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Soft boot camp for a soft generation

Johnny said:
More suicides are committed by service members that haven't seen combat than those who have.
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It's just the age, and the fact that they're mostly male.
Males between 18 and 26 are high-risk for suicide.
Army suicide rates aren't that much higher than gen-pop suicide rates, once they've been adjusted for age and sex.
Army life can be stressful; on the other hand, recruits are supposed to be screened for psych problems before enlisting. So it's troubling that so many psychologically fragile or unstable individuals are getting in.
 
The military is one of those things that know matter how much research you do you don't ever really know how you'll handle it until you're in.
 
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Sorry that isn't completely accurate. I think it was something like 300 some soldiers in Iraqi in 2009 along committed suicide vs around 150 that actually died in combat.
 
I'm not about to form and opinion based on a 'reported' news version of what goes on at boot-camp.

I know better to believe they actually have full knowledge of what's really happening.
 
I do know they still throw you in a room and tear gas you. I can't wait for that part. :eek:
 
Yeah the gas chamber sucks. My dumb ass tried to run for the door. I got jacked up to the wall by a 300 pound scary ass DI.
 
Is it supposed to just show you what tear gas is like or are you supposed to try and think your way out of it?
 
JohnWOlin said:
I do know they still throw you in a room and tear gas you. I can't wait for that part. :eek:
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When I did navy boot camp, I did my service week at the firefighting school, which is also where bootcamp people go through the gas chamber. Of course, the first day of service week we all get sent into the gas chamber of the recruits finished as initiation, which sucks. Then, the week after service week, when we did fire fighting and went through the gas chamber, the instructor of course remembered me and held me up from leaving the chamber, making an additional hell, and then when out, sent me back in to turn off the burner for him. So I got triple gas chambered.

I will say this, the gas chamber does give you a real appreciation for your gas mask. I also know that if I am ever anywhere where tear gas is threatened, I am leaving.

On the topic of the thread: the purpose of boot camp is to teach reliance on the group, the importance of following orders, discipline, and achieve a certain level of physical ability. It also is designed to instill a certain amount of pride. Over the years, the methods to achieve that end have evolved, but the end result is the same. Worrying that things are too easy is something that every generation complains about the generation that comes after. We heard about how easy boot camp was when I went through, and now we are the ones doing the bitching. Somehow, the job gets done even so.
 
Orion said:
Is it supposed to just show you what tear gas is like or are you supposed to try and think your way out of it?
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The gas chamber is there to instill appreciation for your gas mask and the importance of NBC gear. It does a remarkable job of doing just that.
 
From what I understand it is so you understand what tear gas does, to appreciate your tools and the gas itself, and for you to think twice before using it in certain situations. Also I'm not 100% sure about this Johnny, but I don't think they can legally slam you against a wall or anything.
 
Redress said:
The gas chamber is there to instill appreciation for your gas mask and the importance of NBC gear. It does a remarkable job of doing just that.
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But you still have dumbdicks who go "but I don't ever need my gas mask - I'll grow out my beard and then bitch at head when they come down on me"
 
JohnWOlin said:
From what I understand it is so you understand what tear gas does, to appreciate your tools and the gas itself, and for you to think twice before using it in certain situations. Also I'm not 100% sure about this Johnny, but I don't think they can legally slam you against a wall or anything.
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You are right they can't..... That said..... :shrug:


That said, if you are too much a pansy to not be able to take a "slam against the wall" perhaps knitting is more your speed. :shrug:
 
JohnWOlin said:
From what I understand it is so you understand what tear gas does, to appreciate your tools and the gas itself, and for you to think twice before using it in certain situations. Also I'm not 100% sure about this Johnny, but I don't think they can legally slam you against a wall or anything.
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He was doing his job. They can use force if necessary to ensure recruits don't try to run out. I should've did what I was supposed to do.

Granted this was a long time ago.

The whole boot camp factor makes the gas chamber scarier than it is.

It's much better and actually kind of fun in the fleet.
 
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You know what was also funny about my first tine in the gas chamber. I remember another DI took off his gas mask and was yelling at a recruit. That was epic. LMAO
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You are right they can't..... That said..... :shrug:


That said, if you are too much a pansy to not be able to take a "slam against the wall" perhaps knitting is more your speed. :shrug:
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Well in the airforce I think all they do is set you in front of a videogame and simulate it now. I was actually disappointed when I read they can't touch you. At the same time, being the kind of guy I am I don't know if I could take someone getting physical with me without ****ing punching them in the face. I look forward to the gas chamber though, I invite any kind of pain.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Well in the airforce I think all they do is set you in front of a videogame and simulate it now.
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As an AF vet, I can say this observation is retarded and based on nothing. Who are you talking about? flyers? enlisted? Who?


I was actually disappointed when I read they can't touch you. At the same time, being the kind of guy I am I don't know if I could take someone getting physical with me without ****ing punching them in the face. I look forward to the gas chamber though, I invite any kind of pain.
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What do you mean by physical?
 
JohnWOlin said:
Well in the airforce I think all they do is set you in front of a videogame and simulate it now. I was actually disappointed when I read they can't touch you. At the same time, being the kind of guy I am I don't know if I could take someone getting physical with me without ****ing punching them in the face. I look forward to the gas chamber though, I invite any kind of pain.
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They have not been able to "touch" recruits since before I joined(1987). Somehow the recruits coming out of boot camp still got the job done. I think you have very confused ideas about how boot camp works.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
As an AF vet, I can say this observation is retarded and based on nothing. Who are you talking about? flyers? enlisted? Who?





What do you mean by physical?
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I'm just ****ing with ya. Also no Redress I think I have a decent idea of how it works I'm just ****in around.
 
Kind of an off topic question, but I'd like to put this out to the vets.

Did you find that once you joined the military, your social status in society increased? What I mean is... did people start showing you more respect, did you get more rewards, more pride from your family and friends?

I am really curious about the reasons as to why people decide to sign up. A lot of want to serve their country, continue a family tradition, and have a job that gives them a lot of skills, but there must also be a prestige factor too, no?
 
Orion said:
Kind of an off topic question, but I'd like to put this out to the vets.

Did you find that once you joined the military, your social status in society increased? What I mean is... did people start showing you more respect, did you get more rewards, more pride from your family and friends?

I am really curious about the reasons as to why people decide to sign up. A lot of want to serve their country, continue a family tradition, and have a job that gives them a lot of skills, but there must also be a prestige factor too, no?
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It depends alot. In Jacksonville, the police used to mark tires of cars with DoD stickers parked at bars so they could look for them when bars closed. It's illegal to do, but was pretty common. In Norfolk, people casually treated those who looked to be military like ****. Once you get away from military cities however, we got treated a lot better. Family and friends definitely respected the decision to join and what we did.
 
I don't get it. Why were the tires marked?
 
Orion said:
I don't get it. Why were the tires marked?
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So the cops could pull them over and check if they where drunk. See, the problem is a military base has a very large collection of young people who tend to be loud and disruptive. Locals don't appreciate having people like that around, and for legitimate reasons. Drunk and disorderlies around military bases tend to be too frequent. So to kind of get even, we had to put up with a low level of harassment. Targeting navy people for being pulled over was part of it.
 
cpwill said:
actually to a good extent you do. if i can recommend an excellent piece on this, Col Grossmans' 'On Killing' discusses (as i recall) at some length the need to dehumanize the enemy in order to be able to kill him.

as for chronological snobbery; no, boot camp has gotten weaker and softer as our society has gotten weaker and softer.
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cpwill hit the nail on the head, also you should read "On Combat" by Colonel Grossman. It details that the best thing you can do is to train your men as hard as possible. One quote from the book that I constantly remind myself of is "You never RISE to the occasion, you only sink to the level of your training". If you slouched during rehearsals, if you zoned out during the orders, if you never got in the prone when you were supposed to and never utilized cover because 'hell the other guys just have blanks and BFAs', then that is what you will sink to.

A Colonel had the best advice I have ever heard, "Be a son of a b*tch in training, your men will thank you later"
 
JohnWOlin said:
Here is what I am reading--people that are to ***** themselves to actually join bitching about it, or old timers that didn't have to rely on advanced technology to keep us out of harms way bitching about it, not taking in account that more people commit suicide in the military than actually die in combat.

I might be joining up early next year and nobody I have talked to think it is to soft at all. Also good one cpwill, guarantees they come home in body bags huh?
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Well your really not in any position to speak intelligently about training. Considering you "might" be joining, maybe you should let those who have experience sleep deprivation, reduced rations, and misery you cant imagine talk about it. What I am saying is the army has gone crazy with there rules and regulations on training, even the USMC hasnt escaped completely (black flag days, there arent any black flag days in Iraq), albeit its nothing like the army. I am not trying to start an army vs. Marines pissing match, but there is a vast difference in the training philosophies. I speak from experience btw. But getting back to my main point, I am trying to reinforce the old adage, "The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war" and this included mental and physical hardship.

Just a side note, and completely un-related, simunitions are the best training tool, they hurt like crazy, especially when nailed in the knuckles. cpwill, I am sure can attest to that. Just a good example.
 
Johnny said:
You know what was also funny about my first tine in the gas chamber. I remember another DI took off his gas mask and was yelling at a recruit. That was epic. LMAO
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THAT is awesome.
 
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