• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

So, you're fed up with both parties

Let all of us be honest with ourselves for once. There is no perfect party anywhere. Humans are fallible and therefore party's will be fallible as well. It is a human condition that has forever existed and will continue to exist forever.

From the moment we are born we are faced with choices and generally neither of the choices is perfect. As such, we need to choose the best of the choices possible. It is just like choosing your mate. You choose who has more good than bad and marry that person, knowing full well that there will always be disagreements and arguments in your life. If you have more good than bad, you have chosen well.

We have two choices right now and those are Republicans or Democrats and no other "viable" ones. You need to choose one based on which one is best for you personally. Nonetheless, you know full well that happiness will never be complete with either party............just like a marriage..............and unless you want to live alone in an island, you need to choose even when it is a constant pain to do so.

You make a valid point, but it's about the topic of pointing out that there are basically two choices for president, and people should choose between them, not choose neither, and that's not really what the thread is about.

While the OP agrees with you that they should choose one of the two (and suggests Biden), the topic is, where should they turn to for an alternative to R and D main parties, and discourages picking the Libertarian Party, and encourages supporting the progressives.
 
You make a valid point, but it's about the topic of pointing out that there are basically two choices for president, and people should choose between them, not choose neither, and that's not really what the thread is about.

While the OP agrees with you that they should choose one of the two (and suggests Biden), the topic is, where should they turn to for an alternative to R and D main parties, and discourages picking the Libertarian Party, and encourages supporting the progressives.
The two-party false dichotomy is very harmful to the country. I don't know how to fix it other than to implement something like instant runoff voting. Example:

I agree with 80% of Candidate A's platform.
I agree with 60% of Candidate B's platform.
I agree with 30% of Candidate C's platform.

With the current system, I have to vote for Candidate A and hope he/she wins. Or if it looks like Candidate A has no chance, I might hold my nose and vote for Candidate B instead (since Candidate C is not a good choice for me). With votes split between Candidates A and B, we get the "Perot Factor" where Candidate C might win even though their policies have minimal popular support overall.

But with instant runoff voting, I can vote Candidate A as my #1 choice, and candidate B as my #2 choice (and so on). If Candidate A does poorly at the election, my #2 vote for Candidate B goes into effect and I still have a voice for someone who represents most of my positions. This would also help to address the harm caused by "one-issue voters" who couldn't care less what a candidate stands for as long as they agree with the "most important" issue according to them.
 
I encourage all liberals to vote third party. Its the only way.
 
He has no chance of doing anything but help get Donald Trump reelected. Standing by your principles is counter productive to your pincipals.


Jo Jorgensen - Wikipedia

He looks like a whimpy girly man, oh wait that could be because he is actually a woman.

Thanks for providing you have no clue what you are talking about.
 
Last edited:
I encourage all liberals to vote third party. Its the only way.

...only a math-challenged republicrat hasn't figured out that the stinking bankster puppet republicans and democrats are just about EQUALLY 'liberal' with other people's money...

....we need an honestly different 'second party' before republicrats yack about a 'third party'... republicrats!... ugh!.. :cuckoo:
 
How about NO PARTY? It would be so much better for the American public if all legislators voted independently without towing some stale and self i serving party line. United 'they' stand, which pits them against all who are not in the 'they' group.
 
Across the country the rat party has dominated major city governments for decades. They control every aspect of city and local government including the mayors offices, DAs office, City Council, budget, police force, education, housing, and economic develop and they have completely ****ed over those cities and destroyed the black American communities. Today idiot leftists across the country rage on about the need to vote, and vote for democrats...the same corrupt worthless ****wits that they have supported for decades and that have ****ed everything up in the first place. And you think the answer to solving the problems in this country is to keep voting for the piece of **** politicians that have been in office at every level for 3, 4, even 5 DECADES.

****ing brilliant.

Even if it was a matter of voting for BETTER democrats, that would be something. But the leftists will keep voting for the same worthless corrupt pieces of ****. And you DARE talk about Libertarian candidates and policies?

As of now I will be voting for Jo Jorgenson. I hope they hold debates and I hope they let her have a seat at the table.
 
He has no chance of doing anything but help get Donald Trump reelected. Standing by your principles is counter productive to your pincipals.

Bzzt. Jo is a she.

And double bzzt: Trump and Biden are two sides of the same coin- no way will I vote for either of them. Standing by my principles is the way to go.

Maybe the Libertarians are failing in getting their message out. So what are some good sources to learn about the Party.

Check out Libertarian Party | The Party of Principle

The reason Libertarians cant get the message out is because the MSM is deliberately ignoring them.

...in my experience, many of the sharper 'big L' 'Libertarians' left the party/lost their excitement when 'THE LP' was apparently taken over and trashed by a small bunch of miserable gd fool republicans, who in 2008 nominated for president a stinking 'pro-war on drugs' republican butthead named bob barr... many of the smart people were outraged and left the party and all the gd republican fools stayed.... leaving a concentration of gd republican/'conservative' fools who effectively control the party... it's so bad now that even rotten republican liars like glenn beck and alex jones openly call themselves 'libertarian' without any protest from LP 'leadership'... the party is effectively a toilet for the stinking republican party....

...just a thought...

Libertarians are a very varied bunch, I would say moreso than either the Dems or GOP, you have both far right and far left Libertarians within the same party. While this is a problem when it comes to overall unity I think there is enough compromise within to move forward on a lot of topics. The problem is that the LP can hardly match the unfair contributions that the Dems and GOP are generating.

There needs to be limits on campaign financing for all sides. With a level playing field I think the LP can make huge strides.
 
Bzzt. Jo is a she.

And double bzzt: Trump and Biden are two sides of the same coin- no way will I vote for either of them. Standing by my principles is the way to go.



Check out Libertarian Party | The Party of Principle

The reason Libertarians cant get the message out is because the MSM is deliberately ignoring them.



Libertarians are a very varied bunch, I would say moreso than either the Dems or GOP, you have both far right and far left Libertarians within the same party. While this is a problem when it comes to overall unity I think there is enough compromise within to move forward on a lot of topics. The problem is that the LP can hardly match the unfair contributions that the Dems and GOP are generating.

There needs to be limits on campaign financing for all sides. With a level playing field I think the LP can make huge strides.

I voted for Ron Paul in 2008 because I couldn't bring myself to vote for McSame or Obama.
Never regretted that vote either. You have to follow your own voice, and nobody has the right to tell you that you're wrong.
 
Jo Jorgensen - Wikipedia

He looks like a whimpy girly man, oh wait that could be because he is actually a woman.

Thanks for providing you have no clue what you are talking about.

Bzzt. Jo is a she.

That shows you just how little I give a **** about Libertarians.

And double bzzt: Trump and Biden are two sides of the same coin- no way will I vote for either of them. Standing by my principles is the way to go.

Nope! Not even.

Check out Libertarian Party | The Party of Principle

The reason Libertarians cant get the message out is because the MSM is deliberately ignoring them.

You can say that ten more times, it never going to make me give a ****.

Libertarians are a very varied bunch, I would say moreso than either the Dems or GOP, you have both far right and far left Libertarians within the same party. While this is a problem when it comes to overall unity I think there is enough compromise within to move forward on a lot of topics. The problem is that the LP can hardly match the unfair contributions that the Dems and GOP are generating.

Well then you, more than anyone should want trump out of office.

There needs to be limits on campaign financing for all sides. With a level playing field I think the LP can make huge strides.

Yep to the first sentence, nope to the second; the LP will never get the respect you think it deserves.
 
Bzzt. Jo is a she.

And double bzzt: Trump and Biden are two sides of the same coin- no way will I vote for either of them. Standing by my principles is the way to go.



Check out Libertarian Party | The Party of Principle

The reason Libertarians cant get the message out is because the MSM is deliberately ignoring them.



Libertarians are a very varied bunch, I would say moreso than either the Dems or GOP, you have both far right and far left Libertarians within the same party. While this is a problem when it comes to overall unity I think there is enough compromise within to move forward on a lot of topics. The problem is that the LP can hardly match the unfair contributions that the Dems and GOP are generating.

There needs to be limits on campaign financing for all sides. With a level playing field I think the LP can make huge strides.

Thanks for the link. Interesting read. One thing I found a bit puzzling is the statement on National Defense and statements on taxes.

"We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression"
"Libertarians advocate for voluntary exchange, where people are free to make their own choices about what to do with their lives, their time, their bodies, their livelihood, and their dollars.

If Americans want to give money to the government for one reason or another, they should be free to do so. If Americans prefer to spend their money on other things, then they should be free to do that also."

Without seeing any research on projected revenue from "volunteering" to give money to the Feds, I highly doubt that enough funds would be collected to have an adequate military for defense.

Some things I agree with, others I don't.
 
Its funny that the people who spew hate against Libertarians dont know a thing about what they stand for. This OP is a direct example of it.

Of course, when it comes to libertarians, it might not be against the lip service they claim, but rather their actions that they are judged.
 
Growing older, I have become much more progressive, putting a lot of value on the New Deal. I praise SCOTUS decisions like Brown, Roe v Wade, Lawrence, Obergefell and the ruling on ACA while barking at Citizens United, Heller and Masterpiece Cakeshop.

In short, I am now far less conservative than in the past and hold the opinion that libertarian is simply something selfish people in their twenties can like. I am not a fan of socialism, per se, but certainly do not see a problem with government providing safety nets and stepping in to restrict the power of money in politics, media, and labor (minimum wages, right to organize, regulations and oversight like OSHA, EPA etc. are all good things, IMO). In other words, I am OK with the government assisting on social issues, especially as they pertain to civil rights, health and well being.

Working extensively in automation has also taught me to respect the idea of guaranteed income at the expense of capital, which in my opinion has acquired far too much power over the past 30 years. We see that in the growth of income/wealth disparity, where evermore productivity is taken out of the sweat of workers who see ever smaller pieces of the pie while the owners of capital rake in monstrous gains. There should be limits on both sides of that equation, of course, but right now the balance is out of whack.



I actually support a lot of those things to SOME extent, as well, but the mainstreamers of the democrat party intend to do NONE of that and you can see it by how two faced they are about things... allow riots and have bodyguards for themselves but stop church gatherings as if it were an enemy camp trying to kill them. THEY support THEIR corporate masters for the most part as well as some republicans and they aren't ABOUT to give you free stuff for all of that. they MIGHT pay it lip service but they will not do it. instead, their GOAL is to erode your rights as a citizen and gain more control. we can see that by NONE OF THEM considering their constitutional limitations during this covid crisis among many, MANY other reactions they have had.
 
Thanks for the link. Interesting read. One thing I found a bit puzzling is the statement on National Defense and statements on taxes.

"We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression"
"Libertarians advocate for voluntary exchange, where people are free to make their own choices about what to do with their lives, their time, their bodies, their livelihood, and their dollars.

If Americans want to give money to the government for one reason or another, they should be free to do so. If Americans prefer to spend their money on other things, then they should be free to do that also."

Without seeing any research on projected revenue from "volunteering" to give money to the Feds, I highly doubt that enough funds would be collected to have an adequate military for defense.

Some things I agree with, others I don't.

Welcome to the LP! The movement isnt a monolithic one, so there's plenty of disagreements on all the core issues.

As far as defense goes, here is my view: I am willing to pay taxes for national defense, but they need to follow a non interventionist foreign policy, which is one of the standard creeds of the LP.

Most of our military expenditures is due to maintaining a global presence, but with the LP that will be changed radically. We ought to close all our overseas bases and follow a policy of isolationism: dont get involved in foreign wars or maintain overseas bases.

Without these kinds of costs, then the military budget can be paid for reasonably with a low tax rate. ;)

Of course, when it comes to libertarians, it might not be against the lip service they claim, but rather their actions that they are judged.

What actions are those?

That shows you just how little I give a **** about Libertarians.
So you dont give a **** about Libertarians yet youre gonna tell me how to vote? :roll:
 
Welcome to the LP! The movement isnt a monolithic one, so there's plenty of disagreements on all the core issues.

As far as defense goes, here is my view: I am willing to pay taxes for national defense, but they need to follow a non interventionist foreign policy, which is one of the standard creeds of the LP.

Most of our military expenditures is due to maintaining a global presence, but with the LP that will be changed radically. We ought to close all our overseas bases and follow a policy of isolationism: dont get involved in foreign wars or maintain overseas bases.

Without these kinds of costs, then the military budget can be paid for reasonably with a low tax rate. ;)



What actions are those?


So you dont give a **** about Libertarians yet youre gonna tell me how to vote? :roll:

I'm just say'n IF you want a Nation left to vote for Libertarians in ... vote Biden/Harris.
 
Welcome to the LP! The movement isnt a monolithic one, so there's plenty of disagreements on all the core issues.

As far as defense goes, here is my view: I am willing to pay taxes for national defense, but they need to follow a non interventionist foreign policy, which is one of the standard creeds of the LP.

Most of our military expenditures is due to maintaining a global presence, but with the LP that will be changed radically. We ought to close all our overseas bases and follow a policy of isolationism: dont get involved in foreign wars or maintain overseas bases.

Without these kinds of costs, then the military budget can be paid for reasonably with a low tax rate. ;)



What actions are those?


So you dont give a **** about Libertarians yet youre gonna tell me how to vote? :roll:

Look at your actions, and figure it out.
 
The two-party false dichotomy is very harmful to the country. I don't know how to fix it other than to implement something like instant runoff voting.

There are two main solutions. One is the voting change. The other is to limit the power of the two main parties to use money for massive advantage, making the playing field more equal.
 
I actually support a lot of those things to SOME extent, as well, but the mainstreamers of the democrat party intend to do NONE of that and you can see it by how two faced they are about things... allow riots and have bodyguards for themselves but stop church gatherings as if it were an enemy camp trying to kill them. THEY support THEIR corporate masters for the most part as well as some republicans and they aren't ABOUT to give you free stuff for all of that. they MIGHT pay it lip service but they will not do it. instead, their GOAL is to erode your rights as a citizen and gain more control. we can see that by NONE OF THEM considering their constitutional limitations during this covid crisis among many, MANY other reactions they have had.

We could discuss the flaws of the mainstream Democrats, but there are two points that address it.

One is that the Republicans are much worse, and the other is that the progressives are the only viable faction that support good policies.
 
There are two main solutions. One is the voting change. The other is to limit the power of the two main parties to use money for massive advantage, making the playing field more equal.
The 2nd solution could see votes split between similar candidates A and B, and unpopular Candidate C could end up winning with only 30% of the public approving.
 
...in my experience, many of the sharper 'big L' 'Libertarians' left the party/lost their excitement when 'THE LP' was apparently taken over and trashed by a small bunch of miserable gd fool republicans, who in 2008 nominated for president a stinking 'pro-war on drugs' republican butthead named bob barr... many of the smart people were outraged and left the party and all the gd republican fools stayed.... leaving a concentration of gd republican/'conservative' fools who effectively control the party... it's so bad now that even rotten republican liars like glenn beck and alex jones openly call themselves 'libertarian' without any protest from LP 'leadership'... the party is effectively a toilet for the stinking republican party....

...just a thought...

My biggest surprise was when certain libertarians went full nazi around 2016. Still i congratulate those who still reject such a shift. Some people get so pigheaded that they would rather blame people of color for the fact their ideology is not going to happen...
 
I'm just say'n IF you want a Nation left to vote for Libertarians in ... vote Biden/Harris.

Youre wrong. There will always be an America, so your scare tactics wont work on me.

Look at your actions, and figure it out.
Youre mad because Libertarians refuse to fall in line with your lefty fascist worldview, we get it.
 
I'm just say'n IF you want a Nation left to vote for Libertarians in ... vote Biden/Harris.

Sure because Libertarians are going to naturally support a ticket headed by a man who railroaded a generation of blacks into prison and his two-fer who was so happy to put people there, she concealed evidence as to keep an innocent man locked up.
 
Back
Top Bottom