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Soldiers still waiting for armor reimbursements

The_Real_ElRoi

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Pentagon fails to figure out how to pay back troops' personal expenditures
WASHINGTON - Nearly a year after Congress demanded action, the Pentagon has still failed to figure out a way to reimburse soldiers for body armor and equipment they purchased to better protect themselves while serving in Iraq.

Soldiers and their parents are still spending hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars for armor they say the military won’t provide. One U.S. senator said Wednesday he will try again to force the Pentagon to obey the reimbursement law it opposed from the outset and has so far not implemented.

Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said he will offer amendments to the defense appropriations bill working its way through Congress, to take the funding issue out of the hands of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and give control to military unit commanders in the field.

(continued at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9524109/)

This sort of thing is shameful. They can pay Halliburton billions in "No-Bid" contracts and for work that isn't even getting done, but they make GI's and their families pay for body armor and all sorts of other stuff that is supposed to be provided for them by the military. Frickin' ridicules. "George Bush cares about the troops," what BS. How some people in the military and their families can continue to support that sham of a leader is beyond comprehension.
 
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gdalton

I think it should be "congress cares about the troops, what B.S.". They can pass bills that waste billions on useless bridges and highways, they can waste their time on MLB players who juice, and form committees left and right to find out who they can kick out of congress, but they won't take the time to discuss most of the real problems this country faces.

We should march on DC and demand representation. Oh, wait, we are the ones that voted these morons in, maybe we should pay attention to more then the party name on the ballots.
 

The_Real_ElRoi

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Agreed. However, Bush is the President appoint, I mean elect and ultimately as Harry Truman said, "The Buck Stops Here." If Bush really gave a **** about the troops as he so often claims, he could get this situation straightened out. He holds the most powerful job in the world. Period. All he would have to do is say, "Get it done or find a new job." If Congress were truly the problem, and I'm not saying they are not part of the problem, all he would have to do is publicly identify who in Congress was causing the problem. I don't think any of those people would care to be publicly 'outed' for not supporting out troops. So, Bush's BS about how he cares so much about our troops is just that, BS.
 
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gdalton

The_Real_ElRoi said:
Agreed. However, Bush is the President appoint, I mean elect and ultimately as Harry Truman said, "The Buck Stops Here." If Bush really gave a **** about the troops as he so often claims, he could get this situation straightened out. He holds the most powerful job in the world. Period. All he would have to do is say, "Get it done or find a new job." If Congress were truly the problem, and I'm not saying they are not part of the problem, all he would have to do is publicly identify who in Congress was causing the problem. I don't think any of those people would care to be publicly 'outed' for not supporting out troops. So, Bush's BS about how he cares so much about our troops is just that, BS.
I can't argue with that.
 

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Oh big damn deal. Everyone is acting like some kind of tragedy has happened and they are parading it around to use as a tool against the President.

The fact is, we always buy our own crap and nobody gives a damn. But here's your chance to jump on the President.

The whole armor / flak issue was blown way out of proportion.
 

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Yeah, I'm kind of inclined to take the word of a Gunny over that of a civvie armchair Bush-basher.
 
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gdalton

Yeah the Bush bashing is apparent, but don't you think he could try to persuade the congress to introduce a bill that would help pay for some of this stuff. I mean if we can pass bills to build bridges to no where and paint fish on planes we can at least spend a few bucks protecting our military personnel. Everything the man has asked congress for he has gotten, so he could at least ask.

I’m not bashing, I’m just questioning.
 

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The_Real_ElRoi said:
Agreed. However, Bush is the President appoint, I mean elect
Just because I always make it a point to address this whenever some Gomer posts it:

Tell us, specifically:
How was the Court's 7-2 decision, regarding the question of FL election law providing the Equal Protection specified in the 14th Amendment, in error?

Generally, said Gomer ignores the question.
 

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gdalton said:
Yeah the Bush bashing is apparent, but don't you think he could try to persuade the congress to introduce a bill that would help pay for some of this stuff. I mean if we can pass bills to build bridges to no where and paint fish on planes we can at least spend a few bucks protecting our military personnel. Everything the man has asked congress for he has gotten, so he could at least ask.

I’m not bashing, I’m just questioning.
We receive an allowance once a year for uniform upkeep. It is different for each rank. As a Gunny, I get roughly $300.00.

We receive a basic issue from our "supplies" (S-4 Section) when checking into a new unit. This gear gets turned in when checking out. This issue consists of all the basic combat gear that is necessary. This gear was outdated and has been since the Vietnam war. When you see 'Platoon'...we're still wearing it. We have always had to keep our own wall locker (uniforms) updated from our pay checks. This includes boots. Since the turn of the century, Marines, for the most part have been buying more practical equipment from civilian companies. Things like thigh holsters, tactical slings, tactical lanyards, tactical flashlights, better water systems (Camel backs), dual magazine holders, etc. This is equipment that our SWAT Teams have always had. For the longest time, we have been the best fighting force with outdated gear. In the last few years, the Marine Corps has been spending large amounts of money on equipment and have been equipping us with this gear through our Supplies (S-4 Section) so that we don't have to buy some of this on our own. We have an updated Flak stystem that allows the insertion of plates, which protect against 'one' 7.62 round. After the first impact, the plate is supposed to crack, however, the flak design leaves our kidneys exposed. We have improved uniforms (Digital Cammies) and boots. We have an improved helmet now that deflects rounds better. Our weapons systems have been vastly improved.

The reason for all of this need?......The great surplus of the 90's came at a cost.

When people bash the President and the government and say that they don't care about us, they are utterly wrong. The reason there was a small problem with armor a few years ago, was that it was new technology and they couldn't get it to us fast enough. I myself, spent half of the war without it. Did it matter? Since it was new technology and we never were "bullet proof" before..no. There was also a contract problem with the company that was handing out defective gear.
 
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gdalton

Oh, I misunderstood the situation then. My brother showed me that flak jacket with the plates when he came home a few months ago, I can't see how you guys walk around with all that crap on especially in that heat, those vests are so frickin heavy and that’s without all the amo, water, and everything else.

So basically this all boils down to the new stuff having to filter through to the ground troops and some troops choosing to buy other equipment for themselves, I guess I got suckered with the :spin:
 

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gdalton said:
Oh, I misunderstood the situation then. My brother showed me that flak jacket with the plates when he came home a few months ago, I can't see how you guys walk around with all that crap on especially in that heat, those vests are so frickin heavy and that’s without all the amo, water, and everything else.

So basically this all boils down to the new stuff having to filter through to the ground troops and some troops choosing to buy other equipment for themselves, I guess I got suckered with the :spin:

Like I said, this whole issue was blown way out of proportion. It's just one more tool used by Democrats to bash the President.

All that crap is actually quite comfortable. At least I always thought. This is why we go on 20 mile humps (hikes) during training. It makes it so that walking around on a patrol for a few miles is nothing.
 

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A far cry from the days of dunkirk,omaha,etc...,
where the men hit the beaches with a hail of bullets on them
no armour but cotton cloths

today mommy and daddy want to send them off with the best kevlar money can buy
whats next 18 crt gold dog tags

if americans want to back a war better off spending on body bags
they will find out what the marines can win the gaurd will not be able to hold without severe loses
 

Harshaw

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Canuck said:
A far cry from the days of dunkirk,omaha,etc...,
where the men hit the beaches with a hail of bullets on them
no armour but cotton cloths

today mommy and daddy want to send them off with the best kevlar money can buy
whats next 18 crt gold dog tags

if americans want to back a war better off spending on body bags
they will find out what the marines can win the gaurd will not be able to hold without severe loses
Ask the nurse about increasing your drip.
 

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Canuck said:
today mommy and daddy want to send them off with the best kevlar money can buy
whats next 18 crt gold dog tags
Hardy a valid comparison.

What's so wrong with sending your troops out with good protection? If you have the capability of doing so, it only helps to protect them, moral, and your training investment in the individual soldier. None of this is bad.

The psycological impact of having the enemy shoot one of your soldiers, only to have him return fire is also a blow to your enemy's moral. That can be huge, in terms of the enemy's will to fight.
 
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gdalton said:
Oh, I misunderstood the situation then. My brother showed me that flak jacket with the plates when he came home a few months ago, I can't see how you guys walk around with all that crap on especially in that heat, those vests are so frickin heavy and that’s without all the amo, water, and everything else.

So basically this all boils down to the new stuff having to filter through to the ground troops and some troops choosing to buy other equipment for themselves, I guess I got suckered with the :spin:

Not really. That equiptment is supposed to be standard and it's not only the plates that soldiers have been forced to by on their own it's helmets, combat boots, scopes, etc etc ad infinitum. I believe that we can blame the president..not for the past misgivings of the pentagon on this issue but for allowing the 87 billion, that was supposed to go towards buying proper equiptment for our troops, to be funneled into other programs and projects. Not one dime of it went towards it's secifically stated purpose and it's not as if the pentagon is short on cash. It's Bush's responsibility as commander in chief to rein these people in and take care of our troops by providing the standard equiptment.
 

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Not really. That equiptment is supposed to be standard and it's not only the plates that soldiers have been forced to by on their own it's helmets, combat boots, scopes, etc etc ad infinitum. I believe that we can blame the president..not for the past misgivings of the pentagon on this issue but for allowing the 87 billion, that was supposed to go towards buying proper equiptment for our troops, to be funneled into other programs and projects. Not one dime of it went towards it's secifically stated purpose and it's not as if the pentagon is short on cash. It's Bush's responsibility as commander in chief to rein these people in and take care of our troops by providing the standard equiptment.
Lies lies lies. Scopes are not standard...boots have always been a part of our clothing allowance....helmets are always issued...troops are better equiped now than they have ever been. Not one other time in history have we upgraded so many things in such a short period of time. Why do you continue to speak on what is totally out of your capabilities to understand and of what you are clueless to?

By the way, I have the "standard" issue. Would you like a list?
 
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GySgt said:
Lies lies lies. Scopes are not standard...boots have always been a part of our clothing allowance....helmets are always issued...troops are better equiped now than they have ever been. Not one other time in history have we upgraded so many things in such a short period of time. Why do you continue to speak on what is totally out of your capabilities to understand and of what you are clueless to?

By the way, I have the "standard" issue. Would you like a list?
Lies lies lies on your part. The pentagon hasn't been giving our troops standard equiptment and most of the equiptment that has been given is not only outdated, it's defective. Thats why Congress mandated the Pentagon to reimburse the soldiers over a year ago which they have not done.
 

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Lies lies lies on your part. The pentagon hasn't been giving our troops standard equiptment and most of the equiptment that has been given is not only outdated, it's defective. Thats why Congress mandated the Pentagon to reimburse the soldiers over a year ago which they have not done.

Why would I lie? I wear the gear remember? Doing it again huh? You said boots, and scopes were "standard" equipment. This was a lie. Scopes are a specialty item and boots have always been a clothing allowance item.

What "standard" equipment besides the new Armor (which wasn't standard a two years ago), have we not been given?

As far as outdated and defective. This was a problem. It's not anymore. It hasn't been a problem since Bush took over. Our gear has been updated across the spectrum and improved faster than it has in history.
 

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GySgt said:
Why would I lie? I wear the gear remember? Doing it again huh? You said boots, and scopes were "standard" equipment. This was a lie. Scopes are a specialty item and boots have always been a clothing allowance item.

What "standard" equipment besides the new Armor (which wasn't standard a two years ago), have we not been given?

As far as outdated and defective. This was a problem. It's not anymore. It hasn't been a problem since Bush took over. Our gear has been updated across the spectrum and improved faster than it has in history.
People dont realize what military is about. Therefore they cant understand what adjectives and charactarizations there are amongst it. The fact is the military doesnt issue a scope to a corpsman. Those are for snipers. The boots are issued to every perso in the armed forces under the allowance which is what gunny mentioned. Since Bush the military has astoundingly been far better than knob job man. Clinton shut down some 30% of our military installations and claimed it was for the better a nd ease of our military. When Bush came in we have now been able to get better wages and benefits. Our retirement is more, the BAH is more. Also heres one thing you will like. Bush has implemented funding for the production of 300new F22 raptors in the next 10yrs. That will be a indellable threat to whoever seeks to harm us. That is the plane I hope to pilot someday.
 

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SKILMATIC said:
People dont realize what military is about. Therefore they cant understand what adjectives and charactarizations there are amongst it. The fact is the military doesnt issue a scope to a corpsman. Those are for snipers. The boots are issued to every perso in the armed forces under the allowance which is what gunny mentioned. Since Bush the military has astoundingly been far better than knob job man. Clinton shut down some 30% of our military installations and claimed it was for the better a nd ease of our military. When Bush came in we have now been able to get better wages and benefits. Our retirement is more, the BAH is more. Also heres one thing you will like. Bush has implemented funding for the production of 300new F22 raptors in the next 10yrs. That will be a indellable threat to whoever seeks to harm us. That is the plane I hope to pilot someday.

We have ACOGS now too. These are scopes that mount on our M16A4s. However, this isn't standard issue. Not every Marine gets one. Just like not every Marine gets an M203 (Grenade launcher). Only one is issued per fire team.
 

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GySgt said:
We have ACOGS now too. These are scopes that mount on our M16A4s. However, this isn't standard issue. Not every Marine gets one. Just like not every Marine gets an M203 (Grenade launcher). Only one is issued per fire team.
Exactly, not everyone gets a AT4 either. Each squad gets a little of each. You cant just have a squad full of people with M63 or M82A1. The fact is there needs to be a little of each. A sniper, a couple of M4A1 or M16, a guy with M203, a AT4 guy and refiller, and some machine gunners with M63, and a turret guy manning the usual 50cal or m60. There needs to be a plethera of people.
 
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GySgt said:
Doing it again huh? You said boots, and scopes were "standard" equipment. This was a lie. Scopes are a specialty item and boots have always been a clothing allowance item.

What "standard" equipment besides the new Armor (which wasn't standard a two years ago), have we not been given?
Scopes are standard equiptment. Combat boots and helmuts are standard equiptment which have not been issued to all troops. In fact, the army gets some standard equiptment that national guard soldiers are forced to pay for out of their own pocket including riffles and eye-protectors. There's a very long list.

GySgt said:
As far as outdated and defective. This was a problem. It's not anymore. It hasn't been a problem since Bush took over. Our gear has been updated across the spectrum and improved faster than it has in history.
Yet another lie from you. Even Donald Rumsfeld admitted that the troops are using outdated and defective equiptment. The DOD gave our troops gas masks and MOPP suits when we went into Iraq that had were proven to be defective, many of which had holes in them, and all of them were proven to leak in 1997 and the soldiers were told to use duct tape to cover the holes. DUCT TAPE?!
 

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Scopes are standard equiptment. Combat boots and helmuts are standard equiptment which have not been issued to all troops. In fact, the army gets some standard equiptment that national guard soldiers are forced to pay for out of their own pocket including riffles and eye-protectors. There's a very long list.



Yet another lie from you. Even Donald Rumsfeld admitted that the troops are using outdated and defective equiptment. The DOD gave our troops gas masks and MOPP suits when we went into Iraq that had were proven to be defective, many of which had holes in them, and all of them were proven to leak in 1997 and the soldiers were told to use duct tape to cover the holes. DUCT TAPE?!

Oh my God! SCOPES ARE NOT STANDARD ISSUE. BOOTS ARE NOT STANDARD ISSUE. What troops don't have helmets? Eye protectors? Until early last year, even the Marine Corps has always come out of pocket. What else you got?

The National Guard are under equipped, because they are not supposed to be doing this ****. RIFLES? Personal rifles were and are not authorized to take over. Where do you dig up your BS?


"Yet another lie from you."

Where was the lie? Damn you are ignorant. What units? You think this is a Bush problem? Of course there was left over garbage from the 90's. Ripped NBC suits was not a Marine Corps problem and it only affected units that were in trail behind the combatants. It was not a problem. It's amazing how you people care now that you can use it to bash who wasn't responsible, but has been fixing it in leaps and bounds. None of you cared during the 90's when we were sucken up Al-Queda attacks with crappy gear.

The National Guard are not military.

Do you realize that you are talking to an individual who is a leader of large amounts of Marines and wears this gear you claim to know so much about?
 
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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Scopes are standard equiptment. Combat boots and helmuts are standard equiptment which have not been issued to all troops. In fact, the army gets some standard equiptment that national guard soldiers are forced to pay for out of their own pocket including riffles and eye-protectors. There's a very long list.



Yet another lie from you. Even Donald Rumsfeld admitted that the troops are using outdated and defective equiptment. The DOD gave our troops gas masks and MOPP suits when we went into Iraq that had were proven to be defective, many of which had holes in them, and all of them were proven to leak in 1997 and the soldiers were told to use duct tape to cover the holes. DUCT TAPE?!
And may I ask what branch did you serve under and how long? O thats right you never once served so how would you know? Civilians dont know squat about military and anyhting about it. No one is going to listen to your false claims. They are not opinions they are false. If a soldier needs something they are issued it form their CO.

Scopes are standard equipment for snipers not a turret gunner. Your not going to issue a corpsman a scope are you? How about a combat engineer? Or a delta 19 which is a tank driver? The fact is not everything is standard issued. There a different things that are standardly issued in certain MOS. And national guardsmen dont pay a dime for weapons or supplies for that weapon. Where did you hear this? Rumsfeld is like 80yrs old. He has no understanding on what we need. He still beleives in trench warfare. The soldiers are well armed and well supplied. I know this cause we constantly supplied our troops on the ground with artillery and other ordinance.
 
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