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Social Security Is Not 'Insurance'

Cold Highway

Dispenser of Negativity
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Notice that neither political party proposes letting people opt out of Social Security, which exposes the lie that your contributions are set aside and saved. After all, if your contributions really are put aside for your retirement, the money is there earning interest, right? If your money is in your “account,” what difference would it make if your neighbor chooses not to participate in the program? The truth, of course, is that your contributions are not put aside. Social Security is simply a tax. Like all taxes, the money collected is spent immediately as general revenue to fund the federal government. But no administration will admit that Social Security is nothing more than an accounting ledger with no money. You will collect benefits only if future tax revenues materialize as hoped; the money you paid into the system is long gone.


The government sponsored ponzi scheme will only go on for so much longer until it collapses. It will be real interesting to see the reactions when it does.

Social Security Is Not 'Insurance' by Ron Paul
 
one of the biggest problems with SS (other than the fact that the tards in control have raped the funds) is that there are people getting SS bennie checks who never paid into the system and people who have collected far more than they ever paid in.

15-20 years from now when I am "eligible", I'll get raped and my bennies will be crappy because I'll get prorated because I will actually have additional retirement incomes.
 
Yeah. What about Gore's "locked box" approach? It's one more example of how badly government "works" for us. But liberals sitll cling to the idea that bigger and bigger government is the answer to all our problems. No, big government IS the problem. Especially when they snieak around in the dark like a bunch of Peeping Toms and pediphiles like Oregon congressman Earl Blumenauer who doesn't want liberals to "crow" over or email supporters about Obama bringing back the Death Panel provision in the health care law through a back door executive order.
 
This is beyond perfection. An article by Ron Paul from lewrockwell.com. Not one financial stat in the entire article... not a one. Just more extremist rhetoric that could have been written by people who opposed the program when it was proposed in the Thirties.

That sound you hear is flushing.
 
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This is beyond perfection. An article by Ron Paul from lewrockwell.com. Not one financial stat in the entire article... not a one. Just more extremist rhetoric that could have been written by people who opposed the program when it was proposed in the Thirties.

That sound you hear is flushing.

this, ladies and gentlemen, is a true blue specimen of the ad hominem species. note how instead of presenting any kind of counter logic, figures of his own, or even attempting to discredit FDR's own Justice Department (which argued pretty much the same thing that Paul is), the ad hominemist utilizes subjective-negative attack and then fades.
 
this, ladies and gentlemen, is a true blue specimen of the ad hominem species. note how instead of presenting any kind of counter logic, figures of his own, or even attempting to discredit FDR's own Justice Department (which argued pretty much the same thing that Paul is), the ad hominemist utilizes subjective-negative attack and then fades.
Then allow me to second market's objection.

The article does not contain any statistical or apparently factual information and isnt written by someone who has any notable experience or education on the subject and the site itself is known for publishing rant-esq articles by such luminaries as Wendy McElroy, Cindy Sheehan, James Bovard, Ilana Mercer, and Loretta Nall, and those are just the ones I recognize off the top of my head. The site itself is a heavily slanted libertarian/conservative site that draws many of it's articles from members or friends of it's creator's formerly chaired organization, the Ludwig von Mises Institute.

It's basically a rant held on a site dedicated to libertarian/conservative rants. As such, I dont see a reason to take it seriously.
 
Then allow me to second market's objection.
As such, I dont see a reason to take it seriously.
What main points in the article require statistics though, to make the claims it made? If there are none, why would you object?

Secondly, you make the claim that it's not factual information. Yet you provide no evidence to back this up. Why is that? It's better to ignore posts you find absurd, than to post absurd reasoning as to why you object....

This stuff can all be verified on Wikipedia

Trust fundMain article: Social Security Trust Fund
Social Security taxes are paid into the Social Security Trust Fund maintained by the U.S. Treasury (technically, the "Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund", as established by 42 U.S.C. § 401(a)). Current year expenses are paid from current Social Security tax revenues. When revenues exceed expenditures, as they have in most years, the excess is invested in special series, non-marketable U.S. Government bonds, thus the Social Security Trust Fund indirectly finances the federal government's general purpose deficit spending. In 2007, the cumulative excess of Social Security taxes and interest received over benefits paid out stood at $2.2 trillion.[75] The Trust Fund is regarded by some as an accounting trick which holds no economic significance. Others argue that it has specific legal significance because the Treasury securities it holds are backed by the "full faith and credit" of the U.S. government, which has an obligation to repay its debt.The Social Security Administration's authority to make benefit payments as granted by Congress extends only to its current revenues and existing Trust Fund balance, i.e., redemption of its holdings of Treasury securities. Therefore, Social Security's ability to make full payments once annual benefits exceed revenues depends in part on the federal government's ability to make good on the bonds that it has issued to the Social Security trust funds. As with any other federal obligation, the federal government's ability to repay Social Security is based on the power to tax and the commitment of the Congress to meet its obligations.
In 2009 the Office of the Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration calculated an unfunded obligation of $15.1 trillion for the Social Security program. The unfunded obligation is the difference between the present value of the cost of Social Security and the present value of the assets in the Trust Fund and the future scheduled tax income of the program. In the Actuarial Note explaining the calculation, the Office of the Chief Actuary wrote that "The term obligation is used in lieu of the term liability, because liability generally indicates a contractual obligation (as in the case of private pensions and insurance) that cannot be altered by the plan sponsor without the agreement of the plan participants."[76][77]


Wow. Did you catch that? The Chief Actuary makes it clear that it's an obligation, NOT a liability. Obligation indeed. Private companies could be held to liability, and wouldn't fund massive debt spending, and would be voluntary. But government?

Where are you facts now, hoplite.

Compared to my insurance, I pay voluntarily, have market choice, it is not used to fund massvive government overspending, is contractually liable to me, I can start a company today to compete with it, etc.
SS on the other hand, is involuntary, is funded by taxation, is not contractually liable to me, is used to fund government debt spending, I cannot compete with it, I cannot readily get rid of it, etc.
 
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Then allow me to second market's objection.

The article does not contain any statistical or apparently factual information and isnt written by someone who has any notable experience or education on the subject and the site itself is known for publishing rant-esq articles by such luminaries as Wendy McElroy, Cindy Sheehan, James Bovard, Ilana Mercer, and Loretta Nall, and those are just the ones I recognize off the top of my head. The site itself is a heavily slanted libertarian/conservative site that draws many of it's articles from members or friends of it's creator's formerly chaired organization, the Ludwig von Mises Institute.

It's basically a rant held on a site dedicated to libertarian/conservative rants. As such, I dont see a reason to take it seriously.

Actually its a Libertarian site, the writers regularly attack conservatives. In my years of reading Lew Rockwell the only conservatives that write for him are Cold War and Nixon era relic Pat Buchanan and Paul Gotfried (a younger verison of Buchanan).
 
The government sponsored ponzi scheme will only go on for so much longer until it collapses. It will be real interesting to see the reactions when it does.

Social Security Is Not 'Insurance' by Ron Paul

It'll be resuscitated like Fannie May.
I swear the gov sees it's credit card like a pair of shock-paddles.

*CLEAR!!*
*ZAAAP*

Or maybe they think they're like Scottie on the Enterprise?
"I just can't do it, Capt'n - I just don't have the po'er" . . and then they swoop in and save the day.

But in reality they're like Christopher Iacovino . . . or even Bruce Ivins.

Like a rabid dog - they really just need to be put down.
 
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This is a weird thread that's taken some unexpected turns for me. In the end i agree with Chevy and Ron, it's obviously not insurance, not when Bill Gates and Warren Buffet get payouts. However Hoplite is right, this is a bad argument. Social Security does have money in it, around $2.7 Trillion i believe as of the last report. Which brings up another question which I love to propose to the Keynesians because they contradict themselves 90% of the time.

Every year since 1983 (with the exception of 2010 because of an accounting error) social security has pulled money out of the system. That is to say it taxed more than it paid out, as it is designed to do, and this has resulted in $2.7 trillion just sitting there. To put that in perspective, in 2010 we paid $350 billion in unemployment benefits, the highest paid in one year ever. Why don't we set up social security to take care of this for us rather than deficit spending. In years of high unemployment we offer early retirement for some individuals. This would open up positions and ease the unemployment situation. This would add liquidity to the system that the government wouldn't have to pay interest on, and we wouldn't have to print new dollars to pay for it. Then as the economy recovers we make the requirements more stringent so that we save up money for the next recession. Absent this solution, social security becomes a drain on the system, pulling money out from what is spendable. To make matters worse we advocate a payroll tax holiday, essentially doing the same thing, but paying for it through debt. Why pay for a program with $2.7 trillion in reserves with debt? Think about this idea, think about the values you hold dear, and tell me your answer. Is it more important that the top 10% get an extra couple hundred a month after retirement? I'm confused, I'd like to know what you all think.
 
This is a weird thread that's taken some unexpected turns for me. In the end i agree with Chevy and Ron, it's obviously not insurance, not when Bill Gates and Warren Buffet get payouts. However Hoplite is right, this is a bad argument. Social Security does have money in it, around $2.7 Trillion i believe as of the last report.

no, it has 2.7 in treasuries. they lent that money to congress assuming that in the future Congress would have budget surplus enough to pay them back....


....you see us running 2.7 trillion in surpluses any time soon?
 
no, it has 2.7 in treasuries. they lent that money to congress assuming that in the future Congress would have budget surplus enough to pay them back....


....you see us running 2.7 trillion in surpluses any time soon?

The US government does not need surplus's to repay SS. It would have to take on different debt to repay the debt to the SS fund.

Much like if your current mortgage lender will not renew your mortgage, causing you to find a new mortgage lender. All of which would cause the US to pay more in interest payments, and that is about it
 
Hoplite, no response?

You come in and drop those socialist bombs and then scamper out? Surely with a name like "Hoplite", you can stand your ground for a bit and mix it up, no? Seriously, you have a good head on your shoulders, let's flex it.
 
The US government does not need surplus's to repay SS. It would have to take on different debt to repay the debt to the SS fund.

Much like if your current mortgage lender will not renew your mortgage, causing you to find a new mortgage lender. All of which would cause the US to pay more in interest payments, and that is about it

if we weren't already borrowing massive sums of money that is correct; but simply issuing another 2.7 Trillion to pay out Social Security means that we can't borrow for other functions, meaning those functions must be cut.
 
Hoplite, no response?

You come in and drop those socialist bombs and then scamper out? Surely with a name like "Hoplite", you can stand your ground for a bit and mix it up, no? Seriously, you have a good head on your shoulders, let's flex it.
What more is there to say? It's a rant and I simply brought up that fact; it isnt some scholarly article that would prove an actual point. It's basically just a rant with no more validity than anyone else's rants here.
 
i guess the author just assumed that the fact that social security isn't insurance was common knowledge.


after all, that's what the FDR administration argued before the Supreme Court when they instituted it.


see: Steward Machine Company v. Davis , Helvering v. Davis; which were handed down on the same day and handled the unemployment and old age benefits respectively.


Before the Court, the argument was that the revenue collected by the new taxes imposed by the SSA would be paid to the Treasury and not earmarked for any specific purpose.
 
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