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Socialist Democracy (Viva Revolution!)

Another really great documentary on Castro is "Fidel". I rented it a little while ago and it really showed the side of Castro the public hardly sees. I am not saying a agree with Castro's policies etc. but it was still very interesting watching the film. If you haven't watched it, I recommend you see it.
 
Z.D. said:
Another really great documentary on Castro is "Fidel". I rented it a little while ago and it really showed the side of Castro the public hardly sees. I am not saying a agree with Castro's policies etc. but it was still very interesting watching the film. If you haven't watched it, I recommend you see it.

Some people think Hitler and Stalin were cool.
 
sorry for being so blunt, but what does that have to do with anything?

Some people think Hitler and Stalin were cool.

:confused:
 
Socialism has been nothing less than a complete disaster in every country that has tried it, regardless of whether it was a democracy or dictatorship. Name for me one country where socialism (sustained for more than 20-30 years) has improved the quality of life. There aren't any. Socialism has been a spectacular failure in every single place it has been tried without a single exception.

Let's examine the history of various countries and tell me if socialism didn't cause the problem.

- West Germany and East Germany had roughly equivalent standards of living following WWII. When the Berlin wall collapsed, West Germany had more than twice the GDP per capita of East Germany. Coincidence?

- North and South Korea had roughly equivalent standards of living prior to the Korean War. Today, North Korea is one of the poorest countries in the world and South Korea is the fourth richest country in Asia. Coincidence?

- Ancient China was very capitalistic and was one of the most productive ancient civilizations. Around the time of the Black Death, China embraced collectivist socialism and entered a Dark Age lasting hundreds of years. Following WWII, Hong Kong began free-market reforms and is now one of the wealthiest states in the world. In 1979, China proper began free-market reforms and has been expanding ever since. Coincidence?

- India was Soviet-allied during the Cold War, adopting a socialist economy favored by none other than well-meaning Gandhi. In the 1990s, India abandoned socialism and opened its doors to the world. It has been prospering ever since and has a large middle-class today. Coincidence?

- Western Europe was American-allied during the Cold War, adopting capitalist economies. The countries, for the most part, prospered under such a system and many of them became among the wealthiest states in the world. Following the collapse of the Berlin Wall, many of them embraced socialism and have grown very slowly or stagnated ever since. Coincidence?
 
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Would anyone hear support a violent " Socialist Democracy" revolution?
 
Kandahar

In every one of those countries however, it was dictatorship. Lenin once said socialism needs democracy how humans need oxygen(or something like that). In my opinion there hasn't been a form of socialism that Lenin and Marx would of smiled upon. All those countries never even tried to become a socialist democracy. I find that your examples are not the best ways of expressing how socialism was a failure. All these countries are not true socialist nations and never attempted to be a true socialist nation. They just used socialism as a way of getting around what they really thought.
 
Z.D. said:
Kandahar

In every one of those countries however, it was dictatorship. Lenin once said socialism needs democracy how humans need oxygen(or something like that). In my opinion there hasn't been a form of socialism that Lenin and Marx would of smiled upon. All those countries never even tried to become a socialist democracy. I find that your examples are not the best ways of expressing how socialism was a failure. All these countries are not true socialist nations and never attempted to be a true socialist nation. They just used socialism as a way of getting around what they really thought.

Actually Western Europe is a social democracy.

And they are not "stagnating" either. They have a higher standard of living than the US. Nice try though Kandhar.

And Gandhi: I might support a violent revolution. But the conditions would have to be right. Certainly not now.
 
Kelzie said:
And Gandhi: I might support a violent revolution. But the conditions would have to be right. Certainly not now.

Count me out.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
Count me out.

Wow there's a shocker. :lol:

Seriously. Oppressive government, killing citizens willy nilly, and all peaceful options have been met with force and death. You'd just sit there and take it?
 
Lenin once said socialism needs democracy how humans need oxygen(or something like that)
That was Trotsky. Nice quote though.

In my opinion there hasn't been a form of socialism that Lenin and Marx would of smiled upon
Venezuela? Yugoslavia?

Would anyone hear support a violent " Socialist Democracy" revolution?
Maybe. I don't know. Gandhi, did you support the American Revolution? The French Revolution? The Russian Revolution? Well..scratch that last one, very polarized subject..but you know what I mean.

North Korea is one of the poorest countries in the world
Tell me how North Korea cares about the "social" or "democratic" needs of it's people? I can call a red ball blue, and tell everyone around me it's blue, but that doesn't mean it is. North Korea isn't communist, socialist, democratic, it isn't even a sane government. It's run by a short man in Aviators with a power fetish.

Socialist Democracy is NOT communism. It's not Marxist Socialism.
 
V.I. Lenin said:
Tell me how North Korea cares about the "social" or "democratic" needs of it's people? I can call a red ball blue, and tell everyone around me it's blue, but that doesn't mean it is. North Korea isn't communist, socialist, democratic, it isn't even a sane government. It's run by a short man in Aviators with a power fetish.

Tee hee...:lol: It's funny cause it's true.
 
Kelzie said:
Wow there's a shocker. :lol:

Seriously. Oppressive government, killing citizens willy nilly, and all peaceful options have been met with force and death. You'd just sit there and take it?

Forgive me it was my impression we were talking about a Socialist Democratic revolution in the US.
 
V.I. Lenin said:
Maybe. I don't know. Gandhi, did you support the American Revolution? The French Revolution? The Russian Revolution? Well..scratch that last one, very polarized subject..but you know what I mean.

I can support their ideas though hardly their methods. Ask me if I support the Indian Revolution or the Civil Rights movement... Go on... Go on... :lol:
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
Forgive me it was my impression we were talking about a Socialist Democratic revolution in the US.

Well, I guess we were. But I precluded it with the stipulation that the circumstance would have to be correct.

Damn, those were some big words. Maybe that thar schoolin' is rubbing off. :lol:
 
I can support their ideas though hardly their methods. Ask me if I support the Indian Revolution or the Civil Rights movement... Go on... Go on...

You probably don't, I already know that :mrgreen: Yeah, both those movements were great, but they came about from violence. Violence led to nonviolence. Violence is the locomotive of history. Sad but true.

Forgive me it was my impression we were talking about a Socialist Democratic revolution in the US.
Pfff..I'd support one, but wouldn't be optimistic.

Damn, those were some big words. Maybe that thar schoolin' is rubbing off.
Shh...you'll hurt yourself. Go complain about milk or cheese. Let the big boys talk. :2razz:
 
Kelzie said:
Well, I guess we were. But I precluded it with the stipulation that the circumstance would have to be correct.

Damn, those were some big words. Maybe that thar schoolin' is rubbing off. :lol:

Okay, Kelzie gets the curious award!

zoofoo.jpg
 
V.I. Lenin said:
You probably don't, I already know that :mrgreen: Yeah, both those movements were great, but they came about from violence. Violence led to nonviolence. Violence is the locomotive of history. Sad but true.

What is the locomotive of today? We are the ones that decide that. So decide.

Pfff..I'd support one, but wouldn't be optimistic.

I think we live in a democracy where if we get people to want it the people can get it.

Shh...you'll hurt yourself. Go complain about milk or cheese. Let the big boys talk. :2razz:

:eek:
 
Holy crap. That dog looks like a monkey!

What's a curious award? Do I get a gold star? Or an "A"? Cause that's all I really care about.
 
wxcrazytwo said:
Okay, Kelzie gets the curious award!

zoofoo.jpg

That might in fact be the most frightening thing I've laid eyes on.
 
Kelzie said:
Holy crap. That dog looks like a monkey!

What's a curious award? Do I get a gold star? Or an "A"? Cause that's all I really care about.

holy crap you are making me laugh. I can tell..
 
V.I. Lenin said:
Shh...you'll hurt yourself. Go complain about milk or cheese. Let the big boys talk. :2razz:

:shock: You know, just because you have a Russian accent doesn't mean you can say whatever you want.

You have to be a vegan too. Then they'll let you say anything. :lol: And I'm going to have the last laugh when you get osteoperosis from all the milk you're drinking.

Wait a sec....


And those devils your using in your sig? Yeah, I put em there. I can take em away. Then what would you have? Nothin. That's right. Nothin. I want you to think about that. ;)
 
wxcrazytwo said:
holy crap you are making me laugh. I can tell..

Sooo...still waitin for that "A". And actually, if you could give me a "good job" too, I would appreciate it. My entire reason for being in school. Right there.
 
Kelzie said:
Sooo...still waitin for that "A". And actually, if you could give me a "good job" too, I would appreciate it. My entire reason for being in school. Right there.

"C" the light in your dome is still dim! :lol:
 
wxcrazytwo said:
"C" the light in your dome is still dim! :lol:

Now, see it was funny till you insulted me.

Your dog-monkey sucks.
 
Z.D. said:
Kandahar

In every one of those countries however, it was dictatorship.

That's not true, India was a socialist democracy from the early 1950s to the early 1990s, and wallowed in poverty the entire time. Almost immediately after it liberalized its economy in the early 1990s, it started to grow.

Presently, many Western European countries are socialist democracies, as is Israel. After less than 15 years of experimenting with socialism, many of them are already beginning to see that it is not sustainable in the long-term and are having serious problems with economic growth.

Latin America has been primarily governed by democratic socialists for decades, and the economic problems are too numerous to mention all of them.

Z.D. said:
Lenin once said socialism needs democracy how humans need oxygen(or something like that). In my opinion there hasn't been a form of socialism that Lenin and Marx would of smiled upon. All those countries never even tried to become a socialist democracy. I find that your examples are not the best ways of expressing how socialism was a failure. All these countries are not true socialist nations and never attempted to be a true socialist nation. They just used socialism as a way of getting around what they really thought.

What about Israel and France and Germany and Spain? How does their democratic socialism radically deviate from the perscription, other than the fact that it doesn't work very well?
 
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