2) it would open up fundraising to a larger pool of donors and help the project come to fruition sooner; and 3) it would put the ball in the court of those who question the motives of the people supporting this project. The Muslims could then focus their primary fundraising efforts on building a Muslim community center on a less controversial site.

Here's the exact description of the 13-story facility:

Cordoba House is a Muslim-led project which will build a world-class facility that promotes tolerance, reflecting the rich diversity of New York City. The center will be community-driven, serving as a platform for inter-community gatherings and cooperation at all levels, providing a space for all New Yorkers to enjoy. This proposed project is about promoting integration, tolerance of difference and community cohesion through arts and culture. Cordoba House will provide a place where individuals, regardless of their backgrounds, will find a center of learning, art and culture; and most importantly, a center guided by Islamic values in their truest form - compassion, generosity, and respect for all. The site will contain tremendous amounts of resources that otherwise would not exist in Lower Manhattan; a 500-seat auditorium, swimming pool, , library, a fitness center, public conference rooms, a basketball court, art exhibition spaces, bookstores, restaurants - all these services would form a cultural nexus for a region of New York City that, as it continues to grow, requires the sort of hub that Cordoba House will provide.

What gets lost is what this building actually is. Two floors will be dedicated to space for prayer (where, actually around 500 Muslims already pray every Friday).
 

Hoplite

Technomancer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,779
Reaction score
1,077
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Why should the builders of the mosque have to make compromises to make everyone else happy?
 

Orion

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
8,080
Reaction score
3,916
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It's not at ground zero.

It's not a mosque. It's a community centre for public use.

Get your facts straight.
 

Ahlevah

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
9,083
Reaction score
3,022
Location
Pindostan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Two floors will be dedicated to space for prayer (where, actually around 500 Muslims already pray every Friday).

My suggestion was that the prayer facility be for people of all faiths.
 

Ahlevah

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
9,083
Reaction score
3,022
Location
Pindostan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Why should the builders of the mosque have to make compromises to make everyone else happy?

They don't have to. It was just a suggestion.
 

Orion

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
8,080
Reaction score
3,916
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
My suggestion was that the prayer facility be for people of all faiths.

Why? The people building it are Muslims. It's not going to be a universal church.
 

Ahlevah

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
9,083
Reaction score
3,022
Location
Pindostan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
It's not at ground zero.

I know. I used the short-hand in the title hoping people who've followed the story would make the proper inference.

It's not a mosque. It's a community centre for public use.

It's a community center that includes an area devoted to Muslim prayer. The term used to describe that area seems to be appropriate to the Associated Press and countless other news outlets:

In short headlines, some ways to refer to the project include:

_ mosque 2 blocks from WTC site
_ Muslim (or Islamic) center near WTC site
_ mosque near ground zero
_ mosque near WTC site

We can refer to the project as a mosque, or as a proposed Islamic center that includes a mosque.

AP Standards Center issues staff advisory on covering New York City mosque

Get your facts straight.

:shock: Did you read the entire post? :confused:

So I was thinking that maybe the thing for the Muslim promoters of the Ground Zero site to do is say to the larger community: "We believe in our right to worship at this site. But our purpose is to build bridges and not divide. So we invite all who share this vision to help us build an interfaith community center." I think that would serve several purposes: 1) it really would serve to build bridges; 2) it would open up fundraising to a larger pool of donors and help the project come to fruition sooner; and 3) it would put the ball in the court of those who question the motives of the people supporting this project. The Muslims could then focus their primary fundraising efforts on building a Muslim community center on a less controversial site.
 

Ahlevah

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
9,083
Reaction score
3,022
Location
Pindostan
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Why? The people building it are Muslims. It's not going to be a universal church.

Did you read any of the post? I gave three reasons.
 

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
34,902
Reaction score
23,752
Location
Southern England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
A community centre with a prayer area two blocks away is neither a mosque or at ground zero. Such misdescription feeds the inanity and division.
 

joe six-pack

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
384
Location
Six-Pakistan
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
I was reading the other day about the Muslims who unfold their prayer blankets every Friday afternoon at the Pentagon within feet of the site where American Airlines Flight 77 slammed into the building. The Department of Defense even springs for an imam to conduct a forty minute prayer service. Nary a peep has been heard about this. (AFP: At Pentagon, Muslims pray without protests) Why? Because it's an interfaith chapel and memorial where believers of all faiths can pray.

So I was thinking that maybe the thing for the Muslim promoters of the Ground Zero site to do is say to the larger community: "We believe in our right to worship at this site. But our purpose is to build bridges and not divide. So we invite all who share this vision to help us build an interfaith community center." I think that would serve several purposes: 1) it really would serve to build bridges; 2) it would open up fundraising to a larger pool of donors and help the project come to fruition sooner; and 3) it would put the ball in the court of those who question the motives of the people supporting this project. The Muslims could then focus their primary fundraising efforts on building a Muslim community center on a less controversial site.
I think the core of what you are saying is that, as a show of good faith (pun intended), the planners of this new Community Center could designate at least one room to interfaith prayer, be it Christian, Judaic, Buddhist or Hindu. That is actually one of the most reasonable suggestions I've heard from the Right (no offense meant). The fact that I didn't have to correct you that it wasn't a "Terrorist Command Center" or "Tribute to the Taliban" speaks volumes for your tolerant and rational view of the planned project.

To me, the fact that they will have a swimming pool, restaurants and amenities, tells me that they could easily have a prayer area dedicated to all faiths. Ultimately, the Judaic-Christian-Muslim belief system dictates that there is only one God, therefore any religion worshiping God must be paying tribute to Him in their own way.

Although I disagree that there is a "need" for them to do this--no one is saying new Churches or Synagogues should have an interfaith center--I do agree with the spirit of your suggestion. It should be a bridge between cultures. I also want to thank you for your honesty mentioning the Pentagon Abby where Muslims pray every day. There is sincerity in what you write, regardless of whether or not I agree with it entirely.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
11,430
Reaction score
2,282
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
A REAL solution to stop the terrorists from building a monument on the ground where a massive islamic atrocity occured:

Antiquities Act
The Act was intended to allow the President to set aside certain valuable public natural areas as park and conservation land. The 1906 act stated that it was intended for: "... the protection of objects of historic and scientific interest." These areas are given the title of "National Monuments." It also allows him to reserve or accept private lands for that purpose. The aim is to protect all historic and prehistoric sites on United States federal lands and to prohibit excavation or destruction of these antiquities. With this act, this can be done much more quickly than going though the Congressional process of creating a National Park. The Act states that areas of the monuments are to be confined to the smallest area compatible with the proper care and management of the objects to be protected.

Declare the site a national monument, be done with it. The terrorists don't have to take a victory lap anywhere.

It's that simple.

And it can be done anytime.

The right of the terrorists to build a temple celebrating their victory on 911 won't be interfered with. They just won't able to celebrate it on the site of the murders their martyrs committed.
 

Agent Ferris

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
4,324
Reaction score
915
Location
Past the edge of the universe, through the singula
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Here's the exact description of the 13-story facility:



What gets lost is what this building actually is. Two floors will be dedicated to space for prayer (where, actually around 500 Muslims already pray every Friday).

Call me when they start offering prayer services to non-Muslim members of the community. Non-Muslims allowed to used the facility so that they may receive Dawa =/= interfaith community center which is something that we can all get behind even an atheist like me. But ofcourse that won't happen because this is not about building bridges it's about burning them.
 

Agent Ferris

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
4,324
Reaction score
915
Location
Past the edge of the universe, through the singula
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Why should the builders of the mosque have to make compromises to make everyone else happy?

They don't have to, good luck getting construction workers to build this ****ing thing and good luck getting the teamsters to cross a picket line. Have fun with that.
 

Agent Ferris

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
4,324
Reaction score
915
Location
Past the edge of the universe, through the singula
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It's not at ground zero.

It was hit by a large piece of landing gear from one of the planes.

It's not a mosque. It's a community centre for public use.

They will not be offering religious services for any non-Muslim members of the community, they will be offering religious services to only Muslims, non-Muslims will be allowed entry the same as anyother Mosque so that they may receive Dawa.

Mosque - any place of Muslim worship. A jami-masjid or Friday Mosque is a major mosque where weekly prayer services are performed and a sermon or khutbah is given.

It's literally the textbook defintion of a Mosque.

Get your facts straight.

You get your facts straight.
 

Agent Ferris

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
4,324
Reaction score
915
Location
Past the edge of the universe, through the singula
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
A community centre with a prayer area two blocks away is neither a mosque or at ground zero. Such misdescription feeds the inanity and division.

When will they be offering religious services to non Muslim members of the community?

That's a rhetorical question, they will not be offering religious services for any non-Muslim members of the community, they will be offering religious services exclusively to Muslims, non-Muslims will be allowed entry the same as at most any other Mosque in order that they may receive Dawa.

Mosque - any place of Muslim worship. A jami-masjid or Friday Mosque is a major mosque where weekly prayer services are performed and a sermon or khutbah is given.

It's literally the textbook defintion of a Mosque.
 
Last edited:

marduc

don't panic
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
5,333
Reaction score
3,591
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
One of a million threads on the same subject, and the entire controversy disgusts me, but this is America... deal with it. Anything else and it is a victory for the terrorists because we abandon all that we are and stoop to their level.
 

Hoplite

Technomancer
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3,779
Reaction score
1,077
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
They don't have to, good luck getting construction workers to build this ****ing thing and good luck getting the teamsters to cross a picket line. Have fun with that.
As I've said before, I'd be willing to work on it just to piss people like you off.
 

Agent Ferris

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
4,324
Reaction score
915
Location
Past the edge of the universe, through the singula
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
As I've said before, I'd be willing to work on it just to piss people like you off.

Good luck getting the building materials from a domestic provider, and if you get the materials from a foreign provider good luck getting them off the dock, and if you manage to get them off the dock then good luck getting the teamsters to cross a picket line, and if you get the teamsters to cross a picket line good luck getting more than just you to help build it.

Have fun with that, see you in about 30 years after you finish floors 1 through 2.
 

marduc

don't panic
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
5,333
Reaction score
3,591
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 

Agent Ferris

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
4,324
Reaction score
915
Location
Past the edge of the universe, through the singula
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I seriously doubt you'll be able to find enough scabs to build this thing. And even if you do again good luck getting a domestic provider for the building materials, and if you do manage that good luck getting the teamsters to cross a picket line, and if resort to an international provider for the materials good luck getting it off the docks and again once off the docks good luck with the teamsters. Have fun with that. Welcome to NYC assholes I got yer victory Mosque right here!
 

marduc

don't panic
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
5,333
Reaction score
3,591
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
already have two scabs volunteering here just in the last 5 minutes. Police will make sure the **** gets from the docks to them (we are dependant mostly on foreign steel and all anyhow nowadays.. so domestic sources is moot).

edit.. well only one "official" volunteer/scab (I'm the second unspoken one), but let me change that, Ill help them build the ****er for no other reason than the freedom to do so is what our nation is about.
 
Last edited:

Agent Ferris

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
4,324
Reaction score
915
Location
Past the edge of the universe, through the singula
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
already have two scabs volunteering here just in the last 5 minutes. Police will make sure the **** gets from the docks to them (we are dependant mostly on foreign steel and all anyhow nowadays.. so domestic sources is moot).

lol I meant good luck getting the teamsters to deliver it and good luck getting the dock workers to unload the foreign shipped steel. Have fun with that.
 

marduc

don't panic
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
5,333
Reaction score
3,591
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
lol I meant good luck getting the teamsters to deliver it and good luck getting the dock workers to unload the foreign shipped steel. Have fun with that.

yes feel the rage, and grasp desperately at your impotent threats
 
Top Bottom